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Seanad Éireann debate -
Thursday, 10 Oct 2024

Vol. 303 No. 5

An tOrd Gnó - Order of Business

Before I ask the Leader to outline the proposed Order of Business, I welcome to the Distinguished Visitors Gallery the ambassador of Spain. We are delighted he is here in advance of Spain's national day and we are honoured he has come here to celebrate that day in the Seanad. Ireland and Spain have a long history. Indeed, my county, Kerry, celebrates the Treaty of Dingle of 1529. I know that the ambassador visited the town recently. Of course, there was also the Flight of the Earls, who ended up throughout Spain and wider Europe and whose beginnings led to the continued support from Spain for Ireland through to the present day. Spain’s support for Ireland during Brexit helped make sure there was no return to a hard border on the island of Ireland, a cause that was supported overwhelmingly throughout the European Union and, indeed, the United States of America.

About 40,000 Irish people go to the sunshine in Spain every year as permanent residents but more than 2.3 million Irish people go there for their holidays, while more than 20,000 people from Spain live in Ireland and work in our service industries as well as in the tech and pharmaceutical industries and our hospitals. Spain is the fifth largest market for Irish visitors and the connection goes back even to the Spanish Prime Minister, who came here as a student. We have welcomed many former Prime Ministers as well who have been here and continue to celebrate the long and enduring links between Ireland and Spain. I thank the ambassador for being here in advance of his country's national day. We look forward to celebrating that with him.

The ambassador is most welcome to the Seanad Chamber. The Order of Business is No. 1, report of the Seanad Committee of Selection, to be taken on conclusion of the Order of Business, without debate; No. 2, motion regarding the Horse and Greyhound Racing Regulations 2024 - referral to committee, to be taken on conclusion of No. 1, without debate; No. 3, Seanad Electoral (University Members) (Amendment) Bill 2024 - Order for Second Stage and Second Stage, to be taken at 11.45 a.m. and to conclude at 2.30 p.m. if not previously concluded, with the time allocated to the opening remarks by the Minister not to exceed 12 minutes, those of group spokespersons not to exceed 15 minutes and time may be shared, those of all other Senators not to exceed six minutes and the Minister to be given no less than 12 minutes to reply to the debate; No. 4, Electricity Costs (Emergency Measures) Domestic Accounts Bill 2024 - all Stages, to be taken at 2.30 p.m. and the proceedings thereon shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion by 4 p.m. by the putting of one question from the Chair that shall, in respect of amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Government, the time allocated to the opening remarks by the Minister during the debate on Second Stage shall not exceed eight minutes, those of group spokespersons not to exceed ten minutes and time may be shared, and the Minister to be given no less than six minutes to reply to the debate, and Committee and Remaining Stages to be taken immediately thereafter; and No. 5, motion regarding the earlier signature of the Electricity Costs (Emergency Measures) Domestic Accounts Bill 2024, to be taken on the conclusion of No. 4, without debate.

Like the Leas-Chathaoirleach, I very much welcome to the Distinguished Visitors Gallery H.E. Mr. Ion de la Riva and his deputy, who have both represented Spain wonderfully since they arrived here. I recall having a conversation with the ambassador last year when I pointed out to him that after Britain, the second largest number of flights every week from Dublin Airport were to Spain. Even the ambassador was surprised to learn there were 300 flights a week from Ireland to Spain. Ours is a population of only 5 million people, yet we have 300 flights a week to Spain and 56 flights a week to Malaga alone in the summertime from Dublin Airport. Obviously, there are also flights from Shannon, Cork and other airports such as Knock, but it shows how popular Spain is as a destination and the great friendship we have. Indeed, my brother is on holidays in Spain at the moment and is coming back tomorrow. I think every family in the country has been to Spain at some point. When I was growing up, we used to have Spanish visitors in a house across the road and we got to know them well. Many Spanish people come to Ireland to learn English, which is another great bond we have.

On my own behalf and, I am sure, on that of everyone in the House, I pass on my sympathy and condolences to the Minister, Deputy Peter Burke, on the very recent death of his mother. Peter and I served on the south Dublin mid-Leinster health forum for many years as councillors and I have known him for a very long time. He is an excellent TD and Minister. It is very sad for him, having lost his dad relatively recently, to have now lost his mum. As a House, we might pass on our sympathy and condolences to him.

During this week when there has been the anniversary of the horrific attack in Israel of 7 October, we should remember that more than 100 hostages remain unaccounted for. I call for a cessation of the violence generally but, equally, for those hostages to be released. These are both young and old people, who were taken from their homes and the music festival to Gaza. Some of them were held hostage for 300 days and then killed, while others were killed very soon. The attacks were very much the catalyst that has caused so much devastation in the region ever since. I would like us to have a debate on the Middle East, sooner rather than later, and also to have a discussion as to why, at this point in the cycle, we decided to upgrade our presence in Iran to full embassy status. It almost seems like a reward for Iran at a time when it is funding Hamas, Hezbollah, the Houthis in Yemen and other organisations that are inflicting so much devastation on that region. None of us likes to see the images we are seeing happen every day in that region. I ask that we have a debate on the issue as soon as possible.

I join the Senator in the expressions of sympathy to our colleague the Minister, Deputy Burke, and I think we all join the Senator in calling for the release of the hostages and a cessation of the violence in the Middle East on all sides.

We were talking about the Camino and the links between Ireland and Spain with the ambassador earlier. I know the Spanish Government went to enormous lengths to identify Red Hugh O'Donnell, who died at 29 years of age on his way to try to get the Spanish King to provide another armada to come to Ireland and help us secure our freedom. That shows how, even 400 years on, the history between us is so strong and enduring. Not only do many Irish people go on holiday to Spain, they also go on pilgrimage to Spain on the Camino and end up in a place called Finisterre, known as the end of the world, where the Romans thought, once upon a time, that the world ended. Little did they know-----

I thought that was Skellig Michael.

That is the centre of the world, not the end of the world.

Most TDs regard their constituency as the centre of the centre of the universe, not the end of the world.

First, I acknowledge and welcome the ambassador from Spain. I come from a place just outside Kinsale, called Minane Bridge. The history between Kinsale and Spain is quite unique, going back to the 1601 war. It is an amazing story. The presence that the Spanish still have in that town is quite unique. It is great to have the ambassador here and he is welcome. I also greet my colleague and acknowledge the death of the mother of the Minister, Deputy Peter Burke. It is a very sad situation for Peter, who only lost his dad in recent years. Obviously, the Minister is a fantastic public representative and it is a very sad time for him and his family.

I also wish to mention two other things. St. Killian's School, Cork city, received significant funding of €40,000 yesterday to help with the therapies that are badly needed in that complex itself. It is a short-term solution to a problem of how we are going to make sure that schools such as St. Killian's get the therapies required for the students. There are more than 100 students there. The 15 teachers and 39 SNAs do an amazing job with a cohort of children who need that help. I have been continuously calling for one of these schools to be relocated in west Cork. Children literally go from Skibbereen to St. Killian's and back every day. The journey is two hours each way. It is just not good enough, unfortunately. These children have learning difficulties and need certain types of help. The therapies are required. We need to make sure, however, that there is a more appropriate way to help our students. The funding mechanisms brought in place for St. Killian's are welcome, but a long-term solution is required to make sure we have a joined-up approach to make sure these therapies can be provided full-time on the actual campus. In the long term, we need to make sure that we spread out these schools in other locations. St. Killian's is the model we need to look at. We need another St. Killian's in west Cork because Cork, particularly west Cork, is challenging geographically. We need to have a school to represent the cohort of kids from that part of the world who are travelling all the way to Cork city at the moment.

The other issue is An Post is going through radical change at the moment. We have seen in the newspapers this morning that potentially, 12 post offices are being put up for sale. Significant locations such as Kinsale, Macroom, Skibbereen and Bantry have all been mentioned as locations that are in the ownership of An Post but are going to be sold. I realise there are issues here between postmasters and these properties. Whatever happens here, we need to make sure, during the relocation of these offices, that the sites chosen are suitable, that there is suitable parking and that they are located in town centres where people can actually access An Post's services. We do not want these locations to be put in industrial sites outside town centres where we do not have the appropriate infrastructure. They need to be near public transport, car parking and the amenities people are going to. If we do that, it will work, but if we pick sites that are slightly outside the norm, the knock-on implication will lead to unbelievable backlash. We need to make sure these sites are appropriate and that everyone can go to the post office.

I also extend my sympathies to the Minister, Deputy Burke, on the passing of his dear mother.

I ask that the Minister for Education comes to the House for a debate about the social, personal and health education, SPHE, syllabus and how it interacts with schools' child protection obligations and our obligations under the law. We did some child protection very well in this country about a decade ago. Thankfully, we have very robust child protection procedures in schools dating from 2017. These mandatory school procedures are informed, among other things, by awareness of the vulnerability of children around sexual matters, the capacity for grooming and the inability of a child to consent. The procedures clearly spell out what sexual exploitation is and how it can link to pornography and sexually explicit material. These procedures, importantly, precede in time the recent push to prematurely sexualise young people through school curricula. They precede the queer theory and gender theory-laden SPHE syllabi, which seek to disrupt dominant and normalising binaries, pretending that such binaries and norms are oppressive. These child protection procedures precede the worrying whistleblower evidence from an SPHE teacher concerned by recent Department of Education-funded training courses delivered in DCU, in part by academics sold on queer theory and gender identity ideology. Frankly, it featured such toxic and desensitising material, according to what I saw.

Despite plentiful alerts, indeed thousands, delivered by parents to the National Council for Curriculum and Assessment, NCCA, during the consultation and design phase of the SPHE curriculum, the NCCA pushed ahead with a reductive syllabus inspired by hedonism under the guise of inclusiveness. Even the ASTI recently proposed to its teachers that they should not teach an SPHE programme if they do not feel confident to do so. That is a welcome but insufficient response.

I call on patrons and boards of management in all schools to subject, immediately, the new NCCA SPHE syllabus content and methodology to a full, children-first audit, as is their duty. School boards of management cannot escape the duty to engage in full child protection and risk assessment. That includes anything that is being pushed at them by the State or its minions or agents forming syllabi. Examine the content of textbooks and resource material in the context of children's vulnerability. People should insist to their schools, in writing, if necessary, that this is done. The Minister should now sack or replace the board of the NCCA for its disregard of parental sensitivities. Despite the constantly expressed steady groundswell of concerns over recent years, the NCCA has created an unforgivable mess and needs to be made publicly answerable. There can be no hiding places. The Minister for Education needs to stop covering for educational incompetence.

I note that this week marks the centenary of bilateral diplomatic relations between Ireland and the United States. It is fitting that the Taoiseach is meeting with President Biden. It was a for a new State when the United States recognised Ireland and established those diplomatic relations. It was important. Our relationship has had its ups and downs, but the United States and Ireland have always been very strong friends. It is something that is right of us to celebrate. We think of the many people of Ireland who have travelled to the United States and made lives and established businesses there. We think of our own friendships and the trade links between Ireland and the United States. While the United States is the largest foreign direct investor in Ireland, it is also worth pointing out that Ireland is now the seventh largest foreign director in the United States. Those connections have been long and they are strong. We stand on the global stage for the same values, namely, democracy, the rule of law and liberty. The good thing about it is if we have disagreements among friends, we can express those views but on many issues the United States and Ireland have always stood strong. It is right that we celebrate and mark the centenary of those relations.

I appreciate there has been much discussion in this House about Russia this week.

Yesterday, in the European Parliament, there was a vote on Russian interference in Moldova. Again, we know about Russia's attempts to interfere in the political activities of democratic states in Europe. When a motion to address and condemn Russia's interference in Moldova was put to the European Parliament, unsurprisingly, members of the hard-left groups, including Sinn Féin, abstained. Again and again in this country, we see hard-left parties, including Sinn Féin, continuously adopt pro-Russian positions and they fail to call it out. As a country, we continue to stand for democracy, human rights and the rule of law, and we oppose Putin’s Russia.

Today is World Mental Health Day, the theme of which is wellness in the workplace. I pay tribute to the Limerick Mental Health Association, which is running Limerick Mental Health Week with the theme of community connection and compassion. Over 54 projects are being run throughout the week, including community-based projects, concerts and sit-and-chat cafés. Many events are being held. I pay tribute to Ian Hackett and the team at the Limerick Mental Health Association, which is in the process of opening a mental health café. We should all make sure our mental health is looked after and we should reach out to people who need support and help. The 54 projects being run throughout the week will have a very positive impact. The Minister of State, Deputy Mary Butler, launched Limerick Mental Health Week on Monday last. There were many people there from different walks of society, including migrants and people from the university, businesses and the Garda. It is an issue that we are all concerned about. I pay tribute to the Limerick Mental Health Association. I look forward to going to a concert tonight and there is another event tomorrow evening. It has been a busy week in Limerick.

I call on the Minister for Education, Deputy Foley, to resign in light of the SPHE training administered by Dublin City University. The Minister's interview on Newstalk last week showed a shocking level of negligence from the media in doing its job of probing the story. The presenter, Kieran Cuddihy, flippantly dismissed it as a non-story in response to the Minister's defence of the training as a seminar that was for adults by adults. Rather than discredit the messenger, he decided that the Minister was right and that the whistleblower was giving misleading information. The real lie is the cover-up by both the Minister and the media. The whistleblower on the course discussed how some content is already administered in classrooms in the UK. The WISER programme, a similarly obscene and graphic SPHE sex education course, received complaints from parents in a Galway school some time ago. For the record, the entire course was recorded. I can only discuss a part of that course today.

The Minister should be sacked immediately. This is grooming in its purest form. If they tell people that children are sexually innocent, they are effectively grooming. Children can never consent, and these are children as young as 12 being exposed to obscene content in the classroom. To those who would retort that children are looking at it online anyway, this is a so-called safe environment to receive information. I need only point to Senator Mullen's Bill to ban online pornography for minors. It cannot become law fast enough. It is a real solution that ensures children are shielded from sexual content. The Minister has spent €9 million on child protection by deactivating smartphones in schools when children's mental health services are on their knees. A better way to use this money would have been to invest in counselling services in the schools, where they are sorely needed. I call on the Minister to resign. She has presided over and defended this content. It is simply not good enough. Children deserve better.

Following the Order of Business this morning, we will have the launch of the Seanad public consultation report on the future of local democracy, which was chaired by the Leas-Chathaoirleach, Senator Mark Daly. I acted as rapporteur for this report and several Members of the Seanad were part of it, including Senator Victor Boyhan, who is present. It involved extensive work and was launched in the summer of 2023, when we put out a public call, not just to local authority members but to members of the public, to engage with the committee to shape what they saw as the future of local government. A series of probing discussions took place in this Chamber with local authority members, officials and members of Northern Ireland local government, including members of the Unionist community, who came to, sat and spoke in this Chamber on a very significant day.

As a result of those extensive discussions, the report, which will be launched in the next half an hour, has set out the establishment of a local democracy task force, which will then seek the input of all political parties. I know this is something the Leas-Chathaoirleach, as Chairman, was very strong on. I hope the political parties will sign up in their manifestoes to back this report and seek the reforms that we are calling for. This will strengthen local democracy in Ireland, give the powers that are required to local authority members, ensure local authorities are properly financed, ensure the re-establishment of town councils, which were taken away under the guise of reform in a previous process, and ensure that the relevant Departments and agencies, of which there are a multiplicity in this country, are legally accountable to local authorities.

For most citizens in Ireland, their engagement with government is at local level, not central government level. Whether it be for facilities, housing, roads or infrastructure, their engagement with government is at local level. It is incumbent on us to make sure it is the finest local government they can have in Europe.

My home town of Dundalk has an incredibly proud sporting tradition. It is a football town and a GAA town. We have an incredible history of sport, no more so than in the world of athletics, where we recently had the Olympian, Kate O'Connor, and Irish athlete, Israel Olatunde. We have a very strong athletics and running history in my town. There are clubs with a long history, such as Dundalk St. Gerard's Athletics Club, North East Runners Dundalk, Blackrock Athletic Club and Dún Dealgan Athletic Club.

I live in Seatown and every night of the week, I see members of these clubs out running the roads in darkness. That is happening because there has been a substantial delay in delivering a world-class running track in Dundalk since 2019-2020. Much of the blame lies with the local authority due to planning issues. It is certainly not with the Government, which has been willing and able to provide substantial funding at every stage. It is clear that if we are going to support the athletes of the future and have the next Kates and Israels in my town of Dundalk, we need a world-class running track. This will mean athletes do not have to go to Drogheda and Newry, and do not have to run the roads in darkness in the middle of the winter. We need that world-class facility.

I am asking for as much pressure as possible from the Department and the Government to make sure that Louth County Council, in particular, draws down the money and resolves the planning issues in a timely fashion. After the last four to six years, we need this saga over a running track to come to a successful conclusion. We want a world-class facility in the heart of Dundalk, supporting our athletes, so the town of Dundalk can continue to champion a very proud sporting tradition.

I raise the issue of women in agriculture. Last night, the Joint Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine was addressed by University College Galway associate professor, Dr. Maura Farrell, regarding women in agriculture.

When she advocated strongly for women, including women at the centre of politics and agri-politics, I highlighted to her the great disappointment that was the lack of women's representation on the Joint Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine. I made a call at that meeting and in a media interview last night, and I am making it again here: it is incumbent on all parties and none to encourage and support women to be active in politics and to give them the confidence they need. Dr. Farrell outlined the successful array of women doing fantastic work in agri-enterprise across the country. She said she was tired of the attitude that women could “stand in the gap”, which is a great expression in rural Ireland, and wanted to see them being recognised, supported and encouraged. She spoke about the key issue of confidence. It was reasonable. In line with the remarks about local government by my colleague, Senator Cassells, we need to encourage women in all strands of life, but particularly rural Ireland. I ask all of the parties in the House and the Independents to field women on the agricultural panel. Having women represented on that panel is important. I acknowledge Senator Maria Byrne is on the agricultural panel but we need more women on it. We need more women participating, engaging and making decisions in the very heart of our democracy on the committee on agriculture. Let us all support women in agri-enterprise. There are hundreds of them doing fantastic work. We need to celebrate and encourage that. I call on Senators to revert to their respective parties and ask how they can support new entrants into politics, particularly from the agriculture sector, and, more importantly, how they can elevate and support the women who are already in the Houses and who have vast experience of rural life and agriculture and bring them to the very centre of policy formation and legislation.

Before I call the Leader to respond, I join Senator Cassells in thanking everyone who served on the Seanad Public Consultation Committee during its discussions on the future of local democracy. He was its rapporteur, but Senators Black, Boyhan, Casey, Chambers, Currie, Martin, Joe O’Reilly and Wall were also involved. Former Senators, Regina Doherty and Niall Ó Donnghaile, both served on the committee. It was an important examination of where we were as a country in terms of local democracy. The key recommendation was the establishment of a task force chaired by the Minister for local government, who would report to the Cabinet with proposals from the task force and outline how and when they would be implemented. These would include not only the recommendations from the committee, but also the proposals from all previous reports. The one thing local democracy is not lacking in is reports on reform, but the one thing it is lacking in is implementation of recommended reforms. We hope that all political parties and groupings in the Houses will take the suggestion on board and include in their manifestos that the task force be established within three months of the appointment of the Cabinet member with responsibility for local government and that a timeline for implementation and legislation be set forth by the Government to reverse the mission creep by many agencies and the sweeping away of powers from democratically elected members.

I call the Leader to respond on the Order of Business.

I thank the Senators who contributed. The first was Senator Horkan. I join in his and many other colleagues’ words of condolences to the Minister, Deputy Peter Burke, on the sad passing of his mother. Senator Horkan rightly pointed out that it had not been long since the Minister lost his father as well. Our thoughts and prayers are with Peter and the wider Burke family on the sad passing of their mum. Ar dheis Dé go raibh a h-anam.

Senator Horkan spoke passionately about the ongoing conflict in the Middle East and called for the release of hostages. It is important to remember them. There are still more than 100 people who have not been returned and whom we do not know are alive or not.

I believe there are 101.

It is anguish for their families. I watched with interest the BBC’s “Panorama” documentary that followed four families – two Israeli families and two Palestinian families – through the conflict. We saw innocent people being destroyed on both sides and unimaginable horrors. We sometimes neglect to mention the hostages when discussing the conflict, but there is a consensus on seeking a ceasefire and peace in the region. We think of our troops in Lebanon, their families in Ireland and the troops due to go to UNIFIL in the coming weeks. Many lives have been lost in an unnecessary conflict. There needs to be a de-escalation as soon as possible. I hope that the interventions of US President Biden can provide some sort of resolution to the situation.

Senator Lombard spoke-----

Can we have a debate on the matter?

That has been requested by numerous Senators over recent weeks. We have asked for it. Understandably, the Tánaiste is quite busy, but the request has been submitted.

I thank the Leader.

Senator Lombard spoke about St. Killian’s Special School and sought a similar school in the other part of the constituency. He also spoke about the changes coming about at An Post and how certain post offices are for sale. He wants the areas that they are being relocated to be fit for purpose and capable of facilitating people using those important services.

Senators Mullen and Keogan discussed the SPHE programme. Senator Mullen spoke about how the programme worked in line with child protection and asked for a debate with the Minister for Education. We will request that debate, but I am not sure we will get to have it, given our schedule for the next number of weeks, of which we are all aware.

I must disagree with Senator Keogan on calling for the Minister, Deputy Foley, to resign. She has been a good Minister for Education. We forget that, when she first acquired this brief, she landed into the Cabinet in the middle of the Covid pandemic. She did an incredible job managing schools, teachers and pupils in a really difficult environment.

Predicted grades.

In managing all of that, she has proved herself an effective Minister for Education. There are particular views on the SPHE programme.

She is presiding over this filth. It is filth that is being allowed to be taught in schools.

The Leader without interruption.

It is disgusting.

In any event, I will request a debate with the Minister. It will provide an opportunity to debate those issues. However, I wish to defend Deputy Foley. She has been a very good Minister for Education. Her recent work on trying to tackle smartphone use shows that she is thinking about children’s welfare and mental health.

Senator Malcolm Byrne acknowledged that we were celebrating the centenary of bilateral diplomatic relations with the US. It is an important relationship for Ireland and the US. The Senator put on the record an interesting fact that people may not have been aware of, namely, that Ireland was actually the seventh largest investor in the US. It is a two-way street and an important relationship both ways.

The Senator also made an impassioned contribution on rejecting Putin’s Russia and that our values in Ireland and the EU are those of democracy, human rights and the rule of law.

Senator Maria Byrne welcomed World Mental Health Day and congratulated the Limerick Mental Health Association on its fantastic work, including the 54 projects it is running. I commend all of those involved in the important work of highlighting how mental health is an important part of our overall health and affects everyone, how issues can often be hidden and how everyone has his or her own challenges. As such, an awareness week is important.

Senator Cassells discussed the launch at 11.30 a.m. of the Seanad Public Consultation Committee’s report on the future of local democracy. That committee was chaired by the Leas-Chathaoirleach and it was a pleasure to be a member of it with many others. It has done fantastic work and, as the Leas-Chathaoirleach pointed out, it is important that there be follow-through and that the report’s recommendations be implemented. That will probably be a job for the next Seanad and Dáil. A large volume of work was done and there was a great deal of engagement. It was great to see this room being used to see members of our local governments, North and South, coming together with different stakeholders. It was a fantastic exercise in gathering information and getting all views. It was difficult to distil all of that down into the key elements, but the Leas-Chathaoirleach and the rapporteur, Senator Cassells, have done a fantastic job with the report in that regard.

Senator McGahon called for funding to be made available for a running track in Dundalk. He stated that there had been delays and that the many fantastic athletics clubs in the town were going without this important facility. I support the Senator in his call. There has been considerable investment in sport, for example, through the recent sports capital programme announcements, so there is always a commitment from the Government to fund sports facilities in recognition of how important they are for local communities.

Senator Victor Boyhan spoke about women in agriculture. The term "agri-politics" is new to me; I had not heard it before. It is interesting. The Senator also referred to agribusiness. I can attest to the fact that, in my county, Mayo, there is much agri-industry, many agribusinesses and fantastic entrepreneurs, women and men, leading the way and doing very innovative things. The Senator is right that there could certainly be greater balance on the agriculture committee. There was one woman. Lynn Boylan was a member but she has now vacated her position, so balance is certainly lacking. There is certainly a greater responsibility on the larger parties to ensure that, where they have more than one space on a committee, they try to ensure more balance. There are certainly many women in the Oireachtas with a great interest in rural affairs and agriculture, particularly those from where agriculture is a major part of the local economy. The Senator made a very good point. He used the interesting term "stand in the gap". I stood in the gap many times myself when I was younger-----

-----so I know exactly what he meant by it. I hated it. I used to be terrified but did it anyway because it was just part of what you had to do when living in a rural area. The term is funny and you either know what it means or you do not.

I thank the Leader for outlining the Order of Business.

I welcome the guests of the Minister of State, Malcolm Noonan. They are from Loreto Secondary School, Kilkenny, and are most welcome to Seanad Éireann. The unofficial rule of Seanad Éireann is that if pupils visit, they do not have homework for the rest of the week. We always try to encourage them to come on a Tuesday. If we sat on a Monday, they could visit on a Monday, but unfortunately today is a Thursday. There is to be no homework today and tomorrow.

Maybe it should be for a week in future.

Have I a seconder for the proposal for a week?

I am happy to second it.

It has been seconded, so no homework for a week is now official policy of the Seanad. Congratulations. Senator Horkan should note it is now on the record. He is all right; he is now getting all the votes in Kilkenny.

And everywhere else.

And everywhere else. Indeed.

Order of Business agreed to.

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