I welcome the Minister for Justice to the House. I thank her for coming to Seanad Éireann this morning.
Nithe i dtosach suíonna - Commencement Matters
Court Accommodation
Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire. Níor theastaigh mé í a chur faoi bhrú. Chuir mé an cheist seo isteach i mBéarla inné. Cé go bhfuil mé ag úsáid na Gaeilge anois, níl mé ag súil le freagra i nGaeilge uaithi ar an ócáid seo muna bhfuil sí in ann é sin a thabhairt. Glacaim leis nach raibh aon réamheolas aici faoi seo.
Is mian liom labhairt faoi fhorbairt an ionaid nua cúirte dlí teaghlaigh ag Lána an Chrochaire, nó Hammond Lane mar a thugtar air i mBéarla, anseo i mBaile Átha Cliath. Tá an suíomh seo suite in aice leis na Ceithre Cúirteanna. Fógraíodh an fhorbairt sin don chéad uair in 2014 tar éis blianta de cháineadh ó dhlíodóirí nach raibh na cúirteanna dlí teaghlaigh i mBaile Átha Cliath oiriúnach nó fiú sábháilte. Theip ar an Rialtas ag an am an tionscadal seo a chur chun cinn agus tá poll ollmhór sa talamh ag an suíomh seo le breis agus deich mbliana anuas. Níor léiríodh riamh aon phráinn maidir leis an bhforbairt seo. Tá an fhorbairt seo ardaithe agam go minic le roinnt Airí Dlí agus Cirt síos tríd na blianta, an Teachta Flanagan agus Frances Fitzgerald ina measc, ach ní dhearnadh aon dul chun cinn ar an ábhar riamh. Bhí mé an-sásta gealltanas a fheiceáil sa chlár Rialtais maidir leis an bhforbairt seo. Bhí mé dóchasach go dtabharfadh an Rialtas nua tús áite don ionad nua dlí teaghlaigh, atá ag teastáil go géar le blianta fada anuas, faoi dheireadh. Go luath tar éis an Teachta McEntee teacht i mbun oifige mar Aire Dlí agus Cirt, d'fhógair sí go raibh maoiniú faighte aici chun na cúirteanna teaghlaigh nua a fhorbairt faoi dheireadh. Cuireadh fáilte ollmhór roimhe sin ach, ón méid atá ar eolas agam, níl aon dul chun cinn déanta ar an suíomh, faraor. Dá bhrí sin, is mian liom mionsonraí a fháil ón Aire.
Tá an-imní orm faoin easpa dul chun cinn. Tá géarghá leis an ionad cúirte dlí teaghlaigh seo ó dhaoine a úsáideann na cúirteanna ag am an-deacair ina saol agus ó na daoine a oibríonn ann go laethúil, na dlíodóirí agus na hoifigigh chúirte san áireamh. Tá na daoine a úsáideann na cúirteanna teaghlaigh an-leochaileach. Táim ag déanamh tagairt do mhná atá ag fulaingt le foréigean teaghlaigh.
Táim ag tagairt do pháistí atá faoi chúram an Stáit agus tuismitheoirí atá ag iarraidh caomhnóireachta, cead cúirte agus íocaíochtaí cothabhála a shocrú tar éis briseadh caidrimh. Chomh maith leis sin, is timpeallacht oibre an-strusmhar é do dhlíodóirí, agus cuireann an easpa áiseanna níos mó struis ar dhaoine. Níl aon seomraí feithimh ann, mar shampla, agus is minic a tharlaíonn coimhlint dá bharr sin. Ionsaíodh roinnt dlíodóirí teaghlaigh agus breithiúna de bharr deacrachtaí a thagann chun cinn go rialta.
Luaigh coiste dlí agus cirt an Oireachtais forbairt an ionaid chúirte sa tuarascáil a foilsíodh le déanaí, inar mhol sé dul chun cinn práinneach a dhéanamh ina leith. Chomh maith leis sin, tá muintir an cheantair sin tinn tuirseach de bheith ag féachaint ar an suíomh ollmhór tréigthe seo. Faillí oifigiúil Stáit sa cheantar atá ann. Tá páistí ag fás aníos sa cheantar agus déantar faillí iomlán orthu leis an suíomh tréigthe seo. Níl sé ceart ná cothrom. Téann sé seo i bhfeidhm ar mhuintir na háite agus orm féin mar Bhaile Átha Cliathach, mar Sheanadóir agus mar dhlíodóir. Bheinn buíoch as eolas cuimsitheach faoi stádas reatha na forbraíochta seo. An bhfuil an t-ionad fós ar an mbóthar ceart le haghaidh oscailt i gceann trí bliana?
Tá an-bhrón orm ach beidh mé ag caint i mBéarla, if that is okay.
I thank Senator Clfford-Lee for raising this important matter today and for giving me the opportunity to provide clarity on some issues. I reassure her that we are on track, progressing and going through the stages. As the Senator has rightly outlined, funding of €100 million was allocated, so we intend to make sure that money is spent and that the hole in the ground is filled as soon as possible. I was down near the site only recently and could see it. I imagine those who are looking at it all the time are wondering if it will ever happen, but I reassure Senator Clifford-Lee that it is very much still a priority and we want to make sure this happens.
Construction of a purpose-built family law court complex at Hammond Lane is a key project in the National Development Plan 2021-2030, as I have just mentioned. It is envisaged this will be part of the overall public private partnership, PPP, justice sector project, which, as the Senator and other colleagues are probably aware, will also see the construction of two new Garda stations in Clonmel and Macroom. The complex will be built with the specific needs of family law users in mind, and the intention is that it will provide the modern facility where family law cases can be held in a much more dignified, secure and non-threatening environment with all the range of support services at hand. It will replace the present inadequate and fragmented facility for family law which is stretched across central Dublin at Dolphin House, Chancery Street, Phoenix House and in the Four Courts. Again, I was in Dolphin House not that long ago and, as Senator Clifford-Lee rightly said, the seating arrangements, where people are on top of each other and there is no space, and the fact there are no separate rooms is not adequate, particularly when dealing with such difficult and often traumatic and complex situations and where children are involved and space is needed to be able to support them.
Following approval by the courts board, the Courts Service submitted a final preliminary business case. The Department of Justice, as the approving authority under the public spending code, provided approval in principle to the Courts Service and to An Garda Síochána for the other two projects in June 2022 and to proceed with the project under that particular PPP mechanism. Formal project structures are being established with the various stakeholders, including the Office of Public Works, OPW, and the National Development Finance Agency, NDFA, to progress the project as quickly as possible. This is subject to detailed planning and design work, which is currently being undertaken by the OPW architectural services. It is being informed by consultations undertaken with the relevant stakeholders operating in the area of family law, legislative developments and outputs from family law modernisation initiatives. There is a lot of engagement happening now to make sure the design is as it needs to be and, because it started some years ago, it is as up to date as possible and, essentially, will work in parallel with the developments that are happening at a legislative basis and in terms of our family law justice plan. Once design work is complete, the Part 9 planning process will begin.
I am determined to overhaul the operation of the family justice system to ensure we have a more efficient and user-friendly family court that puts families and children in particular at the centre of its work. This is a key commitment in my justice plan . We have a commitment to enact the family court Bill. This is to create a dedicated family court within the existing court structure to provide for court procedures that support a faster but also less adversarial resolution of disputes. The purpose of the legislation is the establishment of the dedicated family court, to improve levels of judicial expertise and training in family law matters, and to streamline family law proceedings, thereby making them more user-friendly and less costly. The general scheme of the family court Bill is with the office of Parliamentary Counsel at the moment and drafting is in progress. I very much hope to have it brought to Cabinet and to be able to publish it in the coming weeks.
Once the design stage is approved, the project will go to planning, and once planning is approved, it will then go to make sure we have the right costings, after which it will go to tender. All of those stages are moving along. As I said, we have approved to the most recent stage in June. I hope we will have the design finalised by the end of this year. We can then go to planning where there is obviously a timeline in place that I cannot necessarily predict, but once the planning process starts, there is a set timeline where people can object and we have to go through all of that. Once that happens, then the costing is approved. We are moving in the right trajectory. It is just making sure we can, and I am keeping the pressure on so that continues as quickly as possible.
Cathain a bheidh dul chun cinn déanta ar an suíomh sin? Níl sé soiléir ón méid a dúirt an tAire. An bhfuilimid ar an mbóthar ceart le hoscailt i gceann trí bliana? An bhfuil aon chonstaicí ann?
Once the process continues as I have outlined, which means the design stage is approved and it goes through planning with no complications or issues - obviously we cannot predict how that will go but I assume there will not be any objections - and once the exact costing for this is agreed and it goes to tender, then we will be moving into ground and getting things moving. The year 2026 is still a target I intend to achieve and to reach, but obviously we have to go through all of these steps I have just mentioned. There are things that get in the way, but everything I am doing is to try to make sure we have as smooth and as streamlined a process as possible.
Chun a chinntiú, an bhfuilimid ar an mbóthar ceart fós?
Yes.
Go raibh míle maith agat.
Psychological Services
I welcome Minister of State at the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage, Deputy Noonan.
I thank the Minister of State for stepping in today. This is a Commencement matter on education addressed to the Minister for Education, Deputy Foley. I hope the Minister of State can relay my messages back to her. We need more psychologists in the HSE. We need them working in schools, in primary care, in child and adolescent mental health services, CAMHS, and on our children's disability network teams. I very much welcome the decision to pilot in-house mental health counselling for primary school pupils, amounting to €5 million in the budget. It is something for which I had called. We need it in our secondary schools too.
I am asking the Minister, through the Minister of State, who they are going to employ to take on these roles. There are 9,500 children waiting on primary care psychology services - an overwhelming number. Without early intervention, mild mental health issues grow, leading to bigger problems. This can be avoided with the right support and treatment. There are not enough psychologists in our children's disability network teams for our special schools. We do not have enough national educational psychologists in the National Educational Psychological Service, NEPS, or therapists in mainstream or special classes. It is acutely felt by children with autism and special needs and by their families. That is the situation at the moment before we also start to recruit for general mental health support in schools, which as I said is very positive.
I mention also that there is no mandatory training for teachers for autism in mainstream classrooms to ensure teachers are equipped to respond to the needs of children as well. It is great we are launching pilot programmes like this, that we have committed to reinstating therapists in special schools, and that we are opening buildings in our communities for children's disability network teams, CDNTs.
It is great that money was allocated in the budget that we have never seen before but if we are not fixing the problem of actual recruitment and places, then we are prolonging the problem and the pain for families. Something the Government and the Department of Education have done in this budget, to address some of the inequity around trainee psychologist doctorate programmes, was to enable counselling psychologists to access the same amount of funding and the same salary as clinical psychologists. That is good news, but educational psychologists have been left out. Why have they been left out?
I will give some figures I received from somebody who wrote to me this week and I have been dealing with this issue for a long time now. This is someone who is doing the education and child psychology doctorate at Mary Immaculate College. She has already spent €30,000 training to get to this point in her career. She is paying €10,000 in fees and is working for 330 days unpaid. Her counterpart in the clinical psychologist course gets a salary of €40,497 and 60% of her fees are covered. As part of their doctorates, these people will be based in the HSE's children's disability services, in the National Educational Psychological Service, NEPS, in the child and adolescent mental health services, CAMHS, and in the primary care psychology service. Post-qualification they will be qualified to work in any of those areas. Why do they not have access to the same funding to pay the extortionate cost when they dedicate their lives to children and educational psychology? Not only do they deserve to be paid the same, they need to be valued for what they are doing and that is part of the reason they will work in the HSE.
The Minister of State, Deputy Noonan, has four minutes to respond to the Senator.
I was aware of this issue. I had been in correspondence with a constituent about it. It seems to be an anomaly. I will give the Minister's response now, but I agree the support they provide to schools and CAMHS and critical incident support in schools is a hugely valued resource for our schools. I am taking the Commencement matter on behalf of the Minister, Deputy Foley, who sends her apologies for being unable to be here this morning.
The Department's National Educational Service, NEPS, provides educational and psychological support to all recognised primary and post-primary schools. This involves direct support in the event of a critical incident; access to national and regional support and development work to build school capacity to support students; access to a NEPS psychologist for responses to queries; and access to individual pupil casework, where there is a need, via a NEPS psychologist or through the scheme for commissioning psychological assessments.
NEPS has adopted a consultative model of service that focuses on empowering teachers to intervene effectively with pupils whose needs range from mild to severe and transient to enduring. Psychologists use a problem-solving and solution-oriented consultative approach to maximise positive outcomes for these pupils. NEPS encourages schools to use a continuum-based assessment and intervention process whereby each school takes responsibility for initial assessment, educational planning and intervention for pupils with learning, emotional or behavioural difficulties. Teachers may consult their NEPS psychologist should they need to at this stage of the process. Where reasonable progress is not made following a school's best efforts in consultation with NEPS, a psychologist will become involved with an individual child for intensive intervention or assessment. This system allows psychologists to give early attention to urgent cases and also to help many more children indirectly than could be seen individually.
In 2021 the NEPS casework service extended to more than 8,500 students. In addition, private psychologists provided assessment to schools for more than 900 students under the scheme for commissioning psychological assessment process. The NEPS support and development service reaches an estimated 25,000 teachers annually. The number of NEPS sanctioned psychologists have increased from an employment control framework base of 173 whole-time equivalent psychologist posts in 2014. Budgets 2017, 2018 and 2019 sanctioned an additional 31 posts in total. As part of a package of measures to support the well-being of school communities as schools re-opened following post-Covid-19 closures, an additional 17 psychologist posts were sanctioned. During the 2019-2020 academic year, temporary project posts were sanctioned: four for the school-inclusion model and three for the North East Inner City project.
The NEPS is led by a director supported by regional directors and senior psychologists. Currently, in the region of 225 whole-time equivalent educational psychologists deliver an excellent service to our schools. The Minister recently announced an additional 54 educational psychologists to provide services to special schools and special classes as part of budget 2023. The Department values the work of all educational psychologists across the education system and, as the Senator is likely aware, the NEPS of the Department provides a comprehensive school-based psychological service to all primary and post-primary schools through the application of psychological theory and practice to support well-being, academic,social and emotional development of all learners. NEPS provides this service to schools through casework with individual children and support and development work for schools.
The Department is conscious of the challenges in recruiting educational psychologists and has established a high-level working group, chaired by the secretary general of the Department to consider how best to support educational psychologists and ensure a sufficient supply of psychologists is available to the education sector.
Both the Department and the Minister are aware of the issue of fees for trainee educational psychologists and are working proactively and intensively to find a positive resolution for the issue.
The last paragraph is my update. I welcome the high-level working group to look at this in the round, but the issue of fees is urgent and it needs to be addressed as soon as possible for equity and for these people to feel valued. I ask the Minister of State to bring that back to the Ministers if he can.
Something else that has come to my attention is the good news that the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, announced that therapists would be reinstated in special schools and our special school in Dublin 15, Danu, has been told of its allocation which includes a behavioural therapist we have needed and wanted for a long time. However, I have now heard Fórsa has stepped in because the CDNTs have been directed to provide their most senior therapists, but we are all swimming out of the same pool. How do they do that and do all of the work they have in their CDNTs as well? We have an problem here and that also needs to be addressed. This is an issue that straddles the HSE and the Department of Education and it cannot get lost between the two. The might of both is needed to respond to the needs of children.
I will certainly take these issues back. As I said, the correspondence I received stated the Department is making every effort to try to address the issue of the training fees support for educational psychologists. It is an anomaly that needs to be rectified. It is critical for parity of the professions.
As the Senator quite rightly said, we need those supports right across the range of services for children and young people in our schools now more than ever. They are fantastic services. They offer a great range of supports to teachers, especially around critical incidents but also in general in the overall emotional well-being of the school environment.
I will take up the issue the Senator raised separately about the behavioural therapists with the Minister of State, Deputy Butler. I will bring both of these issues back to both Ministers of State on the Senator's behalf.
I believe the Minister of State, Deputy Noonan, will take Senator Boyhan's commencement matter as well.
Housing Provision
I had expected the Minister would be here but I have no issue with the Minister of State being here instead and I thank him for coming to the house to deal with this issue.
According to media reports, though not according to any politician I have spoken to, the controversial planning rules for the build to rent, BTR, apartments are set to be axed. I think it stemmed from the deliberations of the Acting Chairperson's party Ard Fheis at the weekend. A lot of media coverage was dedicated to it and to the Minister's intentions over the weekend.
I understand, again from reading media reports, that this was discussed. I welcome that decision, if it has been made. I certainly welcome that we are having a conversation about it and the direction of policy. As the Minister of State knows, a failed policy was established in 2018. While there has been some commentary about the previous Minister, which I will not get into, I remind the current Minister and the current regime that this policy has continued to today. This Government is now, at almost two and a half years, nearly at the mid-point of its term. It has continued the policy it is now saying needs to be changed and that there needs to be a better system. It is better late than never when it comes to the change, but it is important we do not lose sight of that fact.
The BTR rules were introduced by the Minister's predecessor in 2018 and, as I said, continue to be in place today. It means that apartments owned by institutional investors and developers, specifically for the rental market, do not have to comply with the minimum size standards required for homes for sale. That is the subtle difference, especially as regards floor space but also storage, which is a particular challenge. We now have a surplus of some of these units, many of which have been improved through planning, either by the planning authority or through An Bord Pleanála, but have not been developed, despite a housing crisis. We have something in the system that has been approved and yet we have the task of housing. This measure is pragmatic and I generally welcome the idea and concept behind it. As I said, I know this was discussed at the Fianna Fáil Ard-Fheis and was reported widely in the media and through television commentary.
I would like to ask the Minister of State a few questions. If we do not have the detail today, we can follow up with a supplementary question, if that is okay with him. When will the Government seek to amend the existing guidelines and changes that have been discussed? Will it be the case that developers already in the planning process or that have been granted planning permission will be allowed to continue under the existing regime? While I see some logic and understanding for building out, and under the current regime we have to have some sort of planning, we need an end game. There has to be a cut-off point where the regime has to end, if that is Government policy. No doubt, we will discuss that at the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Housing, Local Government and Heritage, and other forums within this House. Will converting existing BTR planning permissions into conventional standard units - homes - especially in the area of affordable and social housing, be considered?
I am delighted the Minister of State is present rather than the Minister. I prepared this Commencement for the Minister, which included asking him whether he could share with me his Government partner's view on this policy. Now the Minister of State is in the hot seat, which is great, and I am interested in his party's policy. I am particularly interested in Fine Gael's view on it. If he cannot address all those details today, I ask him to follow them up.
Generally, I welcome this reform. It makes absolute sense. We have to be pragmatic. No policy stays static; it has to be reviewed. This is a particularly good reform, albeit late.
I will immediately impart our own views. I share the Senator's welcome for this decision. The BTR rules were a retrograde measure and it is important they are addressed. I will give the stock response but I will also bring the specific questions back to the Minister. I was not at the Fianna Fáil Ard-Fheis at the weekend, as the Senator will appreciate.
Neither was I.
That is a pity. The Minister of State would have enjoyed it.
I am sure I would. I did not see or hear what my colleague, the Minister-----
The Minister did not hear it either.
-----Deputy Darragh O'Brien, said at that. Specifically in response to the question posed, the section 28 guidelines, Sustainable Urban Housing: Design Standards for New Apartments - Guidelines for Planning Authorities, published in 2018 and updated in 2020, identified BTR as a specific type of residential development for planning purposes, with some variation in resident support and amenity requirements, and dwelling mix and design standards, relative to apartments generally. These differences are set out in specific planning policy requirements, SPPRs, 7 and 8 in the apartment guidelines. In carrying out their planning functions, which include formulating development plans and assessing planning applications, planning authorities and An Bord Pleanála must have regard to guidelines issued under section 28 of the Planning and Development Act and must comply with any SPPRs contained within such guidelines.
Strategic housing development, SHD, permissions made to An Bord Pleanála show that, as of July 2022, the board had granted permission for 50,792 apartments, of which 12,230 were specifically BTR units at the time of permission. Of the 12,230 approved BTR units, 2,669, or 22%, have commenced on site and 9,561, or 78%, have not started. Given current site activation challenges and construction costs, this time-lag is to be expected. However, the figures serve to demonstrate that a significant quantum of BTR units have been permitted through the SHD process and remain outstanding.
In summary, despite an uncertain economic outlook and a reduction in activity in 2022, it is clear that, since 2018, the BTR market has become established and that there are a large number of outstanding planning permissions. Given the quantum of development delivered and permitted to date, there is no longer a planning rationale to retain BTR as a separate development type subject to more flexible design standards. This may be achieved by amending the section 28 apartment guidelines to remove the specific requirement that BTR is identified as a separately defined type of development with specific design standards. This amendment to the apartment guidelines would not preclude future BTR development. It would simply remove the need to describe BTR as a distinct class of development for planning purposes and require the standards for BTR development to be the same as those for all other permitted apartment developments.
It is important there would be a transition period whereby BTR proposals currently in the planning system, whether SHD or otherwise, or on which significant work has progressed and are about to enter the planning system can be progressed to a planning decision based on the transitional arrangements that will apply. It is therefore considered reasonable that amended apartment guidelines that delete SPPRs 7 and 8 would be issued before the end of 2022.
Again, I hope this gives some clarity to some of the questions. If we can come back on the other specific questions, I will get the Department to respond to the Senator directly.
I thank the Minister of State. I warmly welcome this decision, which makes sense. Nothing stays static. I would like the Minister of State to convey to the Department that it would be very helpful if we had the written statement because we have none, which is unusual for this particular issue. It would be helpful if someone from the Department could fax or email it to us this morning. I thank the Minister of State for that.
I would also like the Minister of State to take back to the Minister that it is important we go through processes. External communication is important. While it is all very good to have this idea announced at a party's national conference, there are three parties in this Government. It is important we do not speculate about policy in some media publication. We have the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Housing, Local Government and Heritage. I urge the Minister, and I would have said this if he was in the Chamber today, to come as early as possible to that joint committee to explain the thinking and, more important, the timeline of this measure. If we have agreed on this, and I presume it will be Government policy at some point and was not just a kite-flying exercise, it is important we communicate with the relevant Oireachtas committee, engage across the Government parties and the Opposition, and have a briefing on it.
Time does not stand still. We need to move fast on this. I am supportive of this measure and welcome it. I would like the Minister of State's officials to convey that to the Minister. I am genuinely supportive of the concept but let us engage with parliamentarians on it.
I thank the Senator for his supportive comments. Again, I apologise that we do not have copies of the statement. I am happy to give him my copy when we finish this morning.
BTR development was, in effect, established as a separate class of development for planning purposes arising from Sustainable Urban Housing: Design Standards for New Apartments - Guidelines for Planning Authorities. The latest market data point to a period of investment in the BTR development sector that has served to establish BTR as an element of overall housing mix between 2018 and 2022. This investment means there is no longer a planning rationale to retain BTR as a separate development-type subject to more flexible design standards.
It is important there would be a transition period whereby BTR proposals currently in the planning system, or on which significant work has progressed and are about to enter the planning system, can be progressed to a planning decision. It is therefore considered reasonable that amended apartment guidelines that delete SPPRs 7 and 8 would be issued before the end of 2022.
Again, I will take back the Senator's request for the Minister to come before the Oireachtas joint committee. That would be most useful to give clarification on this matter. We will get back to the Senator regarding the specific questions he asked.
I have been informed that no Minister is available to address Senator Boylan's Commencement matter, for which I extend the apologies of the House. I believe Senator Boylan has agreed to withdraw this Commencement matter and will submit it at a future date. Is that okay?
It is disappointing but I thank the Acting Chairperson.
It is very disappointing but it is to be hoped the Senator's matter will be taken in early course.
I take this opportunity to extend a very warm welcome to students from St. Mary's National School, Athlone, who have joined us in the Public Gallery. They came in at the end of Commencement matters, so I hope they got to see some of the action. They and their teachers are very welcome to Leinster House. Hopefully, they will enjoy their trip and it will inspire some of them to get involved in their communities and possibly stand for election some day.
Hear hear - plenty of vacancies in here.
Cuireadh an Seanad ar fionraí ar 11.11 a.m. agus cuireadh tús leis arís ar 11.30 a.m.
Sitting suspended at 11.11 a.m. and resumed at 11.30 a.m.