Seanad Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 1 Feb 2023

Vol. 291 No. 7

An tOrd Gnó (Atógáil) - Order of Business (Resumed)

Senator Maria Byrne

One of the main news stories this morning has been the 24 students who have not received school places in Limerick. My heart goes out to those students, their families and their current schools. The common application system was set up in Limerick 17 years ago when it happened that an awful lot of children did not receive school places. It has worked relatively well over the last 17 years but there is the odd year when a glitch happens. A lot of students apply for the same school and there is an over-subscription.

I compliment the Department. Earlier in the week I think about 68 students were set to receive no school place. The Department has started to work through it. I acknowledge the communication from the office of the Minister, Deputy Foley, and from the Department this morning stating that they were aware of the situation. However, this issue needs to be resolved as quickly as possible. For those 24 students, it is not a very pleasant experience to receive no letter of offer. Tomorrow they are going to receive a letter telling them to contact the schools inspector in Tusla. Those children have done nothing. They see that their classmates have received letters of offer. This needs to be resolved as quickly as possible. I ask the Leader to support my call on the Minister and the Department to resolve it as soon as possible.

Senator Paul Gavan

On the issue of the 24 children who have been refused a school place in Limerick, the stark fact is that on Thursday they are going to receive a letter telling them their application has been refused and they have no place in a secondary school in Limerick. A related factor that has been unacceptable for years, which my colleague, Deputy Quinlivan, has raised several times, is the tendency of some of the posher schools, frankly, to reject applications from people living on their doorsteps and to favour applications from people outside the city. The word I would use there is "class". There is a class distinction going on among some Limerick schools to reject local people from within the city. I call for urgent action on that issue. It is entirely unacceptable that children will not have a school place and will be told in writing that they have no school place on Thursday.

The issue of nursing home charges has come to the fore in recent days. I am calling for a debate on elder care. I do not remember Fine Gael or its sister party, Fianna Fáil, ever standing up at election time and saying they want to privatise elder care. Over the last 30 years we have gone from 80% public care to 80% private care. Some 80% of nursing homes are operating on a for-profit basis. As a trade union official I can tell the House that those nursing homes refuse to accept trade union representation. They refuse to accept workers' rights. This is not a one-off issue but one that is prevalent throughout the private nursing home sector. I do not believe the Irish people have ever been consulted about this. We need to have a serious conversation about how we can plan for elder care in the future using decent, public nursing homes. That is the future that people deserve and it is worthy of a debate. It is high time we had that debate.

Senator Ned O'Sullivan

I have heard Fianna Fáil described as lots of things but I have never heard us called a sister party before.

Senator Paul Gavan

Get used to it.

Senator Ned O'Sullivan

There is a very good article in today's edition of The Kerryman newspaper by a top journalist, Dónal Nolan, highlighting the plight of local communities trying to get by with the help of community employment, CE, schemes. This has been raised many times and we all know the CE schemes are a vital part of the social fabric of rural Ireland in particular. They keep local development and local endeavour going, whether it is cleaning graveyards, maintaining local football pitches or, as in the case of Ballylongford in north Kerry, the local laundry service. The problem is that the model and set-up of CE schemes have not kept up with the times. Most voluntary committees now are facing skyrocketing charges for their insurance, energy costs and so on, yet the funding for CE schemes has remained static at €13.80 per participant, I think. That problem is compounded by the fact that participants are becoming increasingly difficult to source. Communities find they cannot get suitable applicants. Perhaps the entry requirements should be changed as well. There are many suitable people, like Ukrainians, who would be very interested in working on CE schemes but many of them are debarred under the set-up of the schemes. I hope the Leader will bring that to the attention of the Minister and maybe we will get a discussion on it here in due course.

I commend the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Deputy McConalogue, on the statement he made yesterday in which he insisted that any group that puts forward nominees for State boards in the Department of Agriculture, Food and Marine will not be considered unless 40% of the nominees are female. That is a very important statement by him and one we all agree with. There is one flaw that I see, however. Applications for all State boards will not be accepted now from anybody over the age of 70. I know many people in the community who have great wisdom and experience and would be prepared to contribute on various State and semi-State bodies. Uachtarán na hÉireann can be over 70, as can a Member of the Seanad or the Dáil. I know one or two who are over 70.

Senator Rónán Mullen

The best people.

Senator Ned O'Sullivan

This ageism needs to be looked at. There was an excellent seminar organised here during the week by my colleague, Deputy Lawless. I ask the Leader to commend the Minister for highlighting the shortage of women on boards. However, cutting people out at the age of 70 is pretty brutal and callous and does not make sense.

An Cathaoirleach

The Senator is way over time. He has made a good point.

Senator Rónán Mullen

It was not a senior moment that caused him to go over time, either.

An Cathaoirleach

There was great latitude shown in the first week by the Cathaoirleach but it will be eroding after that.

Senator Rónán Mullen

I wish everybody a very happy St. Brigid's Day. I have great sympathy with Ciarán Mac Guill, scoláire agus fear Gaelach, writing from France in The Irish Times during the week. He writes that until now, St. Brigid's feast day has been an authentic, community celebration of the historical Brigid, a fifth century abbess who founded monasteries and contributed enormously to the growth of the early Irish church. He says that it is paradoxical that brave new secular and politically correct Ireland should indulge in the hijacking and cultural appropriation of a religious feast day. We all know what a great modern sin cultural appropriation is supposed to be. It does a disrespect to the historical St. Patrick to go on too much about myths and legends about driving the snakes out of Ireland. In the same way, looking at our proceedings here, some would say that some of them came back.

An Cathaoirleach

Present company excluded.

Senator Rónán Mullen

There is a disrespect to the historical St. Brigid whereby myths and legends that would compete with and contradict her holiness and spirituality are propounded. We should focus very much on the historical St. Brigid.

At some point, I would like a debate on media coverage of migration issues. I wonder whether such coverage is making the tense situation in parts of our country better or worse. There are many unanswered questions, no matter how one looks at it, about the terrifying report in The Irish Times at the weekend alleging an attack involving a German Shepherd dog and people wearing balaclavas. It appears that while the newspaper reported that the journalist Kitty Holland had witnessed the attack, that was not the case. At this point, there is no footage available to substantiate the claim, either of what happened or the aftermath. There are no reported or identified attackers or victims. There is a claim by the newspaper that it is worried about defamation. Perhaps the Garda is looking into the matter. We have a right to expect high standards from our media regardless of who worried we are about racist attitudes. Many people have not been to the Bunny Carr school of communication, but it does not make them racist if they have concerns that they express badly. Whether it was inadvertence, a lapse in standards, ideology or a case of overegging or exaggerating a story, this needs to be looked at. Social media abuse of the journalist in question is absolutely abhorrent. However, there is another side to this. I hope The Irish Times will look into what happened and come out with an explanation in due course. There are questions about the report that we need to ask.

An Cathaoirleach

Speaking of myths, that myth is one issue. Two minutes per Member might become another part of the folklore.

Senator John McGahon

To respond to what Senator O'Sullivan said, I do not know whether I would like to be here when I am 70. I do not know, perhaps I would. Who knows. I would have to be here for 42 years if that were to be the case.

One of the first issues I raised when I became a Member of the House two years ago was the concept of flexible travel tickets and commuter tax saving tickets. We have had various discussions with the National Transport Authority, NTA, over the past year. The goal of introducing a commuter ticket has fallen down its list of priorities. The NTA previously stated that such a ticket would be introduced in the first quarter of 2022. It went from being so close to the finish line and being ready and implemented to being so far down the list of goals and objectives that it is no longer getting a fair hearing. One of the reasons for this, which I understand and accept, is that at the time the NTA was focused on introducing the 20% cut in fares across the board and introducing the 50% cut for people between the ages of 18 and 23. These have been achieved. They have all got across the line. I will not get the NTA to change its mind by getting up in the Seanad. What will change its mind is the Minister making a direct appeal. It is not up to the NTA to decide what is its priority. This is something that will benefit commuters throughout the country. It was so close to being introduced but, for some reason relating to technology, it has not been. I accept that if we are to have a commuter ticket, it would need to be accessible across all rail and buses. Obviously, this is different in certain sectors and whether someone on a public or private bus or at a particular rail station. The reason I am raising this is because we need the Minister to tell the NTA that we need it to revisit this and that we need to really consider it being introduced. This must come from the Minister and the Department directly. This is what I hope to see.

An Cathaoirleach

I thank Senator McGahon for being on time.

Senator Robbie Gallagher

I wish to highlight a number of incentives, reliefs and supports available from the Government to businesses, individuals and families. I will start with the temporary business energy support scheme, TBESS, which provides qualifying businesses with supports of up to 40% of the increase in electricity or gas up to €10,000 per month, or €30,000 in certain cases. This scheme has been in place since last September and is administered by Revenue. Figures I came across recently have been surprising in the context of the low uptake. While 15,275 businesses have registered for the scheme, only 9,148 have to date begun to claim what they are entitled to. So far, €17.4 million has been claimed but €13.24 million is yet to be paid out. When we look at the number of claims it is clear that perhaps more needs to be done in creating more awareness among the business community of what reliefs are there.

The Government recently introduced a scheme for those paying rent for private rental accommodation whereby they can claim a tax credit of €500. The parents of a student going to college can claim it for their son or daughter. It is a good scheme and I know the Leader has been trying to highlight it and get the message out. It speaks to a larger issue. Many credits available to businesses and individuals go unclaimed. Last year it was revealed that €620 million that individuals could have had in their pockets went unclaimed. At a time when people are struggling and families are finding it tight to make ends meet perhaps the onus is on the Government to create more awareness of the various schemes and reliefs available to individuals so that people will get what they are entitled to.

Senator Garret Ahearn

I suspect the Leader is quite similar to me in that, as the parent of a young child, she has seen the work done by childcare providers across the country. Sometimes we have an old perception that they just mind children for a couple of hours until the parents return. In fact, they are educators and they do phenomenal work. Many times when my child comes home I am amazed at what he has learned during the day. The Government has recognised this and the challenges for parents with regard to costs of childcare and supporting childcare providers. This is very welcome. I hope that in the next budget it will be done again. It has made a significant difference for families throughout the country.

There is speculation that we will support child minders. This is very important. They do the same amount of work as childcare providers. We do not have enough childcare providers the country to cope with the demand for childcare. It is important to recognise the work that childminders do. They are registered legitimate businesses and they need to be recognised as such. One of the challenges for them is registering with Tusla because of the complications that come with it. For example, they could not take on a second person in their homes if they were registered with Tusla. Many of these childminders would not continue if they had to do this to be able to receive some form of support. I ask that the Department and the Minister look at it. Are they devising a scheme to support people who have childminders as opposed to childcare providers? This all come back to the fact that we do not have enough childcare providers. Many people have grandparents who step up to the mark because they cannot go anywhere else. They cannot get a childcare provider and they cannot get a child minder. We need to be able to recognise this because they play a key role. We could give them a top-up payment on their pension or a tax break of some kind. This would be important because they play a key role.

Senator Martin Conway

I very much welcome the announcement by the Minister for Finance on the extension of the temporary business energy support scheme. It has helped thousands of businesses in rural and urban parts of the country to deal with the exorbitant cost of energy. There is one flaw when it comes to businesses in rural areas that use gas and that are not on a mains or metered. Those on metered gas qualify for the TBESS. Those who do not have metered gas do not qualify. This is a clear example of discrimination between urban and rural. This was brought to my attention in recent days by a busy business in County Clare. It tried to apply for TBESS but was told it did not qualify because it was not a business with metered gas. This is an anomaly. I am sure it was an oversight but it is a discriminative situation. In comparison with urban areas, rural Ireland is being discriminated against in the context of TBESS. Imagine a situation where people who needed unemployment assistance could only get it if they lived in the city and those who lived in rural Ireland could not get it. This is the same thing. This is a system to support businesses to stay in business during the energy crisis.

The scheme should be altered to include businesses that use gas tanks or bulk tanks to support the supply of energy to their businesses. It can be done and it can be verified. People can get their gas bills from last year and submit them to show the difference in the same way one can do with electricity bills. I appeal to the Leader to contact the Minister for Finance, to rectify this anomaly as soon as possible.

An Cathaoirleach

I am sure the Senator will join with me in wishing your good wife Breege, a native of Kildare, a very happy St. Brigid's day.

Senator Martin Conway

Of course I should acknowledge St. Brigid's Day. It will be a bank holiday dedicated to my wife.

An Cathaoirleach

Senator Conway will get lots of kudos at home for that. I welcome to the Visitors' Gallery, Amanda Carney who works in the Seanad Office and who is a very valued member of staff, along with her mum Agatha Carney and her aunt, Beatrice Lavin. You are very welcome. I hope you have a very good visit to Leinster House today. Cuirim fáilte romhaibh.

I now call on Senator Craughwell, who is not a Brigid, but he is very welcome.

Senator Gerard P. Craughwell

I wish all of the women of Ireland, including my eight sisters, my mother, my granddaughters, my wife, my daughter and my cousins, a great St. Brigid's day. I hope they really have a good day. I hope that we learn something from all of this welcoming of St. Brigid and Lá Fhéile Bríd, and all of this. I do not think we have over the years.

Anyway, now to get down to the serious issues. I have mentioned Jadotville in this House for the best part of eight years. We have a report that has, largely, been rejected by the families of those whose fathers and brothers were recommended for military honours.

After the debate in the Seanad with the then Minister, Deputy Coveney, after the publication of Jadotville independent review group report, I was under the impression that no action would be taken. I was quite taken aback to find that a new Defence Forces regulation, DFR, has been written, and that this Defence Forces regulation provided for two things. It amended the requirement for a person to have actually witnessed what had taken place in order to make a recommendation for a military honour or a medal. It also lifted the time bar. The independent review group specifically deals with one person, the late Commandant Pat Quinlan, a man deserving of a military medal for gallantry. I believe that most of us agree with that. However, the last surviving commissioned officer, retired Captain Noel Carey, and two of the last surviving senior NCOs have now submitted to the Department of Defence and the Defence Forces 34 recommendations for medals. If one can waive the timeframe and waive the requirement to actually have witnessed the event, then surely the recommendations of those who actually saw what happened would carry a weight that should be respected. We are not saying, and never have said, that all 34 should get medals. We are saying that they should have been afforded a proper medals board. I am aware that the Leader herself wore the uniform and she will understand that we should respect military honours. A man from the Leader's own county, Billy Kedian who died in the Lebanon has never been properly honoured by the State, and there are several more. I am again starting the campaign to get the Chief of Staff to go back over the last 100 years to look at every action and see who is entitled to be recognised.

Senator Aisling Dolan

I wish to acknowledge that more than half of the projects funded under active travel are in rural areas, which is 500 of the 1,200 projects, and there is €290 million coming into rural areas. It is greatly needed. We know there are busy roads and there are no footpaths. One can live in the country and yet not get a chance to go out and have a walk safely on roads at all. It is great to see the projects, and particularly in my own hometown of Ballinasloe where we have had the completion of loop walks. This is a great way for people all over the town to do a 5 km loop, and especially around Beechlawn, which is getting the funding to finish. It has been difficult for county councils. I acknowledge the active travel teams. Costs have increased and the projects that would have looked to be completed a year or two ago now have costs that have increased. On the Roscommon side, more than €1 million is coming into the Ballaghaderreen town development. This also includes funding for schools. It is the safe routes to schools programme that was launched about two years ago and now we are seeing the next round of funding for schools to apply to the programme. More than €100,000 in funding is coming in for Summerhill in Athlone. There are other footpath projects coming into the county also, including Castlerea, Boyle, Ballinlough and Bealnamullia just outside Athlone. It is really wonderful to have the funding for safe routes to schools and for safe places for families to walk and to cycle. This is government funding that will make a real impact in rural areas. It will encourage people to get out for a sunny spring walk on St. Brigid's Day.

An Cathaoirleach

I now call on the Leader to reply.

Senator Lisa Chambers

I thank all Members who contributed to the Order of Business today. I extend a happy St. Brigid's Day to all Members. Pretty much every Member who spoke this morning acknowledged the day. This is the first year that we will have our new bank holiday, which is great. It is one of the positive things following the pandemic that we were able to do for our citizens, to get that extra day off for people.

At the beginning of the Order of Business this morning, Senator Murphy spoke about home vacancies, which is a particular challenge in some counties. The Senator referred to Roscommon, Mayo, and other counties. It may be 10% or 12% in some areas, and we must try to address this. The Senator rightly acknowledged some of the really good schemes that have been announced by the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage, Deputy Darragh O'Brien, such as the Croí Cónaithe scheme to try to tackle vacancies. Money has also been announced very recently for the local authorities to apply to purchase by compulsory purchase order buildings in town centres to get them back into use for retail, for offices and, very importantly, for residential as well. There is a lot of work happening. The Senator is correct to point out that the Government's housing plan is starting to work. It is turning the tide and numbers are going in the right direction. Anyone who suggests that it can happen very quickly or overnight is not being true to the realities of the challenges that have had to be faced, and especially in the past number of years.

Senators Boyhan and O'Sullivan commended the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Deputy McConalogue, on his decision not to accept recommendations for applications for membership of State boards under his Department where there is not at least 40% female candidates. This is to try to redress the imbalance that is there. This is very good. Senator Boyhan also acknowledged that the Minister, and his two junior ministers, the Ministers of State, Senator Hackett and Deputy Heydon, are in Offaly today at a women in agriculture conference, which will also address the issue. I wish the Ministers well in that regard.

Senator Boylan spoke on an issue to do with the CRU and the rebate or subsidy that is coming to households. I am not completely up to speed with all of the details raised by the Senator this morning but I acknowledge the work by the Senator and her office in bringing that issue to the fore. It is great to see that the refund is being processed.

Senator Carrigy spoke this morning about the communications Bill, which I dealt with yesterday. We are working on that. There is a proposed schedule to have all Stages of the Bill completed by the end of February, and we will expedite that. We will look to get agreement from all groups. There will be a group leaders' meeting later today. We will look to accelerate the passage of that Bill so we can make the payroll for the postmasters for the month of March. I believe there is agreement across the House to do that, and it should not be a major difficulty.

Senator Hoey spoke on migrants and refugees. The Minister of State, Deputy Joe O'Brien, will be in the House on 15 February to discuss that issue. There will be an opportunity for Senators to raise their concerns during that debate.

Senator Blaney spoke about the legacy Bill, the Bill of Rights and the protocol Bill currently making their way through the legislative process in the UK. On a number of occasions the Senator has outlined the severe negative impact the passing of that legislation would have on the families and on the Good Friday Agreement.

Senator Clonan spoke about a new book by Karina Molloy, entitled A Woman in Defence, which looks at the culture and the challenges for women in our Defence Forces, which at this point are well articulated and well documented. We will request a debate with the Minister for Defence at the earliest opportunity.

Senator Davitt spoke about the issue of the pension back payments due to some 44,000 pensioners. About €1,500, or possibly more, is due to each pensioner. The Senator has asked for some assistance in getting answers as to why there is a delay. I will get in touch with the relevant Department to try to get some answers for the Senator on that issue.

As she did previously, Senator Sherlock spoke about the job losses being experienced in the tech sector currently. We will request a debate with the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Coveney, around job losses in the tech sector in particular. I believe that PayPal has today announced some job losses. I believe there is a restructuring or resizing of the tech sector that had expanded very quickly during the pandemic and is now consolidating a little bit. I do not believe there is cause for huge concern and we will still find there will be great opportunities from the tech sector.

We are, of course, home to many of the large tech companies. The Senator also requested a debate on Palestine with the Minister for Foreign Affairs.

Senators Maria Byrne and Gavan spoke about the shortage of school places for 24 students in Limerick. The Minister, Deputy Foley, will be in the Chamber on 15 February. The debate that had been requested was on teacher shortages, but we will request to expand that debate to include school places, which will be an opportunity to raise the Limerick issue directly with the Minister. I can only imagine it is a very difficult situation for those children to be in. It should not happen. There should be a school place for every child. I assume the Department will work tirelessly to resolve the issue as soon as possible for those kids.

Senator O'Sullivan spoke about community employment, CE, schemes and their importance. He is right that they are part of the social fabric of rural Ireland and many jobs would not get done if we did not have CE schemes. There are particular challenges in getting people to go on schemes now. There are ,many other job opportunities and the scheme must compete with them. Anything we can do to remove barriers that prevent people joining the scheme would be very worthwhile. CE participants should be allowed to remain on if they so wish because we just cannot get replacements. We can debate the CE scheme as soon as possible.

I take the point Senator O'Sullivan made about the age restriction whereby participation on State boards is capped at 70 years of age. I agree with him that people beyond the age of 70 have as much to offer if not more sometimes because of experience and life experience. Seventy years seems quite an arbitrary cut-off age, which is not a fair way to assess any person or human being.

Senator Mullen spoke about today being St. Brigid's Day. He drew our attention to the historic St. Brigid as opposed to the one who has been discussed more recently sometimes. I take on board the point he raised.

Senator Mullen raised a particular issue concerning media coverage of the migrant situation. He suggested that perhaps the coverage is not always to the standard that one would expect from some of our national media outlets. I also take on board his comment in that regard.

Senator McGahon mentioned flexible travel tickets. I suggest that he raises this issue directly in a Commencement matter with the Minister, because he asked quite a specific question, to see where that is at and how we can progress the issue. I appreciate he raised the matter in the previous term.

Senators Gallagher and Conway spoke about the fact that the temporary business energy support scheme has been extended. Senator Gallagher spoke about some businesses not being aware that they can apply because the uptake is not as high as it could be and there is still money to be drawn down. He made the same point about the rental credit whereby many people who could apply have not done so. He suggested that we spread the word and create more awareness of the schemes.

Senator Ahearn spoke about childcare and the fact that childcare providers are educators. He raised a particular issue around childminders and the plan to regularise the area to some extent. It will probably take some time to do that because, for different reasons, people may not want to enter into a set system. However, a lot of work is done in the sector that is not part of the remit of the Department and is not recognised. Substantial reform is occurring in childcare and we have done a lot of work in reducing the cost for parents. People can see that in their childcare bills this year and it has been a huge help, but there is a long way to go on that yet. The Senator is right that it is important we recognise that, because the early years for a child are so formative and important, we must invest and regulate the sector properly.

Senator Conway spoke about the temporary business energy support scheme. He raised a particular issue concerning non-metered gas and that businesses in this case were not permitted to apply. I suggest to the Senator that he tables a Commencement matter to the Minister for Finance on the topic because it is quite a specific question. If that does not yield results, I ask the Senator to come back to me and we will try to get further answers.

Senator Craughwell raised an issue concerning Jadotville, as he has done previously. He also raised the issue of a request to the Chief of Staff to go back over the past 100 years to ascertain those who may be due recognition but who have not yet been recognised.

Senator Dolan spoke about the active travel announcement that was made this morning, which was great to see. It is significant that many of those projects - I believe the Senator said half - are outside of the big urban areas and in rural areas. My county of Mayo received €4.5 million. That will be put to very good use on cycleways, walkways and encouraging people to get out of their cars. People will only get out of their cars if they have a safe way to travel to and from where they want to go and it is great to see that money being spent in that way. The bigger picture is that such a scheme helps emissions reductions, greener initiatives and cleaner environments. It was a good news story this morning and a good way to finish the Order of Business.

An Cathaoirleach

Cuirim fíorfháilte roimh na daltaí agus na múinteoirí agus roimh chairde an tSeanadóra Clonan as Scoil an tSeachtar Laoch, Baile Munna, agus an Bráthair John Ledwidge as Artane. Tá fíorfháilte roimh gach duine.

Order of Business agreed to.