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Seanad Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 15 Feb 2022

Vol. 282 No. 12

An tOrd Gnó - Order of Business

Today's Order of Business is No. 1, motion regarding the approval of the appointment of a member of the Legal Services Regulatory Authority, to be taken on the conclusion of the Order of Business, without debate; No. 2, motion regarding Planning and Development Act (Exempted Development) Regulations 2022, back from committee, to be taken on the conclusion of No. 1, without debate; No. 3, Electricity Costs (Domestic Electricity Accounts) Emergency Measures Bill 2022 - Second Stage, to be taken at 4.45 p.m., with the opening contribution of the Minister not to exceed ten minutes, contributions of group spokespersons not to exceed eight minutes and those of all other Senators not to exceed five minutes, with the Minister to be given not less than ten minutes to reply to the debate; and No. 4, motion regarding the report of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Environment and Climate Action on the carbon budget under the Climate Action and Low Carbon Development Acts 2015 to 2021, to be taken on the conclusion of No. 3 and to conclude after 60 minutes, if not previously concluded, with the opening contribution of the Minister not to exceed six minutes, contributions of group spokespersons not to exceed seven minutes and Senators may share time, with the Minister to be given not less than five minutes to reply to the debate.

I congratulate the Cathaoirleach and thank him for the lovely event this morning to mark Seanad 100. It was very special to have Senator Norris and former Senator and former President Mary Robinson reflecting on the Seanad's role in society and politics and speaking about some of the issues that have been raised in the past and that we have to deal with now. The one element that really stuck out for me was the word "passion". Former President Robinson spoke about the need for passion when articulating the subjects we speak about. She spoke about the importance of climate change and how we in the Seanad will need to be a very strong voice on this.

On that note, with regard to the retrofitting grants which were announced two weeks ago and are incredibly welcome, I want to make several points. If administered correctly, they could be transformative in respect of the energy we use and its cost. With regard to the loans the Government has indicated it will give, I would like to see them rolled out through An Post. There is a post office in practically every community. We are looking at ways to make the post office continue to be a central space in every area. It is important that the loans be administered through it. We need to cut down on red tape and administration. I know from those using the SEAI system they find it very difficult. This is not what it should be.

Over the weekend there was a debate about the National Women's Council's decision not to include women from Government parties at a rally outside Leinster House on 5 May to celebrate International Women's Day. It is important to note that here. The caucus has a good working relationship with the National Women's Council. In any debate moderated by any group there should be a balance of female representation. The journey to get here is hard enough. I ask that women Oireachtas Members from non-Government parties support this also.

The last point I want to raise concerns the cost of living, including for students. I heard contradictory remarks over the past week from the Tánaiste and the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science on whether third-level fees would be reduced. Let us be clear: they absolutely should be but not at the expense of the universities and other third-level colleges, which have been managing on a shoestring for the past decade. The Cassells report was sent to the European Commission for an economic cost analysis of the three options put forward. I understand the analysis has been submitted to the Department. It is important that we have a debate on it and ensure that we do right by our universities and other third-level colleges. Most important, we should do right by our students by ensuring they all have an opportunity to go to college. I ask the Leader for a debate on that.

I thank the Chair for the great Seanad 100 event this morning. It was absolutely wonderful to see former President Mary Robinson and Senator David Norris in full flow.

I welcome the extension of the consultation period requested regarding the flood relief measure planned for Ballinasloe. It is excellent news that the OPW is going to co-ordinate an in-person public event. This will be crucial in making sure communities in our area can engage on the huge development, which is to involve flood walls and embankments around the town. It is really great news.

I had the opportunity yesterday to meet the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science, Deputy Simon Harris, who visited Galway, particularly Galway–Mayo Institute of Technology, GMIT, which on 1 April will become the brand new Atlantic Technological University. Some €430 million in Government funding was announced by the Minister yesterday. There are four funding streams under that. The funding will be divided between the traditional university sector and our brand-new technological universities. There will be a specific fund for further and higher education, which is crucial. Just as the Minister has expanded the CAO form to reflect further and higher learning and the apprenticeship programmes, we need to ensure our universities have the funding to match. When we were in GMIT, we got to meet Dr. Orla Flynn, the institute's recently appointed president. She was appointed just in the past two years. We were brought on a tour of the various areas in the college and noted the investment that has taken place through Enterprise Ireland, particularly in respect of medical imaging. There was a jobs announcement in Galway yesterday. It is crucial to see how jobs announcements and investments are linked to investment in research, because the companies are working with all those involved in research and development in the universities. It is important that we recognise that investment in third level results in jobs, income and a better standard of living for people in regional areas. The technological universities appearing in the west and in regional towns across the rest of Ireland are crucial to our development.

I join other Senators in thanking the Chair, the Seanad Office, all the staff of the Communications Unit, particularly Mr. Mark Mulqueen and Ms Verona Ní Bhroinn, and all others involved in organising the events of today. It was a fabulous achievement. We were asked to film a little bit afterwards and to give a sound bite, and I was particularly happy to be able to say both Ms Mary Robinson and Senator Norris have been two remarkable Senators. Ms Robinson was an Independent Senator, just as Senator Norris is today. It was interesting that Ms Robinson, having served three or four terms as an Independent Senator, became a Labour Party Senator. David Norris has been a Senator continuously since he was first elected. Ms Robinson was elected in 1969 and Senator Norris in 1987. What a remarkable story. I thank the Chair. I hope we will have a really exciting year of celebration. I know I speak for everyone in saying that there is not a day on which we come in here without being conscious of the enormous privilege it is to represent the people in the Houses of the Oireachtas, particularly the Seanad.

There was to be a motion taken in the House this week on a Dublin citizens' assembly. In fairness to the Leader, she contacted all of us to say it would be deferred for a week. Between now and then, I do not want to talk about the motion or the substantive issue but to highlight two or three concerns. We have 183 councillors in Dublin: 63 in Dublin City Council, 40 in Fingal County Council, 40 in South Dublin County Council, and 40 in Dún Laoghaire–Rathdown County Council. It is important that we have a system. The proposed amendment suggested 12 councillors. How does one select 12 councillors from that total? I simply do not know. More important, I am anxious that we represent people across the board, of all parties and none. Perhaps the D'Hondt system could be used, but that is a matter for councillors.

I am also concerned about gender. If the Minister is suggesting there are only going to be 12 people out of 183, it is a bit silent about gender and how we are selecting them. I think we should fight for a bigger majority. Remember these sitting county councillors are politicians too and they are in the Minister's party and everyone else's parties or are Independent. We need a better deal for them. We want them at the heart of a citizens' assembly.

The issue of a mayor is another one about which I am concerned. I am not concerned about the mayor but the motion talks about having regard to an independent mayor. The people of Dublin rejected a directly elected mayor among the four councils, although one or two of them accepted it. It was scrapped so we need to be clear. If we are having a citizens' assembly, we need an open debate and to let the assembly decide what it wants to do. Let us not preordain the outcome. Perhaps we might reflect on that in the next few days. How will we get gender representation in this group and how will we have representation among city and county councillors?

I reiterate my thanks to the Cathaoirleach and the team behind the event earlier today. It was really lovely.

We are good at labelling. Of course, this applies to all walks of life but today I want to challenge our understanding of two ways in which we label farmers. One is loaded with positive assumptions, the other much less so. One is the label "productive or commercial farmer" while the other is the somewhat belittling term "hobby farmer", which is often used to describe those who farm on a part-time basis. Regarding the term "productive farmers", we are referring to farmers who farm full time to produce as much meat, milk or grain as possible. Traditionally, that was seen as an undisputed positive but we now realise that some of that production has come at a cost and many such farms put significant pressure on our natural environment. Take something as basic as hedges. Data from Teagasc has indicated that a staggering 90% of hedges on intensive farms are classified as low quality, exhibiting issues such as impoverished ground flora, low species diversity and gappiness. Increasingly, there are other pressures on such farms. Rising energy, fertiliser and feed costs have impacted on farmers across the country. Our pig sector is in significant difficulty and our grassland farmers are facing very challenging decisions in terms of fertility inputs this year.

Perhaps we should not be quite so quick to consider the drive for more and more production as an unquestionable good, particularly now when we allow the term "hobby farmer" to be tossed around almost as an insult because most farmers in Ireland are in fact part time and there is nothing wrong with that. They manage their land and farming enterprises like any other but they rely on off-farm income to survive and raise their families. Of course, many of these farmers are not in receipt of the big EU direct payments. Often this is because they were not farming in a particular way during the reference years at the start of this century when we decoupled payments from livestock numbers and moved to land-area-based payments. Many of these farmers may then have been breeding and providing quality stock to other farmers who are in the position to bring the animals through to slaughter but it is the latter rather than the former who have largely benefited from the past 20 years of payments.

However, with the levelling of EU direct payments in the form of convergence and other measures, it is quite likely that we will see more part-time farmers in the future. Some bemoan that but I believe it should be welcomed and encouraged. Some of the best farmers I know are part time. They love what they do and because they are not wholly reliant on their farms for income, they can afford to be more flexible, experimental and innovative. I do not think it is really important whether a farmer is full time or part time. What matters is that farmers appreciate that their land must do more than just produce a profit at any cost. Profit at the expense of the environment is just too costly for us all so let us stop praising it and start acknowledging those farmers who see themselves as true custodians of the land - as managers of enterprises, yes, but also as caretakers who are just passing through determined to leave to the next generation land that has been nurtured, regenerated and enriched. Such farmers are engaging in real productive farming.

Before I came into the House, I had the misfortune to listen to the Joe Duffy show. It is not something I do very often. Comments were made about the Irish Women's Parliamentary Caucus. As long as the caucus excludes parliamentary and secretarial assistants and all the other women who work in these Houses, it is exclusionary and, therefore, I will not participate in it.

Monday was the anniversary of the Stardust fire 41 years ago.

There was a large gathering of relatives who met to commemorate their dead loved ones and also to call on this Government to stop putting obstacles in the way of their search for justice. Over the last eight months, the State has put a series of obstacles in their way, the most recent one relating to jury selection. There is an expert working group report on jury selection that is 20 years old. Successive governments have done nothing to act on its recommendations. One of the things the report says clearly is that the way juries are selected for inquests is deeply problematic. We are now facing the largest inquest in the history of the State and are talking about the possibility of An Garda Síochána selecting the jury when it is itself a party to the inquest. When the Taoiseach unveiled a bench at the INMO headquarters at the former Richmond hospital yesterday, he said he was listening to the families. I hope he meant that and was not giving them false hope. Under no circumstances will the families accept An Garda selecting the jury or accept the alternative the Taoiseach mentioned in the Dáil two weeks ago, which would be to have a judge-led inquest with no jury at all. Let us not forget that there have already been two judge-led inquiries into what happened in the Stardust nightclub and that both came out with deeply concerning findings. One actually found that arson was probable and, although this finding was eventually reversed, it tarnished the entire community of north County Dublin and suggested that they were somehow responsible for what took place that night. I really hope the Taoiseach was not speaking out of both sides of his mouth when he gave assurances to the families yesterday.

I would also like to raise a story covered in the Irish Independent today on the back of the reply I received to a freedom of information request. It suggested that the Office of Public Works carried out works on Emo Court in Laois without the necessary derogation or licence, destroying a bat roost, before proceeding to try to cover it up and seek a licence for those works retrospectively. When the National Parks and Wildlife Service investigated the matter, did it recommend prosecution? That seemed to be the direction it was taking in the response to my freedom of information request. It seems that someone intervened with the two agencies to ensure that investigation and prosecution would not proceed.

I thank the Cathaoirleach for organising the wonderful Seanad 100 event today. There was a real sense of pride and privilege in being able to listen to Senator Norris and the former Senator and President Mary Robinson. It was really heartening to see that the light is still shining very brightly for both of them with regard to their campaigning.

I raise today the issue of the scheme to regularise the status of long-term undocumented migrants opened by the Government on 31 January. For those of us who have been arguing in this House for justice for the undocumented in this country for a long time, this is a major breakthrough. Like so many others, I want this scheme to succeed but I have serious concerns about the eligibility criteria. It appears that some of those who were previously documented but who are now undocumented will be excluded from this new Government scheme. We have to ask why that is the case. The very nature of some of the employment schemes under which workers come here means that they are tied to their employers. When such workers are injured or feel they have to leave their jobs because of harassment or appalling conditions, they not only leave their job but also lose their documented status. I particularly wish to raise the plight of 200 ex-fishers who are currently not documented. Because they were documented in the last four years, they cannot apply for the Government scheme announced on 31 January. It is not right and it is not good enough. If this groundbreaking regularisation scheme is to live up to its potential and if it is to afford a future to those who have come and made their lives here and who are working in the Irish economy or in the seas around this island, we cannot turn our backs on those workers. I am conscious that an interdepartmental review group has been set up to look at the atypical permits scheme.

This scheme was developed in 2015 on the back of Trojan work by the International Transport Workers Federation, which effectively unmasked and uncovered the appalling exploitation of workers that is happening in Irish waters and on Irish vessels, with exploited fishers working in those vessels. The review is likely to come out over the next weeks. In that review we really need to see that the process by which undocumented fishers are documented is corrected, that it is not just left to the vessel owners to document the workers and, crucially, that fishers working on Irish registered vessels are no longer tethered to their employers.

There are two distinct but related issues here. First, all workers who were previously documented and who fell out of documented status have to be eligible for the Government's new scheme. Second, it is no longer acceptable that any work permit in the State would tether an employee to his or her employer. They have to be free of their employer and free to be able to take up employment wherever else after a period of time.

I commend the Cathaoirleach and all of the staff and others who were involved in today's launch of Seanad 100. It is an exciting year ahead and it is interesting to be looking back at the past 100 years. There have been some very strong contributions and inspiration from speeches from former Senator Mary Robinson and the current longest-serving Senator, Senator David Norris.

I rise to ask for an amendment to the Order of Business. It has come to my attention that there are some significant concerns about the regulations. I believe there is a proposal that there would be a motion to approve the draft Planning and Development Act (Exempted Development) Regulations 2022 without debate today. Unfortunately, it has just come to my attention that there are some significant concerns regarding those regulations which may merit attention, debate and discussion.

Specifically of concern are those regulations for a potential requirement of a two-year vacancy in the context of exempted developments. Given the law of unforeseen consequences, we could actually see an incentive around vacancy if the promotion of vacancy was to allow, for example, exemption from planning. We do not want to create that kind of perverse incentive.

There are still concerns about some of the environmental factors around bats' roosts and nesting birds. Very importantly, and it may even be an inadvertent omission, it does seem that in respect of the areas excluded from the exemption there is a concern under Article 9(1) in our planning and development regulations, which is the piece specifically around protecting architectural conservation areas, that they are not included in the areas excluded from the exemption. There is a concern there. I am sorry not to have raised this earlier with the Leader, but it has come to my attention since. I am hoping that perhaps we might be able to table this item for another day. We will be looking at planning issues on other days. Perhaps we could at least have some debate or discussion of it, and perhaps some clarity from the Minister before we approve these regulations.

Can I clarify if the proposal is that No. 2 not be taken today?

That it not be taken today or that it not be taken without debate.

It must be one or the other.

Apologies. I ask that it would be postponed to another day, and not taken today.

That is fine. I thank the Senator.

I am open to other suggestions from the Leader.

The Leader may be aware that the week commencing 28 February to 6 March is to be Eating Disorder Week. I raised this issue previously in the House, and I know that it is one the Leader is very familiar with. Notwithstanding that the Government set aside significant amounts of money last year and this year, there is a considerable delay in rolling out appropriate services. I believe there are only three centres in the State that deal with eating disorders and offer the kinds of therapy that people need. There is one centre for adults and two for minors or those under the age of 18.

It is a huge issue which has grown in terms of numbers and impact on young people during the pandemic. It would be appropriate if the Leader could schedule for the week commencing 28 February a debate in the House on eating disorders in general, look for a response from the Government and try to understand what more we can do to action those plans.

There are issues in recruitment across the HSE but it is not good enough to say moneys have been set aside and are in place, and then leave the operational piece to wither on the vine. Reports this week from the Department of Health suggest targets are not being met in other areas of the health service. This is an important issue. There are wonderful interventions which can impact positively on the lives of those suffering from an eating disorder, get them back on track and allow them to live their lives, no different from other illnesses, particularly those with a mental illness dimension.

It is an issue that many people do not like or want to talk about, that is bedevilling our young people and that has grown through the pandemic for obvious reasons. It is one we should grapple with in this House.

I welcome the regulations before us on the exemption of commercial properties from the requirement to go through an often lengthy planning process to be converted into productive residential units for individuals and families. I assure Senator Higgins that this was subject to ample discussion at last Thursday's meeting of the Joint Committee on Housing, Local Government and Heritage, where the Minister, Deputy Darragh O'Brien, was present and all members of the committee present contributed on it.

I have campaigned for some time on the fact that vacant and derelict former public houses have been omitted from the original regulations introduced in 2018. It is now being rectified. We all know many such former pubs across the country in towns, villages and cities that are a blot on the landscape and could be put to far better use as residential units. That is what we are doing by introducing these regulations. It removes the red tape in order to bring them back into use. Since the regulations were introduced in 2018, they have delivered 1,400 residential units, including 676 in the last 12 months. We are making progress and those numbers of units should not be sniffed at. By including vacant and derelict former pubs, we will see a far higher take-up.

There are notifications regarding section 57 that have to be negotiated with the local authority in the event that a property is a protected structure or has architectural merit. Those protections are inbuilt, as is the necessity to be in accordance with existing regulations, be it fire or size requirements for units.

This is a welcome move by the Government that has come from evidence on the ground of issues that have been fed up through the Oireachtas joint committee to the Minister. Action has now been taken and it is a perfect example of how the system can and does work. We often give out when it does not work but this is an example of the system working.

I join Senator O'Loughlin. I have called in this House before for a debate on the future funding of higher education. We are no further along that track. While the announcement is welcome that will result in the reduction of fees for students at third level, it cannot be at the expense of core funding for higher education institutions. We need clarity on the future funding of those institutions.

I raise the question of approximately 100 Tesco security workers.

These are workers who are employed directly by Tesco. Last Tuesday they were summoned into all of the stores throughout the country to be informed that a decision had been taken centrally to outsource their jobs to OCS security services. In many cases, many of these workers, who are all around the country, have been working for decades with Tesco and frequently have to deal with much antisocial behaviour. We know that, during the pandemic, retail workers and those working in our retail environments were front-line workers. Some of these workers were attacked and experienced physical abuse.

For Tesco, which normally has a reputation of being a good employer, simply to call in the 100 workers around the country - the unions were not notified about this - and essentially tell them the jobs would be outsourced or Tesco may - the word used was "may" - be able to find them a job within the existing stores is the sharpest example I have come across in a long time of HR and industrial relations practice. Tesco is a highly profitable store. Tesco is making billions here in Ireland. It generally has a reputation as a good employer. I understand the unions, Mandate and SIPTU, were due to meet with Tesco management on Thursday.

We need to send out a very clear message that it is totally unacceptable that this sort of sharp industrial relations practice is being engaged in and that we, as public representatives, are hugely appreciative of the front-line retail workers and, particularly, those security workers in our supermarkets over the past two years, but indeed over many years. I would hope that, in raising this issue here, it would communicate our anger and annoyance at the approach of Tesco management.

I wish to raise a couple of issues. Senator Byrne mentioned Tesco, but the Irish Farmers Association, IFA, and all involved in the horticultural sector have been looking to engage with Dunnes Stores with regard to prices, especially the price of vegetables. We have seen over the past 24 hours the IFA holding a dispute at two Dunnes Stores centres. I call on Dunnes Stores to engage with the IFA and discuss these issues. We have seen, particularly in the pig industry and, as I said, the horticultural industry, that these are extremely challenging times, and it is only right farmers get a fair price for what is an excellent product. That needs to be highlighted today. Dunnes Stores is an Irish company and prides itself on being an Irish company. We need to talk to the local farmers who produce for the company.

I also wish to raise a housing issue. It would have been on "Drivetime" a number of days ago. There was a discussion with residents in Colmcille Terrace in Granard in north Longford. Four years ago, I brought the Minister at the time, Eoghan Murphy, to Granard, where funding had been sought for a long number of years to upgrade a significant number of derelict houses in that area. We secured funding, met the residents and a process started between Longford County Council and Tuath. It started in early 2019, we are now at February 2022 and not a stick of work has been done. There are boarded-up houses with dampness coming through the walls to where people are living. There are rats and cats. It is not acceptable in 2022 that this happens and people are living in these conditions.

I ask the Leader to write to the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage to get me an update on when in 2022 the works will start on this project, when it will be completed and when the residents can live in what should be up to standard housing. This is not acceptable in this day and age.

It was International Epilepsy Day yesterday. I have soft spot for it because I know so many people with this condition. Epilepsy Ireland had a very catchy campaign saying to time the seizure, keep them safe and stay with them. Therefore, it is "Time, Safe, Stay". We are all about to be empowered to know how to look after a person who is having a seizure. There are 40,000 people in Ireland who have epilepsy, so the chances are we could come across someone going through a seizure.

It is most important that we all empower ourselves to look after people with epilepsy, to be aware of the signs and to make sure that they feel safe in society. I call on the Department of Social Protection to amend the requirements for free travel and to build some flexibility into free travel schemes. If a person with epilepsy has a seizure, they are not permitted to drive for six months. That has a huge impact on many people's lives. It often puts them out of education and work because they cannot afford the cost of travel. It would be a good way to empower people to allow them to continue their day-to-day normal life as they would have done prior to having a seizure. For many reasons, it would be really beneficial for the Department of Social Protection to look at introducing flexibility into the free travel scheme. As the Leader is aware, the scheme is very rigid. I ask for the introduction of built-in flexibility and for allowances to be made to make it reasonable in certain cases, such as epilepsy.

Today, I want to suggest a measure to ease the cost of living for families in a small but significant way. One of the hardest things about living on a tight budget is that you do not have room for the unexpected or out-of-the-ordinary costs. That can drive families to make impossible choices. We need to stop those scenarios from arising where we can. I am of the belief that the €75 levy for attending children's urgent care centres should not be there in the first place. There is one such centre in Blanchardstown that opened a few years ago. It is part of Children's Health Ireland, CHI. A new centre opened recently in Tallaght. These state-of-the-art centres are run by CHI and its paediatric emergency medicine teams. Urgent care centres treat conditions such as sprains, strains, broken bones, vomiting and diarrhoea, minor burns and scalds, fever in babies older than 12 weeks and small cuts and injuries. Of course, the levy is there to try to prevent people from abusing the system, but the centres are there for parents who are worried about their children. If they are worried, they should be seen without the imposition of a levy. Cost should never be a barrier to urgent healthcare for children and families. There are some exemptions from the levy, including medical card holders, members of the Defence Forces and their families, and people receiving services in respect of prescribed infectious diseases. Children can be referred to these centres by their GPs. Why should they have to go through their GP in order to be referred to an urgent care centre? That just puts even more pressure on GPs. We are already extending free GP care to those aged seven and under. We need to do it for children of all ages attending these centres. One final point that I wish to make is that the opening hours of the centres are 9 a.m. to 5 p.m., Monday to Friday. The hours need to be extended. I know that there are reasons for the current hours, including resources. I have some suggestions on how we can help with that. However, in general, the model was supposed to provide services seven days a week. That is what we should be working towards.

Hyperemesis gravidarum is a condition that around 10% of women suffer from during pregnancy. Most people who have never been through it call it morning sickness. It is nothing like morning sickness. It is a severe illness that women have for nine months of their pregnancy. It probably became well known because Kate Middleton had it the first time she had a child. Currently, there are three drugs available in the market to treat people who suffer from the condition. Two of them are not available in Ireland. One of the drugs, Cariban, is available in Ireland, but it is unlicensed. At the moment, people have to purchase this drug. It costs them about €45 a week. For some people, the cost over the term of a full pregnancy is around €3,000. It is a severe cost for those going through pregnancies. The cost of it actually impacts the decisions of women on whether to have a child. For those who cannot afford the drug, going through pregnancy without it is totally and utterly unbearable. I raised the issue nine months ago, ironically, and nothing has really changed.

Will the Leader ask the Minister for Health to commit to making this drug available to women going through this in Ireland? It is a horrendous condition for the women who have to suffer through it for nine months. The argument always made is that Cariban is unlicensed. The State has put provisions in place to support people in the context of other unlicensed drugs. It must be possible to find a way for the Department of Health and the Minister to make an exception for the small number of women who go through these very difficult pregnancies. The condition can be alleviated through the use of this drug, but the associated cost is a heavy one for people to bear. In fairness, we would in turn save on the cost of women having to go to hospital as a result of suffering from this condition. Many women cannot work because it is so difficult. The least we can do is support women when they are going through pregnancy to bring new life into the world.

Today is a happy day. Two children were born in Kyiv. Their Irish parents travelled there in recent days for the birth of their much longed-for babies. Other babies will be born later this week. They have been born into a context where our Government has advised people not to travel due to the impending possibilities that could occur in Kyiv. Often in this House we get up and give out about officials, the Government and Ministers, and we hustle and hustle. Throughout the increasing tensions in Ukraine, though, I have been incredibly proud of our Department of Foreign Affairs. It has been extraordinary. Its staff have been in daily contact with all the parents registered with the Department. Those parents have been provided with support and welfare support. The Department has helped in every possible way and it is trying to move mountains to ensure the parents are reassured as they go to Ukraine to try to bring home their much-longed-for babies. Many of these women have come through cancer. Some of them were part of the 221+ cervical cancer group. These are people who have had an arduous journey to get to this stage. That they are arriving in a place where their baby is going to be born and terrified that it is going to be a conflict zone is unbelievably upsetting for them.

I pay tribute to the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Coveney, and to all the officials in the Department of Foreign Affairs because they are full of compassion. For people in that position, officials can hold such power over lives. The Department's officials are going to extraordinary lengths to demonstrate how much they are on the side of Irish people. It is a tremendous tribute to the Minister and the Department. I just want to acknowledge that here and to congratulate those who are mammies and daddies today. How exciting this is, and we look forward to welcoming them home at Dublin Airport.

The Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage, Deputy Darragh O'Brien, has responsibility for local government. I commend the Leader for withdrawing the motion on the creation and establishment of the two citizens' assemblies that were to be on the Order Paper for Thursday. I ask that, in the interim, we have a debate on citizens' assemblies. I was a proud member of the Constitutional Convention and I never missed a meeting. The concept is an important part of our participative democracy. The motion on citizens' assemblies, however, if it had been brought to the House on Thursday, was one that would have done a great disservice to our local government representatives.

In the context of the contribution of Senator Boyhan this morning, I ask that we have a real debate about local government and the role of councillors. Regarding the remarks of former President Robinson today concerning climate change, it has forced significant change on all of us, but particularly on local government and how it delivers. I refer to aspects such as sustainable development, modal shift and active travel. It is appalling, however, that the Government would shoehorn the role of local government in Ireland generally into a motion on a citizens' assembly for a directly elected mayor of Dublin. That does a huge disservice to our local government members and to local government.

I do not dispute the need to have proportionality in representation.

With all due respect to my Dublin colleagues, there should be a representative from all regions of the country when discussing the future of local government. I repeat we cannot and should not shoehorn the future of local government into a motion on a directly elected major for Dublin when we should be having a specific citizens' assembly on the future of local government. Given that the Taoiseach was such a fan and played such a significant active role in the plebiscite that took place in Cork, I ask that he consider the role of a directly elected mayor for Cork city in the future.

I draw the attention of the House to a report launched yesterday by Women's Aid, which documents the findings of a survey it conducted with the support of Red C Research and Marketing into relationship abuse, specifically relationship abuse among young people aged between 18 and 25 in Ireland. The research was done over the course of two years and the findings are stark. It has prompted Women's Aid to launch a campaign entitled "Too Into You".

The findings tell us that more than half of our young people have experienced or known someone who has experienced intimate relationship abuse. One in five young women and one in 11 young men in Ireland have suffered intimate relationship abuse. In all cases where women were subjected to intimate relationship abuse, their abuse was perpetrated by someone who was very close to them, a former or existing intimate partner. For young women, the abuse lasted longer than one year, almost one and a half years. One in six young women and one in 13 young men have been subjected to coercive control by a partner or an ex-partner. What coercive control means is a persistent, insidious controlling pattern of behaviour that intrudes on the person's independent sense of self and self-security. The findings are stark. Of the young women affected, 51% first experienced the abuse before they were 18 years of age. That robbed those young women and girls of their childhood.

Copies of the report have been circulated to all Members of the Oireachtas. It is incumbent on all of us to draw public attention to the findings of this report, raise awareness about what constitutes abuse, support victims of abuse and let them know it is okay to speak out and that help is available, and respond to them. I commend Women's Aid on the report and also the campaign it is launching and I encourage every Member of the House to support it.

I commend Women's Aid on the phenomenal work it has done. I totally agree with my colleague on the impact coercive control has and how it can be devastating for any young woman or man who is living in such a situation. I commend Women's Aid on the great work it does.

I am here today to-----

Formally second my amendment.

I formally second the amendment to the Order of Business proposed by my colleague Senator Higgins.

The Senator did her job with aplomb. I call the Leader.

While Senator Black did not raise the issue this afternoon, I have the date she sought. It is in the diary with a date in the next couple of weeks.

I thank Senator Black for seconding the amendment to the Order of Business. Unfortunately, I will not be in a position to accept it as the recommendations have to go through today.

Both Senators Black and Fitzpatrick raised the Women’s Aid report issued yesterday. Its findings are shocking when we think about our young women and men who were canvassed for their information and experiences.

We have a long way to go to mind people and to change the culture in this country and every country, because it is not unique to Ireland. The campaign is worthy of support from all of us. I look forward to it.

I concur with Senator Buttimer's thoughts. It probably got through the initial schedule last week because I did not read to the end to see that it was about far more than just establishing a citizens' assembly regarding a mayor for Dublin city. There is absolutely no way that we will have just an hour-long debate on the future of local government. It is far more complex than that and should not be determined for the entire country by 100 citizens and politicians from Dublin. That is going back to the drawing board. Once it is reworded, I will come back and offer it to everybody again. We will agree on exactly how long is required for it.

Senator Seery Kearney, with such a beautiful smile, talked about the two babies who have been born and the babies waiting to be born in Kyiv. I commend the Senator for her leadership in the last week. I know that she knows this system inside-out. She also knows the experiences that people are going through. The empathy and leadership that the Senator showed during the week are a credit to her and the community she represents. It is a small but growing community. It is certainly worthy of the Senator's membership. I congratulate her.

As he has done on many occasions, Senator Ahearn raised hyperemesis and the drug in Ireland which is prescribed, bought and paid for by families, Cariban. It is unlicensed, which has meant historically that the reimbursement scheme has not been able to reimburse families. I am pleased to announce that last week, following suggestions from both female and male Senators, the Minister for Health set up a working group to try to find a way around the fact that it is unlicensed so that we can reimburse women. I am sure that where there is a will, there is a way.

Senator Currie said that the cost of living for families can be directly impacted by the €75 charge when people need to bring their children to an urgent care centre where she lives, in Dublin 15. It seems like a lot of money to have to pay to attend an emergency care centre in the first place. I will bring it to the Minister's attention.

Senator McGreehan talked about International Epilepsy Day, which was yesterday. Coincidentally, I had the privilege of meeting Epilepsy Ireland on Friday with regard to a new planned project that it has in Fingal. I was shocked to hear that there are 67,000 people in Ireland who are currently managing epilepsy, with just three doctors. The dearth is staggering. People have raised the lack of neurological nurses in the past. We cannot monitor some of these patients more than once a year because we have no nurses and only three doctors. We have a long way to go to look after the 67,000 people and their families, who rely on their good health.

Senator Carrigy spoke about the impasse between Dunnes Stores and the productive farmers in our pig and horticultural industries. I am not sure that we really get that five entities in this country determine what we eat and what is on our supermarket shelves week-in, week-out, and what they pay to the producers. If they do not like the prices that the producers offer, they just go to different countries and get cheaper products. We row into Dunnes, Tesco, Lidl, Aldi and SuperValu weekly, thinking that we are buying an Irish product that is produced by our farmers and that they are making money from it. They are not. They are hanging on by their fingernails. I commend Senator Carrigy for raising that issue.

As a former Minister for Social Protection and Employment Affairs, I am gobsmacked by the matter that Senator Malcolm Byrne raised. He is right to call it sharp practice. Tesco is a worthy employer. It is sharp practice for it to try to downgrade and outsource the 100 security guards who have worked for and served it incredibly well, for many years in some cases. I will contact SIPTU and Mandate after the Order of Business to offer our support and see if we can do anything to help them. There is no way that those people should be made redundant, which is presumably what will happen. Outsourcing those jobs has to be illegal.

Senator Cummins raised the building regulations and highlighted the lengthy debate that happened on the committee report last Thursday.

On Senator Dooley's contribution, I will gladly organise a debate for the week beginning 28 February for eating disorder week. It is a silent issue, probably because many families do not want their children to be known as victims. One of the most prolific ways in which women in this country self-harm is by controlling their eating. It is very harmful but somewhat hidden. A wonderful book, The Raggy Dolls: Stories of Survival from Anorexia Nervosa, was written by a psychologist who specialises in this area. He produces very good podcasts. We need a Government response and action plan, and I will happily organise that debate.

Senator Higgins and others spoke about Seanad 100 today. It was a wonderful event. I pay particular credit to all of the officials who supported the Seanad and the Seanad 100 centenary celebrations. A lot of effort went into it and it will be a wonderful celebration of the diverse and sometimes diverging views we share. It highlighted the amount of work and thoughtful co-operation that happens in this Chamber, something that does not happen elsewhere to the same extent.

Senator Sherlock spoke about the regularisation of the migrant scheme and her concerns about the eligibility criteria. I will pass those concerns on to the Minister.

Senator Boylan spoke about the expert group on jury selection today and the response to a freedom of information request she received with regard to the Office of Public Works, OPW. I will bring that to the attention of the Minister so that the Senator can get a direct response.

The Minister of State, Senator Hackett, spoke about hobby farmers. I have to be honest. I am not sure I would 100% agree with her contribution because to my mind the reason most people are part-time farmers in this country is because they cannot earn a living from being full-time farmers and have children, wives and homes to support. We have a long way to go to be competitive and not pitch farmers against each other and multiples, and definitely not farmers against the State and the Government that supports them.

Senator Boyhan spoke about Seanad 100 and the Dublin citizens' assembly. He expressed his concerns about the amendment that has been withdrawn.

Senator Dolan spoke about Seanad 100 and her joy on watching Mary Robinson and Senator Norris, and the passion they displayed when they spoke so eloquently earlier today. She spoke about her visit to GMIT.

Senator O'Loughlin, Seanad leader for Fianna Fáil, spoke about how the Seanad can show its leadership on climate change, retrofitting grants and having daily and weekly conversations about how Government actions have an impact and can change people's lives. She also spoke about the National Women's Council of Ireland, NWCI, rally on 5 March. I thank her for raising the issue. I also thank Joe Duffy for talking about this on the radio today. Women work supremely well when they work together in unison. That does not necessarily mean we all have to have exactly the same political or ideological views. Our power is when we come together and fight and campaign for something. It is ironic Senator Boylan said she will not participate in the women's caucus in Leinster House because it is exclusionary but will be quite happy to participate in the NWCI rally in a couple of weeks even though it is exclusionary. This is a State-funded body that is supposed to represent all women in Ireland, not just a select few with some select views. I have to be very honest: this is not the first time I have genuinely felt it does not represent me.

Senator Higgins has proposed an amendment to the Order of Business: "That No. 2 not be taken today." Is the amendment being pressed?

Amendment put and declared lost.
Order of Business agreed to.
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