Seanad Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 5 Nov 2024

Vol. 303 No. 12

Nithe i dtosach suíonna - Commencement Matters

Local Authorities

Senator Victor Boyhan

I welcome the Minister of State and thank him for coming to the House to deal with this important Commencement matter. I would also like to thank the Cathaoirleach, Senator Jerry Buttimer, for selecting this Commencement matter.

As others here will know, I have always made it one of my key objectives in politics for more power to be given to local government and its councillors, and I have adopted that slogan. I unashamedly say that. I have always worked for that and will continue to do so as long as I am in this House because it is crucially important. Like many here, I have served in local government and understand its importance and significance, as well as subsidiarity and making decisions at that level.

I want to raise the issue of the Congress of Local and Regional Authorities of the Council of Europe. It unanimously adopted a report at its plenary meeting in Strasbourg over a year ago which report raised serious issues and stated that Ireland had been found to be compliant with only eight of the 20 principles of the European Charter of Local Self-Government. I am keen to hear what progress has been made in a year.

The European Charter of Local Self-Government aims to protect and promote the rights of local and regional authorities across Europe. The independent report stated, as the Minister of State well knows, that Ireland remains one of the most centralised countries in Europe in regard to local government, the subsidiarity of the issues around local government and the principles and policies in respect of local government.

The report sets out a series of principles and standards that member states are expected to adhere to in order to ensure effective local self-government and decentralisation of powers. I will raise a few key issues in respect of the report. The Council of Europe expressed concerns regarding the following: limited democratic decision-making powers; the imbalance in power between elected councillors and chief executives in local authorities; the democratic evidence deficit in making decisions – this was central to many of the concerns in the report; the insufficient financial resources and autonomy of our local authorities and how that impacts on locally elected councillors in carrying out their functions; the very limited discretion for councillors in respect of their local authority finances, which is surely an issue that needs to be addressed; and the lack of financial autonomy, which was identified as a key obstacle to effective local government and local government administration.

Ireland having the most centralised system of local government in Europe is mentioned in the report. The report concludes that Ireland is far from compliant with the principles of subsidiarity, which I have spoken about, and requires decision-making.

We all know what subsidiarity means: it is about making decisions at the local level. I am keen to hear what progress has been made. A great deal of work has been done by the Seanad local government committee and by the Local Authorities Members Association and the Association of Irish Local Government and their members. It is important that we address the shortcomings in this regard.

I am here to articulate the concerns of councillors and their representative organisations. They want to see greater powers, subsidiarity and more functions. It is with some regret that I say that this Government and previous Governments over the past 20 years have eroded the functions and powers of councillors across all local authorities. I have continuously advocated in this regard and tabled numerous amendments to legislation in my eight years in this House, but many of them were simply blocked. However, in the coming weeks, we will have opportunities to go out on the ground, meet our electorate and articulate those concerns. For that reason, I am keen to hear the Minister of State's views on how we are going to progress the commitments that the Government made to address the shortcomings identified in this report.

Minister of State at the Department of Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science (Deputy Niall Collins)

I thank Senator Boyhan for raising this matter and for his continued interest in local government issues. As it happens, the monitoring delegation from the Congress of Local and Regional Authorities of the Council of Europe will travel to Dublin on 14 November next for a post-monitoring dialogue on its 2023 monitoring report. As a result, I am grateful for the opportunity to come before the House today on behalf of the Minister of State with responsibility for local government and planning to provide an update on Ireland’s progress towards full compliance with the European Charter of Local Self-Government. The recommendations of the 2023 monitoring visit, as adopted at the plenary meeting of the congress last October, have helped us to identify areas in which we are achieving, as well as areas where more needs to be done. The Government is committed to this process. As the report acknowledges, Ireland has made significant progress since the visit of the previous monitoring delegation in 2012, most notably through the provisions of the Local Government Reform Act 2014.

Reform of local government in Ireland is an evolving process. The Local Government Reform Act 2014 was an important step in that evolution, and the introduction from this year of a directly elected Mayor with executive functions in Limerick, with the potential for other local authority areas to vote to follow suit, is another key reform milestone. The Mayor of Limerick, who has been elected for a five-year term, has taken some executive functions of the former role of chief executive. The Mayor also has new functions and responsibilities, particularly in relation to the long-term, strategic development of Limerick. Crucially, this new office of Mayor recognises the role of the democratically elected council and the council continues to exercise its reserved functions. In the performance of his role, the Mayor is, therefore, fully accountable to the elected council, not just to the electorate every five years. An important feature of the Act to establish a directly elected Mayor of Limerick is that there are regular, statutory consultations between the Mayor and national Government, which meets one of the recommendations of the congress’ report.

With regard to the report’s recommendations to broaden the scope of local authority functions, functional areas and services currently under the responsibility of local government include social housing and homelessness, land-use planning and transport. The 2014 reforms introduced new economic and community development functions to local government. More recently, vital statutory roles in relation to climate action and maritime area planning, among others, have also been assigned to local government. These are substantial functions assigned to local government and the success of local authorities in managing these has been fundamental to the State’s ability to manage its response to the Covid-19 pandemic, the Ukraine humanitarian response and the integration of thousands of new arrivals into communities around Ireland. In all, local authorities deliver over 1,100 services, working in partnership with some 30 central Government bodies.

With regard to the report’s findings in relation to the financial independence of local government, the funding system that applies to local government in Ireland is a complex one and, arguably, the report has not correctly reflected this reality. There are references in the report to local property tax being the only source of locally generated income that can be used for local priorities. This is not correct.

Commercial rates, goods and services and local property tax income are all used to fund local authority services, including planning, public lighting, provision of fire services and libraries. The elected members have, for the most part, discretion to determine the level of income from goods and services. The adoption of a balanced budget is probably the single most important duty that the elected members are called upon to carry out each year. To achieve that balance, the members must make informed and necessary choices to balance the level of service provision having regard to both the needs and resources available.

Senator Victor Boyhan

I thank the Minster of State for the way in which he has addressed and outlined some of the issues. My key ask today concerns what the Congress of Local and Regional Authorities of the Council of Europe identified in its report. It was sent to Government. I happen to sit on the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Housing, Local Government and Heritage, so I am familiar with some of the background in terms of the Department and these responses. I know it is not the Minister of State's direct Department but it would be helpful to have a written response or memo detailing the 12 outstanding issues. There were 20 issues and there was concern about 12 of them. I know the Minister of State is very supportive of local government, local democracy and subsidiarity. It is about more power for local government and its elected councillors. It is about the key principle of subsidiarity, which is really important. What I would like to see from this discussion is a more detailed response.

I was not aware the monitoring delegation was coming here on 14 November. That is welcome but it would be important to have a detailed response on those issues in advance. If there are misunderstandings regarding this report, all parties should be brought together to establish what is factually correct. The Minister of State pointed out some anomalies and concerns. It is important the congress understands the complexities of local government finance and how those decisions are arrived at.

I thank the Minister of State for coming in and ask that he request from the Department a memo on the issues in dispute so we can see how we can work together to make progress.

Deputy Niall Collins

There are robust governance structures in place at local government level, based on legislation and good practice. All local authorities have an internal audit unit and an audit committee, chaired by an independent expert.

There are also opportunities to further strengthen the powers of locally elected members in respect of their primary oversight and governance role in regard to local authorities. The Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage will continue to engage with councillor representative bodies and the sector in this respect.

I note the report’s finding that financial conditions for elected members have improved, although the finding that Ireland is only partly in compliance with the charter in this regard is disappointing. Since 2021, a number of very significant improvements in the terms and conditions for councillors have been introduced and, indeed, are ongoing. In terms of their remuneration alone, elected members have seen their annual remuneration payment rise by over 60% to €30,274 since 2021. The Government has also aggressively promoted the balanced participation of women and wider diversity in local government, and reduced barriers to participation. The introduction of maternity leave in 2022 and additional maternity-related supports in 2023 are other actions we would like to point to. I will ask the Department to send the memo requested by the Senator.

Acting Chairperson (Senator Martin Conway)

I thank the Minister of State for his time today. I also thank Senator Boyhan for continuously raising these important issues.

Employment Rights

Acting Chairperson (Senator Martin Conway)

The Minister of State, Deputy Higgins, is very welcome to the House.

Senator Alice-Mary Higgins

I welcome the Minister of State to the House. What plans and measures are in place, including legislative measures, to implement the EU directive on adequate minimum wages, which I understand was published in October 2022 and must be transposed into Irish law by 15 November 2024?

I am concerned that we have not seen legislative measures and legislation coming through the Houses. I am not aware of any statutory instruments put in place regarding the transposition, even though it has been very strongly signalled by the key parties and relevant stakeholders, including the unions, that legislative measures are required to ensure proper and full transposition. I agree with them. I am going to focus on two articles in particular.

Article 4 concerns the requirement that EU member states would promote and increase the coverage of collective bargaining rights in terms of wage setting for workers, and that enabling conditions would be created in states such as Ireland where the collective bargaining rate is less than the threshold of 80%. Such enabling conditions for collective bargaining would be put in place either by law, after consulting the social partners, or by agreement with them. The intention is that there would be an action plan to promote collective bargaining. I would like to know what is in the action plan. Ireland is not just below the 80% threshold - we have a rate of 22% even though research has shown that over two thirds of workers would like to be in a union and would like to engage in collective bargaining. Certain obstacles have been highlighted in that regard. The Minister of State will be aware of the Respect at Work campaign, which has highlighted the issue of union busting and the penalisation of organisers and those who seek to support the organisation of collective bargaining. The campaign has highlighted certain measures that are needed, gaps in the Unfair Dismissals Act and problems in some other parts of our legislation that need to be strengthened to ensure persons feel free and able to join a union. These key things need to be addressed as part of Ireland moving from the very low threshold of 22% towards the 80% goal under the directive.

I wish to highlight Article 5 as a specific focus. It requires EU member states to set the minimum wage at a level for workers which allows them to "[achieve] a decent standard of living, [reduce] in-work poverty, [promote] social cohesion and upward social convergence, and [reduce] the gender-pay gap". There is a reason that the word "adequate" is in the title of the adequate minimum wage directive. Adequacy is the key test of a minimum wage. However, Ireland’s legislation for the Low Pay Commission - the Government has indicated that is where it sees this being addressed – does not include the phrase "adequacy". It is not a test. I am aware of this as I worked for the National Women’s Council of Ireland. When that legislation was going through, we highlighted adequacy as a gap. Instead, the Low Pay Commission is told to consider things like competitiveness and what is fair and sustainable. It is not explicitly asked to consider adequacy. I have tabled a very simple Bill that seeks to add adequacy as one of the factors to be considered by the Low Pay Commission in the setting of the minimum wage. That very small legislative change would make it more possible for the Low Pay Commission to deliver on the obligations under Article 5 of the EU directive, which specifically requires that criteria in respect of adequacy be applied. I ask the Minister of State to address those two articles in particular, as well as the wider question of the transposition.

Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Deputy Emer Higgins)

I thank the Senator for raising this very important issue. The directive on adequate minimum wages in the European Union was published on 19 October 2022. The Senator is correct when she says it must be transposed by 15 November of this year. The directive aims to ensure that workers and unions are protected by adequate minimum wages, allowing for a decent living wherever they work. The Government absolutely welcomed the publication of the directive and has been very supportive of its principles since it was first proposed. My officials have been heavily involved in the negotiations on the directive and are absolutely familiar with our obligations under it. There are three broad categories of obligations under the directive: the setting of minimum wages, the enhancement of collective bargaining coverage, and the improved enforcement and monitoring of wage protections. In considering our options for the transposition, my officials have been involved in bilateral engagements with several other member states as well as attending the European Commission’s transposition workshops aimed at assisting member states in transposing the directive, given the wide variety of approaches to minimum wage setting and collective wage bargaining across Europe.

My Department also received legal advice on minimum wage and collective bargaining elements of the directive to ensure transposition by the mid-November deadline.

Article 4 of the directive, which deals with collective bargaining, is of particular interest to many stakeholders. This article requires member states with a collective bargaining coverage below 80%, such as Ireland, to provide "for a framework of enabling conditions for collective bargaining" and to publish an action plan to promote collective bargaining by the end of 2025. I would like to clarify that this is specifically for states that have less than 80%, but this is not a goal or what is set out in the directive. The Government is fully committed to developing a comprehensive and robust action plan, which is set out in the directive, and will do so in consultation with the social partners.

A working group has been established with Department officials and the social partners to examine what will be considered for inclusion in the plan. This group has met regularly and constructively this year. I also chaired a meeting in September of the LEEF subgroup on employment and enterprise at which the action plan was discussed with the social partners. On 15 October, the Cabinet was informed that my Department will publish the proposals for consultation and observations from interested stakeholders across the wider enterprise and employment sectors. That is consultation on proposals for the action plan. These include proposals arising from the LEEF high-level group report on collective bargaining, and those received from the social partners also. This consultation is to ensure that the views of all stakeholders are considered and included when we are finalising the content of Ireland’s action plan. It signals the Government’s strong commitment to ensuring we develop a comprehensive and robust plan. The feedback from the consultation will inform the future discussions of the working group on the content of the plan.

While my Department’s position is that no legislation is required to transpose Article 4 of the directive, legislation may separately be considered as part of Ireland’s action plan. Article 5 of the directive deals with the procedure for setting adequate statutory minimum wages, as the Senator said. Legal advice suggests that our current minimum wage setting framework, the Low Pay Commission, is already largely in compliance with the provisions of the directive, although there will be some minor amendments to the National Minimum Wage Act 2000 to bring the framework completely into line with the directive. The Government’s commitment to progress to a living wage, calculated as 60% of the median hourly wage, and the recent significant increases in the national minimum wage, a further one of which will commence in January, will help us meet our obligations in relation to the directive’s requirements around adequacy measures and indicative reference values for statutory minimum wages.

I reassure the Senator that the Government remains fully committed to continue to improve terms and conditions for workers. We have done an awful lot in this area in terms of a living wage, auto-enrolment, mandatory sick pay, and the right to request remote working. Most recently we have agreed to increase the national minimum wage from January, which will benefit workers ahead of inflation.

Senator Alice-Mary Higgins

While there have been all these meetings, we are now entering into an election. The transposition will be concluded by November. I am concerned that we would have a minimalist approach to the transposition. I hope the Minister of State can reassure me. She mentioned the action plan. What steps will be taken to ensure that legislative measures are considered within the action plan in respect of Article 4? On Article 5, the Minister of State mentioned being largely in compliance. That is my point. It is largely but not fully in compliance because the Low Pay Commission's mandate lacks reference to adequacy as one of the factors it must consider and on which it must report.

The Minister of State mentioned minor amendments to the National Minimum Wage Act 2000. Will these amendments include explicit reference to the application of criteria in respect of adequacy such that adequacy will be one of the tests? Will there be reporting in respect of the adequacy of the minimum wage?

At EU level, it is the adequate minimum wage directive, not the minimum wage directive. This means adequacy has to be centre stage. That means considering whether these are wages one can live on, not if they are wages that suit competitiveness. It is not a simple back and forth between stakeholders but the principle of wages on which people can live and that are adequate for a decent standard of living for individuals and families. I ask the Minister of State to indicate explicit legislative steps and the steps needed to allow for legislative change under the action plan.

Deputy Emer Higgins

As the Senator sought reassurance, I am absolutely aware of the importance of this directive. Its transposition is a priority for my Department.

As I have stated, we will be taking the necessary steps to ensure transposition happens ahead of 15 November. It is fully our intention to meet that deadline. While my Department’s position is that no legislation is required to do that, legislative change may be considered as part of the development of our action plan on collective bargaining, which must be completed by the end of next year. Work has already begun on developing that plan. As part of the working group’s agenda, the social partners have provided my Department with proposals. That includes proposals from ICTU on protections and access for trade union officials in the workplace and we are now going to consult on those proposals. I believe the outcome of the forthcoming consultation process will help to guide the Department when it comes to developing the proposed actions which may be considered by the Government - or, indeed, the next Government - for inclusion in our action plan. Work is already under way. I met with a number of representatives of ICTU and the private sector unions in Congress House. Those discussions are happening. However, the really important thing is that the consultation is now going to happen, which gives us an additional piece of information when we go to the next stage.

Regarding Article 5 and the adequacy, I thank the Senator for tabling her Bill on that. It is something at which I will absolutely look.

Senator Alice-Mary Higgins

I thank the Minister of State. I lastly suggest that 80% would be a good target.

Deputy Emer Higgins

To clarify, it is not the target.

Acting Chairperson (Senator Martin Conway)

I thanks Senator Higgins for her constant work in this area as part of the EU scrutiny committee. It is much appreciated. It is very detailed and complex but very important. I thank the Minister of State for her time.

Assisted Human Reproduction

Acting Chairperson (Senator Martin Conway)

I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Burke, to this House.

Senator Mary Seery Kearney

I thank the Minister of State to taking this Commencement matter. Last July, we had a fantastic day here when the assisted human reproduction Bill was passed by this House having previously been passed by the Dáil. We had families in this Chamber, along with my own, who celebrated the fact that both parents of children had a way forward in getting the legal recognition they absolutely need and deserve in regard to the parenting and parentage of their children born via surrogacy. We understood at the time that there was going to be a time delay between this coming into law and the commencement of the Act. The regulatory authority needed to be established and there was work to be done by the Department of Justice to ensure the family courts were ready to receive all of the applications. Future surrogacy applicants need the regulatory authority in place. I completely understand that there was always going to be a time lag. Everybody understands that. Like Irish Families Through Surrogacy, I have kept in constant touch with the Minister, Deputy McEntee, to ask about the progress on the role of the Department of Justice. In that regard, we are absolutely assured that the courts are ready and that secondary legislation will be ready and in place for statutory instruments for amendments to court rules should they arise for the presentation of cases to the courts. In recent weeks, Irish Families Through Surrogacy has had conversations with the Department of Health that have reassured us that everything is running along perfectly in the Department. At the same time, representations are being made to Irish Families Through Surrogacy to the effect that no commencement date has been cemented into the future and there is no deadline by which the retrospective applications can be made. There is some toing and froing to the effect that this may be a Department of Justice delay or a courts delay. I spoke with the Minister, Deputy McEntee, as recently as last night. I also went down to the courts to make inquiries. I know it is in the Department of Justice and it is in the courts. I am anxious to know what exactly is delaying the prediction of a commencement date. We need this to be a priority in any future programme for Government. The policy memo with regard to further amending legislation went to the Cabinet and was approved by it, but within that there are requirements with regard to setting aside consents in instances where biological fathers may weaponise their power over children and may refuse consent to the mother or second father of those children to get their parental orders. That secondary legislation needs to come in and needs to be in place.

We are left in a situation where we have no confirmation on when exactly this Bill will be commenced. Meanwhile, there are some families where a biological father has a very serious illness that could result in his death. There are other situations that could arise at any stage. Anyone could be run over by bus tomorrow; we have no means of knowing.

When will we be assured that the children born by surrogacy in this State will have a secure lifelong legal relationship with their second parent? The idea of kicking it to touch and wondering whether a particular individual gets re-elected or not, and turning this into a cloud space where we do not actually know and that this is a floating possibility is not good enough for the parents and families and, most importantly, the rights of children to have that legal relationship with both of their parents and to have that security cemented.

There is no reason we should have to wait for a regulatory authority to be established. In fact, it is a matter of family law and the applications to the court should be able to happen sooner rather than later. Everyone has in their mind the date of 31 March. We could all live with that, but I want a guarantee from the Minister and the Government, before the Taoiseach goes to Phoenix Park, that these families will have certainty very soon in their future.

Minister of State at the Department of Health (Deputy Colm Burke)

I thank the Senator for raising this matter. I know she is very passionate about it and, in fact, has been instrumental in getting the changes about which she spoke. Unfortunately, the Minister, Deputy Donnelly, is unavailable to take this Commencement matter and has asked me to take it on his behalf.

I thank the Senator for giving me the opportunity to inform the House of the up-to-date position in respect of the Health (Assisted Human Reproduction) Act 2024, the upcoming second amendment Bill and the setting up of the Assisted Human Reproduction Regulatory Authority, AHRRA. I also thank the Senator for her continued commitment on this issue and, indeed, the insights and knowledge she consistently lends to debates and discussions on this matter and related issues.

As the Senator is well aware, the Health (Assisted Human Reproduction) Act 2024 was signed into law by the President on 2 July 2024 having passed all Stages in the Oireachtas. I thank the Senator and colleagues for their support throughout the Oireachtas process. The issues covered by the legislation have been widely discussed and examined, including on Committee Stage and Report Stage in the Dáil and by the special Oireachtas Joint Committee on International Surrogacy. Some of the issues that arose require further consideration.

The Minister, Deputy Donnelly, committed to bringing forward a supplementary Bill for inclusion in the Dáil's autumn legislative programme. Last month, the Government approved the drafting of this supplementary Bill based on a general scheme of what is proposed to be titled the health (assisted human reproduction) (amendment) Bill 2024. The Bill was placed on the priority drafting list. I am pleased to say that the formal drafting process for this Bill is under way. The drafting, led by the Office of the Parliamentary Counsel, is being conducted in conjunction with the Department of Health, the Department of Justice and the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth. As is customary, the Bill will be subject to further consultation with legal advice from the Office of the Attorney General.

I will also point out that in parallel with this drafting work, intensive efforts are ongoing in respect of commencing the AHR Act, including with regard to the readiness of the Courts Service to begin hearing applications for parental orders for surrogacy and also the establishment of the regulatory authority. In this regard, the Courts Service has provided up-to-date information to advise that work is well under way on the rules of court for so-called retrospective surrogacy cases. Indeed, draft versions of these rules have already been circulated to the relevant Departments. It is hoped that a finalised version of these rules might be adopted before the end of quarter 1 2025 and subsequently transferred to the Minister for Justice for consideration.

The Act also, of course, provides for the establishment of the new regulatory authority, namely, the AHRRA. The AHR Act is complex legislation.

The new authority, as the agency specifically responsible for oversight and regulation, will be central in embedding safe and appropriate clinical AHR practices and associated research activities in Ireland.

Work is under way in the Department of Health to enable the establishment of the authority as soon as possible. The early appointment of a chief executive officer and identification of suitable candidates for appointment to the board of the authority will be essential to drive the start-up phase of the organisation. These appointments will serve to implement the strategies, policies and procedures necessary to enable the authority to fulfil the statutory mandate provided in the Act. The process of identification of suitable candidates by the Public Appointments Service and State boards is likely to take several months to complete. The aim of the Department is to ensure the core team and statutory board are in place in the first half of 2025.

As the Senator is aware, the interim period refers to surrogacy arrangements undertaken between the commencement of the retrospective provisions of the AHR Act and the prospective provisions on domestic and international surrogacy. The potential option of commencing the retrospective provisions before the prospective provisions has been one that the three Departments have continued to explore in the context of ongoing intensive work by the Courts Service in respect of the establishment of the AHRRA. However, it is not possible to be definitive at this time about whether this will ultimately be the course of action taken. Therefore, as part of the formal drafting process, which has been and is complex, the three Departments, in conjunction with the Office of the Parliamentary Counsel, will continuously review this aspect to see what, if any, specific provisions have to be made in respect of any interim period that emerges from any final decision on the respective commencement dates.

Senator Mary Seery Kearney

I thank the Minister of State. With respect, he is not the Minister who is responsible for this. My remarks are not directed at him, but that response was an absolute load of twaddle. We were of the view that this would happen by the end of the first quarter of next year. If it is now to be inextricably linked not just to the appointment of a CEO to the AHRRA but also a load of officials, which will not happen before the end of the first half of next year, we are then looking at somewhere in the autumn of next year, at the earliest, before any families can apply for their retrospective parental orders. In the meantime, those families have children who are in precarious positions with regard to having a parent with whom they have a legal relationship for the entirety of their lives.

Commitments were made on the floor of this House by the Minister that there would be no delays with regard to retrospective applications. What I am hearing is an absolute and utter disgrace. It has misled people. The Department of Justice is not the delay here and neither are the courts; I know that for a fact. Officials are passionate about the establishment of this, but my child will be ten next May. There are children who are aged 13, 14 or 15. At this stage, we will not have parental orders for them before they turn 18. The idea that the two are absolutely linked and that the AHRRA has to be fully established before there are retrospective orders is completely contrary to everything the Minister said on Committee Stage in the Dáil and in this House. We are left with an open-ended situation that is utterly deceptive in bringing parents to this stage. Parents have been terribly misled. The level of anxiety out there in the community that they will never get their parental orders, and this will be kicked to touch for a number of years, is just appalling. It has to end.

My party has commitments going into its manifesto. I expect that everybody in the Government has the same. It is not dependent on any one individual that this has to be a priority for the next government. The response is unacceptable.

Deputy Colm Burke

I understand where the Senator is coming from. She has done a huge amount of work over a long number of years on this issue, which is important. It is also important that we cross all the t's and dot all the i's to make sure that there is no constitutional challenge. We are talking about retrospective orders, which are always a challenge in relation to anything that is done in the whole legal process.

The Minister is determined to seek a way to speedily and appropriately resolve the predicaments and uncertainties faced by parents of existing children born through surrogacy. It is completely understandable if these parents are frustrated in waiting for their opportunity to apply to the courts for a parental order.

However, it has to be borne in mind that the lengthy and far-reaching assisted human reproduction legislation covers a wide range of activities in addition to surrogacy, including rapidly advancing areas of medicine that require regulation. The consensus view of the Ministers, Deputies Donnelly, McEntee and O'Gorman, is that the speed with which the legislation has been prepared, drafted and passed in recent years and will now be commenced, compares extremely favourably with other policy projects, many of which did not involve such significant changes in court procedures nor the setting up of a brand-new regulatory authority.

The Minister, Deputy Donnelly, wishes to reassure Senators he is advancing the commencement of this much-needed piece of historic legislation as quickly as possible in order to ensure the goal of providing for a route to formal recognition by the State of approved surrogacy arrangements is achieved and that a robust regulatory framework for assisted human reproduction more broadly is put in place.

I understand where Senator Seery Kearney is coming from, as I said earlier. I also understand that Departments have to be extremely careful about any constitutional challenge on this issue. In fairness, it is important that we get every part of this right. Perhaps assurances were given but if issues have arisen it is important that we resolve them in the best possible way and make sure everything is in order when the final process proceeds on each and every one of these applications.

Senator Mary Seery Kearney

I understand this but, with due respect, it is not about a plinth moment for any Minister promising families they will have their legal assurances. A promise like this has been made with a commitment on time and this has been reneged on.

Acting Chairperson (Senator Martin Conway)

We all agree with Senator Seery Kearney and acknowledge the massive amount of work she has done in this area in recent years. I thank the Minister of State.

Water Safety

Acting Chairperson (Senator Martin Conway)

I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Lawless.

Senator Malcolm Byrne

Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire Stáit. I want to raise the question of support for community rescue boats, in particular Cahore Inshore Rescue Service. It is in a part of the world with which we are both quite familiar. It is a beautiful part of the world with a great deal of wonderful coastline. Cahore Inshore Rescue Service provides a vital service to the north Wexford community. It works very closely with the Coast Guard based out of Courtown. It is a volunteer service that was formed almost 30 years ago following a tragic local drowning. It is very active in our local community. It is on call 24-7 every day of the year in case, unfortunately, we see problems on our waters.

The only funding it receives from the Government, like many of these services throughout the country, including a number of mountain rescue services, is a grant of €5,000 annually from the Minister of State's Department. This grant has not been increased in 15 years and it is the same for all of these services. Cahore Inshore Rescue Service's annual running costs are something of the order of €25,000 every year. This is similar to the other services. The €5,000 grant will barely cover the cost of insurance to provide what is a vital service. If Cahore Inshore Rescue Service was not providing the service, the pressure would come on the State to provide it instead.

The big question I want to ask is not so much about the ongoing costs, although certainly an increase in the grant would be appreciated, it is about significant capital costs. Cahore Inshore Rescue Service maintains its coastal station but the big cost it has at present is the need for a replacement lifeboat. This will cost something in the order of €125,000. As the current boat is more than 15 years old, we can appreciate the urgency.

What is important, given the Minister of State's Department is providing the funding in this area for all these community rescue boats in the country - this is the only one on the east coast but there are quite a number along the southern coast and especially up along the west coast - is that when they face some of these major capital costs, there is some funding stream to which they can apply to address a challenge such as the need to purchase a new boat. No other source of funding is available to them in terms of the LEADER programme or the LCDC programmes locally. Cahore, like all other areas in County Wexford, does not qualify for CLÁR funding because it is not an area of population decline. There is no other source of funding other than, respectfully, through the Minister of State's Department.

My question concerns the basic ongoing running costs and what supports can be made available to this group and to the community lifeboats in the form of the existing €5,000 grant but also, specifically, where some of these organisations doing vital work can apply for capital funding. It will not be needed regularly. As we have seen, the boat has been there for more than 15 years. Such funding will only be needed when there is a big cost, like a major repair to a building or a boat. Councillor Pip Breen, who is from the area and is cathaoirleach of Wexford County Council, has also been raising this issue. The Minister of State and I are both extremely familiar with the locality and I hope he might be able to give us some positive news.

Minister of State at the Department of Transport (Deputy James Lawless)

I thank the Senator for raising this important issue. I acknowledge his continued advocacy for north Wexford, in particular, and not just concerning coastal issues, although these are very much at the forefront of this debate, but also for the region, the constituency and the people and communities there. As the Senator did, I also acknowledge Councillor Pip Breen, who has corresponded with me on this matter as well. I know it is something close to his heart as well. As the Senator said, I do know the area well because I grew up nearby. I fished off Cahore Pier as a child and did lifesaving lessons in Courtown and Cahore. Many members of my family have used the facilities there over the years. It is an important and popular location for leisure activities and, more importantly, the kinds of search and rescue operations the Senator spoke about in his contribution, particularly the Cahore Inshore Rescue Service that provides such an important service.

This fits into the wider framework of my Department in that voluntary rescue boats, such as the Cahore Inshore Rescue Service, perform an important role in the maritime search and rescue system, thereby contributing to the safe enjoyment of our natural marine environment. The national search and rescue plan published in 2019 describes the overall national search and rescue ecosystem in Ireland and details how the different services and service providers interact with each other and what mechanisms are there to provide safe services. The Irish Coast Guard, which comes under my remit, is the principal emergency service and division. As the Senator knows, it is located within the Department of Transport. The Coast Guard is the first port of call, with responsibility for maritime search and rescue, maritime casualty and pollution prevention at sea. The Coast Guard delivers this service through its own search and rescue resources such as the four contracted helicopter bases, rescue boat teams, cliff rescue teams and shoreline search and drone teams.

I had the pleasure of visiting Kilmore Quay Coast Guard station earlier in the summer, as well as several other Coast Guard stations, including Rosslare and others gathered that day in south County Wexford. Their bases are down there. The Coast Guard service also has agreements with a certain number of operators like the RNLI. I am very familiar, for example, with the Courtown team. I know Áine Stafford from old and she is to the fore in leading that operation, along with many others there. The RNLI and the 11 voluntary community rescue boat operators, of which Cahore Inshore Rescue Service is one, are very important parts of that wider system too. They have arrangements to work together with the Coast Guard.

These operators are classed and described as declared assets to the Irish Coast Guard when they are provisioned. They declare a level of capacity and can then be directly tasked to respond to incidents. Effectively, they are delegated under Coast Guard control for certain responses and incidents, notwithstanding their commitment and the epic levels of heroism, voluntarism and determination they demonstrate. The Coast Guard recently published guidelines for the operation of such declared rescue boats. These guidelines established, for the first time, a common standard for the operation of rescue boats that may be tasked directly by the Coast Guard for maritime search and rescue such as the type we are talking about.

That is a significant and important step to improve safety and co-operation across the maritime search and rescue system and recognise the key role of voluntary community rescue boats. Indeed, they all contributed to those guidelines.

It is also important to note that the statutory body with overall responsibility for voluntary community rescue boat organisations is Water Safety Ireland. Its responsibility extends to operators that may not have a formal agreement with the Coast Guard but that provide such services locally or on an ad hoc basis. As the Senator indicated, the Department administers a maintenance grant to declared voluntary rescue boat operators such as Cahore Inshore Rescue Service. This is usually in the region of €5,000 and is paid in accordance with Department of public expenditure and reform circulars. The grant is intended to support, as the Senator knows, current expenditure by those organisations.

The Senator raised a valid, legitimate and important query about capital spending for a new boat, in this instance, or for storage equipment, facilities and other situations that I am familiar with. The question is valid because the existing system is geared towards maintenance and current funding. However, the Senator and Cahore Inshore Rescue want to know about capital funding. I have engaged with the Department. I am coming to the punchline, if the Acting Chair will bear with me for a moment. The guidelines I mentioned will all boost standards in this area and help the wider system to work more efficiently. I have engaged with the Department on this, as did my predecessor. The Department is carrying out a review of the annual grant to ensure that it is sufficient to meet the level of demand and that these community rescue boats can continue to be supported in the way they need to be.

Senator Malcolm Byrne

I appreciate the Minister of State’s response. I could also ask about the Courtown Coast Guard unit, but we are specifically talking about the issue with Cahore. I welcome the fact that we have standards for these rescue boats, but in order to be able to meet these standards, we have to ensure the boats are in good condition. There is fundraising for ongoing regular costs, but it is not feasible for a small group like this to be able to fundraise for the purchase of a boat. While I welcome the commitment of a review within the Department, it is a matter of urgency for Cahore that some sort of capital programme is put in place by the Department, not just for this community rescue boat service but also for others, in order that when there is a major capital cost, such a scheme is in place to help meet the standards that are rightly set out by the Coast Guard. These are volunteers who do incredibly important work on behalf of the State. They are involved in saving lives and in ensuring coastal safety. It is critically important that the State responds and provides the necessary moneys they can apply for in order to be able to fund capital purchases.

Deputy James Lawless

Like the Senator, I praise the volunteers of the Cahore team, the Courtown team and the many other teams. What he had to say is very important and I have taken it on board. I refer here not just to what he has said today but also to the continuous representations he has made to me on this issue since I assumed this role earlier this summer. I very much take those points on board and I take them very seriously. I conveyed that to my Department and I asked that the review be fast-tracked in so far as it can. I absolutely hear the Senator's point about the need for capital expenditure be included within some form of a new scheme. I will take that away and do my best to deliver on it in the time I have left in this role.

Acting Chairperson (Senator Martin Conway)

It is not the first time the Senator highlighted this important issue. We will now suspend proceedings.

Cuireadh an Seanad ar fionraí ar 1.58 p.m. agus cuireadh tús leis arís ar 2.02 p.m.

Sitting suspended at 1.58 p.m. and resumed at 2.02 p.m.