Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine debate -
Tuesday, 24 Feb 2015

Vote 30 - Agriculture, Food and the Marine (Revised)

Chairman

I welcome the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Deputy Simon Coveney and his officials. I thank the officials for the briefing material. I advise members, the Minister and officials that they must turn off their mobile telephones.

As members will have seen, the Revised Estimate for 2015 was presented to the Dáil in the new programme-based format. This means that the Revised Estimate as presented contains the following information for each programme: how the money allocated to that programme is proposed to be spent and the previous year's outturn in each case; the numbers of staff assigned to work connected with the programme and how this compares to the previous year; and performance related information, including departmental outputs, again with corresponding information for the previous year and what are termed performance and impact indictors with previous year's information.

The administrative expenditure for the Vote as a whole is summarised in more detail than previously. The Revised Estimate gives the select committee an opportunity to review whether targets set and the distribution of moneys across the Vote for 2015 are appropriate in all the circumstances and demonstrate the best use of the resource. It also gives us an opportunity to explore issues facing the Minister in terms of the 2015 allocation for his Department.

I propose that following the Minister's opening statement, we will consider the Revised Estimate subhead by subhead and take questions from members.

Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine (Deputy Simon Coveney)

The agrifood sector is playing a considerable role in our economic recovery. The sector remains Ireland’s largest indigenous industry and accounts for almost one in nine jobs, mainly in rural and coastal areas where few other employment opportunities exist.

Bord Bia recently confirmed a fifth consecutive year of growth in agrifood exports. The value of Ireland’s food and drink exports grew by some 4% during 2014 and reached almost €10.5 billion, which is another all-time high. This is some €3.2 billion higher than in 2009, an increase of over 45%. In this context I was pleased to secure an increase of almost €42 million in Exchequer funding compared to 2014 to invest in the agrifood sector. The Exchequer contribution to the Vote of my Department will amount to €1,260 million in 2015. This figure is made up of €1,044 million in current expenditure and €216 million in capital spending. This is the first in a series of six budgets where the Exchequer contribution to the agriculture Vote will be increased in order to facilitate the implementation of both the rural development programme, RDP, and the European Maritime and Fisheries Fund, EMFF.

The second element to the financing of the sector for this year and the coming years concerns taxation. Following on from the publication of the agri-taxation review, the Minister for Finance announced, in his 2015 Budget Statement, a suite of taxation measures which are intended to assist in the modernisation of farming, provide for increased land mobility, assist succession and broaden the period over which income averaging relief may be claimed.

These measures are timely and will support the continued development of the sector and our aims under Food Harvest 2020.

In addition to allocated Exchequer funding, Ireland will also receive €1.215 billion in direct funding from the EU for the basic payment scheme, or €7.2 billion over the lifetime of the CAP agreement 2014 to 2019. Furthermore, the rural development programme will deliver an additional €4 billion of EU and national funding in the period up to 2020. My overarching priority for 2015 is to deliver the first part of the Government's commitments to the farming and fishing sectors in the commencement of actions under the new rural development and seafood development programmes. These supports will support the incomes of family farms and prioritise vulnerable sectors, particularly those areas of natural constraints to which I have allocated €195 million in 2015; that is formerly DAS. The rural development programme, or RDP, will be a key support in enhancing the competitiveness of the agrifood sector, achieving more sustainable management of natural resources and ensuring a more balanced development of rural areas. We are awaiting formal approval of the programme from the Commission. In the meantime, I have secured Exchequer funding of €439 million for capital and current expenditure on RDP schemes.

One of the most significant elements of the rural development programme is the continued commitment to agri-environment schemes. In 2015, approximately €120 million is being provided, €52 million of which is effectively to close out REPS, while €70 million will be paid out under AEOS. Almost 17,000 and 15,000 farmers respectively will receive payments under these schemes. I was pleased to launch last week the new green low carbon agri-environment scheme, or GLAS as people now know it. GLAS is intended to build on the success of the earlier programmes and encourage farmers to farm in an environmentally sustainable manner. GLAS will be a five year scheme with a maximum payment of €5,000 per annum, with the potential to qualify for a top-up payment of up to €2,000 per annum. Funding in 2015 provides for the opening of the scheme to some 30,000 entrants and for part-year payments to be made. When fully open, the scheme will support up to 50,000 farmers and require funding of €250 million per year.

A strong and focused on-farm investment scheme remains a priority and in 2015 this will be delivered through TAMS 2, which is the second generation targeted agricultural modernisation scheme. For 2015, I am allocating some €34 million to TAMS, which represents a 100% increase on last year's budget. This will provide for final payments on TAMS 1 as well as a new farm safety scheme for which I am providing once-off funding of €12 million. Tragedy struck too many Irish farm families in 2014. Conscious of the loss of life and injuries sustained on farms in recent years, particularly during 2014, I opened the farm safety scheme in October of last year. The grant rate is 40% up to a maximum eligible investment ceiling of €20,000; that is, the maximum grant is €8,000. Almost 6,300 grant applications have been received in my Department. Over 4,000 of these are already processed and approvals are being issued on a continual basis.

This year is set to be an extraordinary one for the dairy sector. The ending of the milk quota regime next month will free Irish farmers from the shackles of quota. With opportunity, however, comes a requirement for investment. My Department will be inviting applications to avail of grant funding for capital investments in 2015, including a new dairy equipment scheme to support the sector in its expansion plans. As with the beef sector, I am proposing the establishment of discussion groups for the dairy sector in 2015 as part of the rural development programme. Payments under the programme will not be made until 2016, however. The plan is for 5,000 entrants to dairy discussion groups next year. This will serve as an essential learning experience in the post-quota environment.

Ireland is the largest net exporter of beef in the northern hemisphere and this is testament to the efforts of all stakeholders in this vital sector. As a consequence of the importance my Department places on the beef industry, coupled with an acknowledgement of the difficult year experienced in 2014, I have again given particular priority to providing the kind of support that can contribute to restoring confidence to this sector. I am pleased that we were in a position to fund support measures worth in excess of €73 million in 2015. The cornerstone of this support package is a significant increase in the funding allocated to the new beef data and genomics programme, BDGP, from €23 million to €52 million. This 126% increase will place Ireland to the international forefront of genetic improvements in beef and will make an important contribution to improving the carbon efficiency of Irish production. As I announced on budget day, my intention is to have a two-tier payment under the BDGP, that is, €100 for the first ten animals on the farm and €80 thereafter. Obviously these payments are subject to the agreement of the European Commission in the context of the overall scheme and discussions on these issues are ongoing. The payment levels are also of course subject to the overall budget limit of the scheme.

A sum of €9 million will also be paid to approximately 36,000 farmers under the beef data programme, BDP. This programme assists farmers in improving the genetic quality of their livestock while maintaining a flow of crucial data to the Irish Cattle Breeding Federation that will generate further advances in cattle breeding at national level. The estimate also includes provision of €1.6 million for the Irish Cattle Breeding Federation to support continued breed improvement in the beef and dairy sectors and €0.5 million is being provided to compensate for the removal of persistently infected calves under the BVD compensation scheme. I have also allocated an additional €1 million to Bord Bia for the marketing of beef given the challenges that we had last year. The ongoing development of the knowledge base in the sector will continue to be supported. The beef technology adoption programme, BTAP, has been an outstanding success and a further €1 million is provided for such payments in 2015. The new knowledge transfer measure for the beef sector, provided in the RDP, will also open to farmers next year and I expect payments to be made under that programme in 2016.

The sheep sector continues to experience challenges. Consequently, I am providing funding for a continuation of the sheep technology adoption programme, STAP, into a third year. This programme provides for the establishment of discussion groups among sheep farmers, similar to the model used for other groups. Funding of €4 million is provided for the programme in 2015. The number of producers participating and the positive feedback from participants attests to the success of the programme to date. I have also announced, as part of the RDP, that the STAP structure will become a knowledge transfer group for sheep from 2016 onwards with an expected 4,000 participants starting that year. I am also maintaining the provision of some €540,000 for the improvement of breeding in the sheep sector through Sheep Ireland.

TAMS II funding will also be made available for the pig and poultry sectors reflecting the need for investment in these sectors. I am also prioritising innovation as part of the smart agenda through a substantial fund for research, development and training amounting to €28 million under the FIRM, Stimulus and Forestry Funds and Teagasc training courses. I will also be maintaining our focus on food safety and animal health and welfare with a provision of some €82 million overall. Our justifiable reputation for food safety and quality standards has led to the opening of both the American and the Chinese markets to Irish beef in recent months, which is a really good practical example of why high food safety standards are so important. In addition to the specific allocations already mentioned, I have provided €144 million to fund Teagasc and Bord Bia in 2015. These agencies have central roles to play in improving the profitability of the beef sector across the range of their activities.

Taking account of the fact that the Irish bloodstock industry is of enormous economic benefit to this country, I have increased State support to the horse and greyhound industry by €14 million to €68 million.

It has been estimated that the industry provides in excess of 14,000 jobs, approximately €1.1 billion in economic output and is responsible for exports worth in excess of €200 million. That represents money that is pretty well spent.

The greyhound industry employs more than 10,000 people. Since 2002, in excess of more than 10 million people have attended greyhound racing meetings. The industry contributes some €500 million in economic output to local economies around the tracks which have a wide geographical spread. The increase in State support to both industries is in recognition of the significant shortfall in funding going into the horse and greyhound sectors in recent years as a result of the downturn in the economy. With the introduction of the online betting tax, the Government will provide an additional €6 million a year to the horse and greyhound fund.

I am anxious to unlock the significant potential of the marine sector for export growth and employment. I will shortly be launching Ireland’s new seafood development programme for the period up to 2020. Following months of intense lobbying and negotiation, I secured a contribution of €148 million to Ireland’s programme from the new European Maritime and Fisheries Fund, EMFF, for the period 2014 to 2020. It is worth noting that in the previous seven years the figure was €70 million. Therefore, the contribution secured represents more than a doubling of that fund. Together with matching Exchequer funding, this will enable me to launch a €241 million EMFF programme in 2015.

The majority of funding under the new seafood development programme will be focused on the further sustainable development and growth of our seafood industry. Some €142 million of the total fund will be available for this sectoral development, which is more than twice the €66 million available under the previous programme for that same purpose.

The new EMFF programme will also directly fund €46 million in new investments to support our capacity to enforce the Common Fisheries Policy and ensure a level playing field for all fishermen. In addition, €41 million will be provided to improve the science that supports our fisheries management, together with €11 million for implementation of the new EU Integrated Maritime Policy and €1.3 million for storage aid supports.

I am making available €15 million in 2015 to commence investment measures under the new seafood development programme and this will rise significantly in following years as the programme is rolled out. Separately, I am also making available approximately €9 million in 2015 to complete the final year of the current seafood development programme. I have also allocated some €11.5 million of capital expenditure to be invested in fishery harbour works.

Having experienced the positive outcome of the agri-taxation review, my colleague the Minister for Finance and I proposed a similar exercise for the marine sector. Under the Harnessing Our Ocean Wealth strategy, the Government has set a target of doubling the value of Ireland’s blue economy by 2030 and I am keen to ensure there is a supportive financial environment underpinning this target. A working group, led by the Department of Finance and consisting of my Department, the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport and the Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation will oversee the review and I will liaise with other Government Departments and agencies, including with the Marine Co-ordination Group.

The forestry sector receives the largest share of the public capital programme expenditure of my Department and I have provided some €110 million for this purpose in 2015. The Government recently approved a new forestry programme up to 2020, the objective of which is to support the planting of over 43,000 hectares of new forests. The measures to which I have referred today demonstrate the Government's commitment to the agriculture, marine and forestry sectors. We are now in a position to implement actions under the new rural development and seafood development programmes, which, I hope, will leave a lasting legacy in these sectors, and make a significant contribution to the further development of these important pillars of Irish society and, in particular, to the rural and regional economies.

I will happily answer any question members may have. I apologise for the length of the presentation but there is a good deal happening.

Chairman

It covered all the areas. I understand the Minister has to conclude here in an hour.

We have four programmes plus the administrative programme so if we want to go through subheads we can do so but we will only have approximately 15 minutes per subhead. I ask everybody to confine their comments to questions and I suggest three minutes each for the opening contributions.

Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív

I only have a few comments. I am going through the subheads and I do not think the Minister will be changing his budget now as it is too late. Accordingly, it is as well to focus on a number of specific issues today. I always feel these meetings would be a lot more useful before the Estimates are finalised, and now we have the Revised Estimates.

On the first page mention is made of taxation. This is not strictly the Minister's function but he brought up the subject. Can he get us figures from his colleague, the Minister for Finance, or from the Revenue Commissioners, as to what farmer-specific schemes actually exist? How many farmers avail of the schemes each year? It is important to get a fix on this issue. We always talk about taxation but I would like to know how many of these measures affect how many people. I suspect a lot of other people would like to know that too.

On page 2, in respect of a financial issue, it states, "We will deliver an additional €4 billion of EU and national funding in the period up to 2020". We discussed this before but the Minister might clarify the matter again for me. Does the year mean 2020 or 2023 in terms of the actual payout? Is it n, n + 2 or n + 3? It makes a difference if it is spread over the period from now to 2020 or from now to 2023, particularly as we are in 2015. It then states, "€52 million will be paid out to REPS farmers this year and €70 million to AEOS farmers, of which there are almost 17,000 and 15,000 respectively". On the figure of 15,000, the Minister, in a reply to a parliamentary question I raised on 12 February 2015, stated that there were 19,272 farmers between AEOS 1, 2 and 3. He might account for the 4,272 farmers missing there.

I understand the Minister opened GLAS at the weekend.

Deputy Simon Coveney

GLAS opened as of yesterday.

Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív

I have not had a chance to read all the conditions but am I right that there is a closing date in the middle of May?

Deputy Simon Coveney

Yes. The planned closing date is 15 May. I will answer all the questions together.

Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív

I think I saw that there were about 400 planners in the country. If that is the case it means approximately 100 plans per person between now and the middle of May.

Deputy Simon Coveney

There are 400 planners in the country outside Teagasc, who have taken on a lot of extra people to work with them.

Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív

How many have they got?

Deputy Simon Coveney

I will come back to the Deputy with my replies in a moment. I just wanted to correct the record on that point.

Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív

Even if there is double that number it means there are 50 plans per planner, on average, and they have to get area aid and everything else done in the meantime, as well as deal with AEOS and REPS and so on. If the Minister looks at what planners get paid he will be able to figure out how many days it takes them to do a plan and he will find out that there is not enough time to do 30,000 or 40,000 plans. Is the Minister confident there is enough capacity to get them all done by the middle of May?

Is it the Minister's intention to have a later closing date for those with commonages in view of the huge difficulties and delays that will be involved in, first, getting planners who are willing to do commonages and, second, getting agreement on the commonages between the farmers as to which of the planners would be used to draw up the plan for the commonage? There is a strong view that the commonage plans will be unattractive. Farmers are wondering whether the Minister is willing to have a later closing date for commonage farmers and if he will reserve a certain number of places for them because they believe they are not in a position to compete timewise with those on low land who are in a much more attractive position.

Another question that arises relates to GLAS. If a farmer participates in GLAS this year and has two years left in AEOS, my understanding is that he will be paid only for three years in GLAS. Will the Minister confirm if that is provided for in the regulations or if it is a rule made by him? As the Minister is aware, there are huge concerns regarding penalties for farmers, which have a big effect on all of the accounts he has given, in respect of land eligibility issues and what appears to be a determined effort by the Department to dramatically reduce eligible land in semi-natural areas. Perhaps he can tell the committee what financial effect that is likely to have on the Estimates if what has happened in south Galway is continued throughout the country. Will he confirm that it is intended to have 300 inspections on farms with commonages? Will he also confirm the situation in areas where farmers have been precluded from grazing in the winter following which the inspectors say there is no farm activity on the land?

Deputy Thomas Pringle

I have a couple of questions on subhead A13, CEDRA - rural innovation and development fund for which €1 million is provided under current expenditure.

Deputy Simon Coveney

What is that?

Deputy Thomas Pringle

It is subhead A13, CEDRA, for which €1 million is provided under current expenditure. What is it for and what is it intended to support? Will capital funding be provided in terms of a rural innovation and development fund?

In his introduction the Minister mentioned the seafood development programme. Will there be a focus on job creation because the experience of many people in Donegal, particularly in respect of the seafood development fund, is that there have been job losses as processors have automated and reduced the actual number of people working. One of the bones of contention is that funding is always announced as supporting so many jobs but then jobs are lost because of the development rather than being created. Will there be a change in focus in that area?

With regard to subhead C7.6 - environmental compliance in the fisheries sector - I note a shift in emphasis from capital to administration with a significant increase in current expenditure. What is the reason for that and what does the change involve?

Deputy Simon Coveney

What heading is that?

Deputy Thomas Pringle

Subhead C7.6 - environmental compliance in the fisheries sector.

Chairman

I call Deputy Willie Penrose.

Deputy Willie Penrose

I thank the Minister for appearing before the committee. When I was Chairman I never bothered about programmes. It is a rolling wall in this type of situation.

Chairman

That is a good analogy.

Deputy Simon Coveney

The problem is I have to respond to it.

Deputy Willie Penrose

I have four specific questions. The first is on the beef data and genomics programme. Coming from the midlands, the Minister should not be surprised that I ask about it. When is it likely that the first tranche of payments will be made under that scheme? I understand it is €100 for the first ten animals on the farm and €80 thereafter.

The Chairman and the committee have paid much attention recently to the farm safety programme. Up to €12.2 million has been allocated to it with 6,300 farmers applying for it. All remedial safety works must be completed by 31 August 2015, six months from now. The Department is processing applications with 4,000 already complete. The problem is the difference between processing an application and issuing the approval, a problem for which the blame lies with the Department. The Minister can do a public relations blitz, claiming he has 90% of the applications processed. However, getting the approval out to individual farmers to enable them to set in train their farm safety works, such as roofing or fencing off silage pits, is a different matter. How quickly can the Department get the approvals out?

I congratulate the Minister on his achievements in securing access for Irish beef exports back into the American and Chinese markets. What level of exports does the Minister anticipate achieving for the Chinese market? I know the Chinese authorities will send an inspection team for its final approval. How soon will the market be open for Irish exports? I know a grey market existed in this area for a few years. How much will this new development make it a more profitable market?

Potentially, 50,000 farmers will apply for GLAS, the green low-carbon agri-environment scheme. I was a farm planner myself back in the 1980s. I know if one gets bogged down in the bureaucracy that is often attached to some of these schemes, no matter how good a planner one is, one will be held up for weeks. Will the Minister streamline the bureaucracy?

A recent report stated the average payment in GLAS could be as low as €3,000, while the Minister was hoping the minimum payment would be €5,000. The 15 May deadline is pretty tight. It will have to be subject to some degree of elasticity. Is it true farmers will not be able to split a parcel of land to carry out different measures on separate field areas? Will they lose out as a result of this rule? These are the technical conditions which can see an applicant going down to €2,500 in a payment. I want to see people getting the maximum payment of €5,000 without the bureaucracy scribbling away trying to reduce it by 40% to 50%.

Deputy Tom Barry

When does the Minister see the Leader funding starting on the ground? An allocation of €28 million has been made for research and training. This is an important area. Does the Minister regard the allocation as sufficient? An allocation of €800,000 has been given for biofuel initiatives. What are these? Can we move on from the miscanthus disaster in the past? While we have heard much talk about prices in the dairy industry, the Minister must remember tillage is also undergoing problems with prices. Teagasc funding has increased from €1.08 million to €1.13 million.

It states here that this has to do with the increased cost of retirements. It seems terrible to be increasing the Vote yet getting no extra feet on the ground. I know it is a legacy issue, but when is the Minister considering net hiring of people into Teagasc?

The funding for the World Food Programme is kept the same at €9,960,000. Would it be possible for any of the milk or milk products that went over quota to go into that? I am just curious.

General legal expenses went from €2.5 million to €3.3 million. Can we have an outline of what these were? It is quite a significant increase, of around €800,000. Is there any breakdown of what these expenses are or are they kept private? I think that is on page 26.

Could the Minister give us guidelines on what sort of projects would be considered for the CEDRA fund, which is €1 million? There will be farmers and people who would like to diversify and would like to know these. Maybe they are already available but I am not aware of them.

Deputy Martin Heydon

I thank the Minister for coming in for what are largely very positive Estimates. I welcome the opening of GLAS ahead of time, as expected. I can see the challenges associated with that timeline, but great effort is being made to open it as soon as possible.

From the point of view of the beef sector, that is great news about China. I congratulate the Minister and his officials on that and thank them for the significant work that went on behind the scenes. Given the 126% increase in money for beef through the data and genomics scheme, it might be an opportune time for the Minister to give us his view on the current position of the beef sector. This is a major shot in the arm for it, but in light of the increase to this scheme and the difficult year the industry had last year, it would be interesting to hear his view on that. Knowledge transfer is also referenced in the Minister's address. I hope the maximum amount of that money goes to the primary producer and the farmer and that we keep the costs of facilitation to a minimum, particularly in light of the increase that is coming to Teagasc.

An increase of €14 million for the bloodstock industry is welcomed. It is necessary on the basis of some of the cuts made five or six years ago. A huge effort has been made to protect our industry and as soon as money is available it will be very much welcomed for that industry, which employs 14,000 people but has the potential to employ over 20,000, as it did in the past. I know it is intended for HRI, but the Minister might outline how he envisages that extra money being spent. Does he see capital projects as part of that expenditure? The increase in money allocated to horse welfare is also to be welcomed, but the Minister might also outline how he sees that extra money being spent.

Deputy Pat Deering

I welcome the number of schemes introduced this year. GLAS, in particular, was announced last week. The challenge in respect of GLAS will be to get as many farmers as possible into the scheme and ensuring they get as much as possible out of it as fast as possible. Is there a plan in place to do that?

The next issue is farm safety. There is major concern about that. Is the Minister planning to introduce a special part of the knowledge transfer scheme where farm safety may be involved in this scheme, whether compulsory or otherwise? We discussed this at a previous meeting and it was referred to earlier. It might be the way to go. Has the Minister considered any options in that regard?

The targeted agricultural modernisation scheme, TAMS, will be announced in a month or six weeks.

The criteria for TAMS was previously very rigid. The Minister's statement mentioned the opportunities for the dairy sector involved in TAMS. Will it be specific dairy equipment for example, or is there a list of issues that could come under that area? For example, if a farmer wanted to improve his roadway structure, would that qualify under TAMS?

There is a proposed increase in spending on the control of horses in the coming year. Is this money that is specifically allocated to local authorities for horses that may be running wild in the urban areas? It is a huge problem in urban areas whereby horses are left go wild and it then falls back on somebody to tidy it up. The somebody is the local authority and there is a cost involved in that. In my own town of Carlow, it is an ongoing issue whereby so-called stray horses are left to be looked after. It is a huge cost. The horses cause untold damage and hassle everywhere. One would have to wonder if the people who may own these horses can be made directly responsible in some way.

I would like to pick up on the points my colleagues have made on the Commission on the Economic Development of Rural Areas, CEDRA, report and the €1 million allocation. Is that allocation for the implementation of the report? There are 37 different recommendations in it - have they been prioritised or is an implementation committee in place? The Minister of State is directly responsible for this. There is a lot of good information in the report that could be very helpful for rural Ireland.

As Deputy Penrose mentioned previously, we have always talked about bureaucracy. When all the schemes start off, we talk about what would make them more consumer friendly and farmer friendly, yet the process seems to be getting more and more bureaucratic. Is it possible to make it more friendly?

Chairman

Deputy Ferris, do you want to wait for the Minister to answer or have you some questions you would like to ask?

Deputy Martin Ferris

No, I have not read it fully yet. It is only a provision for the hen harrier forms.

Chairman

There is a good bit of common ground on the green, low-carbon, agri-environment scheme, GLAS, on CEDRA in particular, and on knowledge transfer and farm safety. There is no provision this year for the locally-led environment schemes. Will they even be opened for application? Regarding knowledge transfer and the beef technology adoption programme, BTAP, I have been told by people who are being notified for the 2015 BTAP discussion groups that they are going to have to pay, even though the provision per participant to TEAGASC is, I understand, €350. Each individual participant is going to have a lesser amount net at the end of the year. Going back to what Deputy Deering has said, as much as possible of that money should go to the primary producer, to the participants. Otherwise it is not going to be attractive. The principle of knowledge transfer and discussion groups should be encouraged rather than discouraged.

The Minister has a range of questions and comments to deal with. I thank the members as we covered the ground in 22 minutes.

Deputy Simon Coveney

I have not given the responses yet, which might take a while. I will try and give as much detail as I can.

On Deputy Ó Cuív's question about taxation, we are not trying to give everybody a tax break, we are trying to use taxation to do strategic things, like move land out of conacre into long-term leasing, which is working very well. There has been a big increase in the number of people looking to make their land available for long-term lease, who would previously have been holding it under conacre.

If I can get figures for the Deputy, I will send them to him, but that is my understanding. The anecdotal evidence seems to suggest it.

Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív

There is a raft of these.

Deputy Simon Coveney

Yes.

Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív

Could I get figures on all of them?

Deputy Simon Coveney

There are 23 measures. Their total value to agriculture is approximately €300 million. We went into this matter in great detail in the budget. However, we will not know the numbers using each measure until the end of the year and Revenue knows-----

Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív

Could we get them for the measures that existed two years ago? They would give us some-----

Deputy Simon Coveney

The new measures are quite different than what used to be there.

Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív

If the Minister could get me the figures on the measures that existed two years ago, I would be grateful to him.

Deputy Simon Coveney

The Deputy might find it as easy to get the information by putting a parliamentary question to me.

Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív

I did and I got all sorts of push-offs, so I thought that, seeing as how the Minister was concerned about the matter, he might get me the information.

Deputy Simon Coveney

Let me look.

Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív

The Minister will do it, not me.

Deputy Simon Coveney

I will see what I can do.

Regarding the rural development programme, RDP, my intention is to have the money spent by the end of this round of CAP, which is 2020. As the Deputy is aware, there is a flexibility to go beyond 2020 to n+2 or n+3 if we must, just as with the last RDP when this and the previous Governments had to reduce spending. I hope that we will be able to spend the full amount of money under the new RDP before 2020, but it will be for future governments to decide. The intention is to increase expenditure each year for the next six years. We have increased expenditure by €42 million since last year. That is the start of the new development programme. We will increase expenditure again next year because we must reach an average spend in the next six years that goes far beyond what we are spending currently. This is a good news story for farmers. We will see increasing expenditure each year until 2020 and, potentially, beyond.

The question that everyone is asking is whether we will be able to get the job done on the green low-carbon agri-environment scheme, GLAS, in the time available. For all area-based payment schemes, we must have a deadline of the middle of May under the regulations. This is why we have been so intent on getting GLAS open as soon as we can. As some people who have been following this matter will know, we are opening GLAS on the basis of what is effectively a verbal agreement with the Commission. We are not even getting our letter of comfort from the Commission until the middle of next month. As we must get the application process up and running, we have opened GLAS on the basis of an understanding with the Commission. We are confident that there will be no changes and that the Commission will be satisfied. We will open some of the other schemes, those that are not area based, on the back of the letter of comfort. They can have closing dates beyond 15 May.

There is pressure, but everyone in this room has put me under pressure to get payments out in 2015 for GLAS. We have €20 million in a budget that I want to get out to farmers under GLAS. I want them to be involved for the last three months of the year. If we are to do that, we must get applications in by the middle of May so that we can assess them over the summer and make decisions as soon as we can afterwards.

There are approximately 400 planners outside of Teagasc. Teagasc is working with the farm relief service to take on extra help to get plans in place. The website has been open since yesterday for people to start uploading plans and maps. My official can interrupt me if I am getting anything wrong, but that is my understanding. Planners should not wait for time to pass. The Deputy is right, in that we need a turnover in terms of getting plans prepared and ready for formal submission on the system. We need that process to be up and running this week. That is why we have opened it. Farmers should be talking with their planners today about agreeing a timeframe for putting their plans in place. Many plans will be straightforward. They are not complex.

The commonage plans will also be straightforward but if issues arise with its implementation we are not going to disqualify anybody simply because it is not in place in time. As long as farmers apply and commit to acting in a way that is consistent with the commonage GLAS plan, they will be able to submit their applications earlier and the plan will be confirmed subsequently. If they are struggling to find or agree on a planner for their commonage, the Department will appoint a planner. That is one of the roles we can play on a helpful basis.

The numbers I provided earlier on REPS and AEOS were approximations prepared for me by the Department. The correct figure for AEOS is 19,275. AEOS 1 is 7,500, whereas AEOS 2 and 3 are just under 6,000 each.

We are looking to accommodate later closing dates for commonages, which I recognise is a genuine concern, but I hope they will not be necessary. In regard to land eligibility, I received an open letter on this issue. There is no agenda in my Department to force down the eligible land on commonage areas. We are required to carry out a certain number of inspections all over the country over commonage land and non-commonage land. It is up to farmers to decide how much land they include on their single farm payment application under Pillar 1. It is not up to us to tell them. We can indicate a guideline figure on what we think is eligible but the farmers ultimately have to exercise their judgment on what they consider to be farmable land. We want to help farmers get land that is not currently being farmed back into production. This is why GLAS is such a progressive scheme. It aims to increase stocking rates in most cases because there has been under grazing on certain commonage areas. There has also been over grazing, however, and we need to manage that. I hope GLAS will be able to get land into a better condition in many cases. The only way commonage land can be managed is by grazing it.

Chairman

I apologise for interrupting, but I wish to make a point of clarification. The Minister made the key point that the GLAS plan identifies what can be achieved. I am concerned that if a farmer submits an application on 15 May which contains the achievable figure instead of the current figure, he or she will be liable for penalties. If the farmer signs up to a GLAS plan for the land, will he or she be allowed to include the figure he or she thinks will be achievable on this basic payment? That could have a significant impact on the farmer.

Deputy Simon Coveney

It does not have a significant impact on the single farm payment for this year because farmers will receive the same decoupled payment. The single farm payment will be the same but it will be applied for based on a lesser hectarage. It may have an impact on redistribution or disadvantaged area scheme payments but the amount of the single farm payment will be the same. Farmers need to sit down with their planners to make an accurate assessment of their land in terms of what is farmable and what is not. That is how the Commission will audit the scheme. We are not trying to catch people out. There are not 300 inspections of commonage land.

All sorts of rumours that are not based in reality are circulating. There were some inspections and some farmers were written to on the back of inspections. The results of the inspections were expressed to the farmers and shareholders concerned. That is all that has happened. There is no agenda, apart from trying to help farmers get as much of their land back into as "farmable" a condition as possible so as to maximise the area for which we can justifiably apply for single farm payments. This is my Department's only agenda, apart from looking after commonage areas in a way that protects biodiversity, wildlife and the other sustainability issues we need to look after.

Deputy Pringle asked about CEDRA, as did a number of members. As people might remember, the Minister of State, Deputy Ann Phelan, was attached to my Department, and she has specific responsibility for CEDRA. We felt it was important that she have some budget to work with in terms of the responsibilities that are linked to my Department. She is also very much linked to the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government. CEDRA spans a number of Departments and was specifically not about agriculture but about rural economies outside the farm gate. That was the whole point of it.

A decision was made in early 2015 that funding should be provided for the social farming across borders project, subhead A13, CEDRA rural innovation and development fund, and approximately €40,000 went into it. I suspect we may spend more money on social farming projects, which is progressive thinking whereby one would use the infrastructure of a farm and a farm family to support in work people who may have other challenges that would make it very difficult for them get into the workforce otherwise. There are some very successful social farming initiatives involving, for example, people who have challenges regarding their mental health, confidence and disabilities. I am very supportive of this and hope we will be able to put more money and resources into it.

Further proposals are being developed to achieve maximum benefit from the fund, including proposals on activating female rural farm entrepreneurship and improving agritourism options. These options are being discussed between the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine and the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government and are intended to complement the work already being done under the Action Plan for Jobs 2015 on entrepreneurship and tourism. Although it is a relatively small amount of money in the bigger scheme, we will see rural projects that can help get people back to work. Another initiative I support is the concept of village markets by which we would encourage villages, towns and communities to create opportunities for buying and selling products. Such markets are also important social outlets in many small rural communities and the idea is working well. The initiatives we will be funding will be positive, and after the programme has been rolled out, the committee members will be able to judge it.

While the seafood development programme will focus on jobs, the idea that we would not upgrade and modernise our food processing facilities because we want an increased workforce would be flawed thinking. Our seafood industry competes with many other countries and we need modern processing facilities. This involves mechanisation and modern equipment from a food safety and standards point of view, in terms of the quality of fish and so on. We have invested a lot of money in upgrading and expanding fish processing facilities, particularly in Donegal, and it has increased the workforce in many factories.

I reiterate to Deputy Pringle that this has happened. Most of it is about adding value to product. The Deputy is talking about factories that would have had a lot of people effectively gutting fish, much of which has been mechanised since then. That is not where most of the money has gone in recent years. Most of the money the Government has spent on the seafood processing sector has been about adding value to product, whether that is packaging, smoking or whatever. The Government deliberately has had a higher grant aid provision linked to higher value-added processing. If he wishes, I can send through the detail to Deputy Pringle as to where the Department has spent money.

The Department will continue to try to ensure that Ireland has a seafood industry that is competitive and modern, which employs as many people as possible and which gets as much fish as possible through those systems, be they from Irish trawlers or from foreign trawlers. The alternative is we simply will see more and more fish getting pumped into containers and taken to other parts of Europe for processing because we are not efficient here. The Deputy knows the fishing industry well enough to know this happens in huge volumes. The Department wishes to have more processing take place here, as well as to have more added value and jobs here, just like it has done in the agrifood sector. We do not want Ireland simply to be exporting commodities of whole fish.

In respect of subhead C7.6, on environmental compliance, my understanding is it actually pertains to research. In 2014, the subheads were used for the first time to fund preparatory work for the phased implementation of the ban on discarding fish, which formed part of the Common Fisheries Policy reform package agreed in 2013. The first part of this ban commenced on 1 January 2015 with the second and more complex phase due on 1 January 2016. The projected expenditure was based on estimates of projected data collection, research, workshops, gear trials and a range of projects to inform the development of specific proposals for actions at national, regional and EU level. In other words, this has gone from being capital expenditure to current expenditure in preparation for what will be a major challenge for the industry, for the Department and for the agencies that are working with the seafood industry to introduce a discards ban on mixed fisheries, which will be phased in over the coming years.

Ultimately, this will be a good thing for the fishing industry because it will stop the dumping of approximately 40% of the fish that are caught, but it will involve a transition and the Department must make sure that the fishermen can manage the transition properly from a financial and a management perspective. It would be great to have a detailed discussion on that challenge on another occasion because I would be very interested to get feedback from people like Deputies Pringle, Ferris and others who are interested in the seafood sector. This is something that must be done and either we find a way to do it or the Commission will enforce a way of doing it. I know which of those two options I desire.

Deputy Penrose asked about the beef genomics programme. At present, the plan is that the Department estimates it will be paying out on approximately 650,000 animals. Mr. Fintan O’Brien will correct me if I am wrong but I think that is the approximate figure. The Department wants the first ten animals in a herd to get €100 - I am referring to a calved cow in this regard - and essentially, this means approximately 290,000 of the aforementioned 650,000 animals will receive €100 per head. That is approximately half the national herd, if one likes. As the average herd size for a suckler herd is 17 animals, most farmers will have more than half of their herd getting €100 per animal. However, as the Deputy is aware, there are some major operators in the midlands who have many more animals in their herds than the national average. While they know they will get €100 for the first ten animals, they have 80 or 120 animals and they will want to know what is the story with the rest of them.

Deputy Willie Penrose

Yes.

Deputy Simon Coveney

We must ascertain how this will pan out.

We have about €53 million to spend and must make decisions. I suspect one of the first things we would do is to start with the guys with more than 60 animals. They would receive €80 per animal for as many as we could pay them. That is not unreasonable. We will prioritise the small farmer, as we do in the case of the €10 payment.

Deputy Willie Penrose

I am all in favour of that approach.

Deputy Simon Coveney

In the west the average herd size is 15 animals. We want to make sure we keep the people concerned in business. The big operators will receive a big dividend, but if we must cut our cloth to measure, they will be making a contribution. I have not made a definitive decision, but I am providing the committee with my thinking on the matter. There were over 6,000 applicants and we will have them approved as soon as possible. As we only closed for the receipt of applications in mid-January, we are moving quickly. I can provide the Deputy with the exact figures. The closing date was 9 January, by which time 6,299 applications had been received, of which over 4,000 have been processed and 1,000 are being discussed with the farmers concerned. Some 1,900 have been referred to local offices for approval; 10% will be subject to a prepayment inspection, while 315 of the 1,900 have been approved. We are rolling out the scheme as fast as we can, but we must go through a process. We cannot spend European money without ensuring the correct percentage of pre-inspections. The money must, however, be spent this year. It is money under the last rural development programme that we must spend. That is why the scheme is being brought forward at this pace.

On the question of whether we should include a safety module, there is a compulsory health and safety module in some of the knowledge transfer programmes covering the beef, dairy, equine, sheep, poultry and tillage aspects. There will be a compulsory health and safety module as part of the discussion groups. Whether it is taken to the next stage where we say people must conduct a farm safety audit before they can qualify is something about which we must talk. If the committee can make some recommendations on farm safety, I will listen very closely. No one has all of the answers and it is something the committee could do, given its level of experience. I have spoken to FBD, Teagasc and the Health and Safety Authority. We have also spoken to other insurance companies and other stakeholders, as well as farming organisations about what we could do, within reason, to encourage a change in attitudes to safety. We are doing this in the fishing industry and as a result, the past few years have not been as tragic. Last year was horrific in terms of the number of farm accidents, in which 30 people lost their lives, the highest number since records began. As we have already a tragedy this year, committee members will find me proactive on the issue of farm safety and willing to spend a lot of money and make direct policy changes, if we think this will work. I would like to receive some feedback from the committee. It would be a good use of its time to hold hearings because there are many good people involved in trying to find a way forward on the issue of farm safety.

On the Chinese market, the same publication which suggested the average GLAS payment might be €3,000 was also stating we would sell €75 million worth of beef to China. I am not sure if either figure is accurate, but €75 million might be an accurate estimate. I am not sure about the figure of €3,000 because the majority of farmers participating in GLAS will comfortably receive more than that amount. They will have plenty of options to do so, but it is up to farmers to decide how they put their plans together. We are exporting more than €40 million worth of cattle skins to China.

The industry is very excited about the potential of that market. Last year China imported 240,000 tonnes of beef; by 2018, we are estimating conservatively that it will be importing 1.75 million tonnes. That is the pace of growth we are seeing in terms of the demand for non-Chinese beef. The consumption patterns of the Chinese population also give grounds for optimism. While consumption per capita was one third of a kilogram in the 1980s, it is now more than 5 kg and continuing to increase. It is an enormous market that is only going to get larger and larger. Ireland is the only European country that can access the market. For anybody who has been to China - I have participated in a couple of trade missions - it is clear that the people associate the European Union with quality. They want German cars, French clothes and Italian shoes. My objective is to ensure they will want Irish meat. Many Chinese consumers have significant disposable incomes and will pay more for high quality products. In the infant formula market, for example, people are willing to pay $66 per tin for a product made in west Limerick, even though a locally produced tin further down the shelf is selling for $10. There is a very exciting opportunity for Irish beef producers in the Chinese market and we are determined to pursue it. We will be taking a trade mission there in the second half of the year to ensure we do everything we can politically to open doors for the beef industry. The same applies to exports to the United States which is also a very exciting market, about which members have heard me speak on previous occasions.

Deputy Tom Barry asked about Leader funding. While that funding is drawn down by agreement under the rural development plan in my Department, the detail thereof is really the responsibility of the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government which is hoping to start the process of setting up new Leader and local action groups in the coming weeks. The process is under way and I expect Leader funding to be available in the second half of the year. I cannot be sure of this, but that is my expectation.

Some €28 million is being allocated for research and training. One of our priorities throughout the lean period was to ensure funding for research and development would not be cut dramatically because it would have had a very detrimental impact in the medium term. Now that resources are increasing and we are spending more year-on-year, many of the research programmes we supported will be coming to maturity and we will get the benefit of them in the food sector broadly, from forestry to food nutrition to dairy product processing. In fact, we are already seeing some of the benefits at the Moorepark research centre and elsewhere.

As part of the national research prioritisation exercise, as part of which almost €500 million is being provided for research, at least five of the 14 priority areas will be in the agrifood and marine sectors. That is a total change from where we were a few years ago, when the marine and agriculture sectors did not even get a look in.

Deputy Tom Barry

Will the Minister clarify the nature of that fund?

Deputy Simon Coveney

Most of the funding will actually come through Science Foundation Ireland. The national research prioritisation exercise, NRPE, was published in 2012 and recommended that the majority of the approximately €500 million annual public spend on scientific research should be targeted at 14 priority investment areas, at least five of which are relevant to the agrifood and marine sectors. This reflects the priority the Government is giving to these sectors.

Nobody needs to tell me about tillage prices. We have had two very good harvests in terms of quality, moisture and yield, but the prices have been lousy.

That is the reality and the reason is that we have had very good harvests all over the world and there is a lot of grain available.

That is also the reason for the over-supply in recent months in the international dairy markets. We have had cheap grain for two years in a row and most of the world's milk is produced on the back of grain. That led to an increase in dairy production which drove down dairy prices. We are starting to come out the other side of that because there is drought happening now in certain parts of the world. That means that we will not have the kind of price collapse in the dairy market that some were predicting - or at least we think not; we cannot be sure. We are trying to do things for the tillage sector, particularly under TAMS. I spoke to the committee before about trying to encourage more arable farmers to use organic fertilisers. Building storage facilities on tillage farms is somewhat counter-intuitive for farmers who do not have any livestock but it gives them the option of being able to buy slurry when the price is right. They can use it when they need to in a much more targeted way if they have storage capacity.

On the issue of Teagasc staff, we have actually increased the numbers. We have increased the amount of teaching staff Teagasc is allowed to employ because the agricultural colleges are all full. I was in Mountbellew Agricultural College last week, which has 340 students enrolled at the moment and is by far the most it has ever had. It was set up in 1904 and is the oldest agricultural college in the country. That situation is reflected across the other colleges too. It is not too long ago that people were talking about closing down Mountbellew and other colleges like Gurteen but I am glad to say that those colleges are thriving now.

The Department has sanctioned over 50 mission-critical appointments in Teagasc since 2009. We do seek - and receive - permission from the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform to make appointments. That Department needs some convincing but I believe we will see a loosening of the moratorium on recruitment as-----

Deputy Tom Barry

There is a need to create new positions ---

Deputy Simon Coveney

Yes, but that is not going to happen in a dramatic way, it will happen in a controlled way.

We spend nearly €10 million per year supporting the World Food Programme, WFP. To be clear, some people seem to think that I if I did not spend that money thus, I would be able to spend the €10 million on farmers but that is not the case. This is part of the Government's contribution towards development aid. If we did not spend that €10 million, then the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade would have to spend €10 million more and we would spend €10 million less. It is in a separate category in terms of our budget so it is not a question of me taking money from farmers, from agriculture or from fishermen and giving it to the WFP. We have a very close connection with the WFP because of our understanding of food development issues. That is why my Department has traditionally spent money in this way.

Regarding Deputy Heydon's comments on the beef industry, clearly we will have a better year this year than we had last year in the sector. A lot of people have said that the only reason the beef price is up is that the kill is down but that is not true. We have been killing over 30,000 animals for the last number of weeks. If anything, the kill so far this year is slightly up on last year. That said, the anticipated number of slaughtered animals this year will be 110,000 to 120,000 less than last year. That is the indication that we have at present, in terms of calves coming through and so forth.

The combination of killing fewer animals, opening new markets and less availability of beef generally across the EU should mean that we should have strong pricing through this year, but one never knows with beef. Things can change quite quickly. I would be hopeful that we will have a very strong year this year. Certainly farmers are anticipating that we will have a very strong year. They are spending a lot of money on store animals at the moment. A lot of farmers have said to me that they simply cannot get animals in marts at the moment in terms of the prices being commanded. That worries me a little because it means that if the price weakens then people who have bought animals for a lot of money are exposed. That said, farmers need to make their own business decisions.

From my perspective, we will continue to work within the beef forum and with farming organisations and the industry to maintain as healthy a beef market as we can. The big thing we will do between now and the summer is to produce a recommended structure for beef producer organisations which will be able legally to negotiate price with factories under the new Common Agricultural Policy. That will change fundamentally the relationship between farmers and factories for the better. One will have farmer-owned producer organisations who might be negotiating with factories on behalf of 1,000 beef farmers. They will have real volume to negotiate with around price, spec and market conditions. It will be a two-way communications as they will also be able to communicate with their farmers in terms of what kind of animal and what spec, age and weight will get them the maximum price. Likewise, they will be able to negotiate aggressively with factories in a way that moves us away from farmers being simply price takers. This will allow farmers to negotiate collectively on a legal basis. That is not the case at the moment for farming organisations. It will make a difference.

We will be supporting live exports also. Deputy Michael McNamara has been very vocal on this issue. Live exports were up approximately 18% last year across the range from breeding heifers, to calves, weanlings and finished animals. We will continue to facilitate live exports to ensure that the prices being paid in Ireland are competitive and provide farmers with decent value in terms of the margin that is there.

On the horse and greyhound fund, the equine industry is unusual in Ireland. It is an international industry. If we allow funding to fall below a certain level for a sustained period of time, Ireland will lose its place as one of the foremost horse racing countries in the world. That is from a breeding point of view as well as from an events and racing point of view. If we do not have prize money that attracts the top horses to race here, we will find ourselves in the second tier of countries in racing and that would be a disaster on a series of fronts, including employment, income, exports of thoroughbreds and so on. I am glad therefore that on the back of getting an extra €25 million into the Exchequer from taxing online bets, we are going to allocate €16 million to the horse and greyhound fund. That will bring the industry very close to where it was in the so-called boom times when there was a very strong fund. It is a very positive development. We are also introducing new horse racing legislation to ensure the money is spent in a way that is transparent, effective and appropriate.

Regarding horse welfare, an extra €1 million in capital investment is being made. We have increased funding for the control of horses from €1.6 million to €2.6 million but the extra €1 million is for a specific purpose. I have written to local authorities to ask them to make proposals for capital investment projects to address welfare for urban horse populations. That means managed stables, grazing facilities and yards to enable us to run education programmes for young people who are very attached to horses in a managed and controlled environment. We cannot continue to accept horses in back gardens, public areas, NAMA-owned land or parks in city centres. From a welfare point of view, it is totally unacceptable. It is also totally unacceptable from a legal point of view as people must have registered premises now for equines and animals must be microchipped and have passports.

We need to know and understand where our horses are and who owns them. Currently, there are too many horses outside the system and we will change that. There will be a stick and there will be carrot. The carrot is that we will pay for projects in different parts of the country. We are hoping to facilitate four this year, which will probably be attached to four cities. The best proposals will get the money.

Hopefully, we will facilitate another four next year. For example, if Traveller families have horses that are not in an equine registered premises there may be an option for us to work with local authorities to ensure that their horses are kept in a more controlled environment where we can put supports and education programmes in place and so on. This will involve not only Traveller families but others who have horses in an urban environment. I believe that will be a good initiative and I am anxious to progress it.

I believe I have answered most of Deputy Deering's questions which covered the green, low-carbon, agri-environmental scheme, GLAS, farm safety, targeted, agricultural modernisaiton schemes, TAMS, the control of horses and the Commission on Economic Development of Rural Areas, CEDRA, report. We are trying to reduce the level of bureaucracy. For example, one can only apply for GLAS online and one has to do so by going through a planner. That has made a significant difference in terms of reducing the bureaucracy for farmers. The people who do the form filling and the loading up of maps are the planners and one pays the planner to do that.

In terms of hen harrier designated lands, I have put considerable thought into this issue to try to be helpful for those affected by it. Up until now fewer than 400 farmers affected by hen harrier land designations have got any form of payment or compensation. Those farmers and landowners would have got a payment of somewhere between €5,000 to €12,000 and in the very high cases, they might have got up to €14,000 but that would involve a very small number. We anticipate that all 4,000 farmers who have been affected by hen harrier land designations will be able to come into GLAS and they will qualify for GLAS plus. Therefore many of them will get a payment of €7,000 per hectare. Instead of spending a relatively small amount of money on a relatively small number of people, we could be spending somewhere between €25 million and €28 million on the consequences of hen harrier designation in terms of a payment that recognises the restrictions on farmers and therefore the reduced capacity for income from their farmland.

I cannot do everything to provide for those affected by hen harrier designations. Another Department designated those lands and put the scheme in place on the back of those designations. The Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine has more money than the National Parks and Wildlife Service and, effectively, we are creating a separate category in GLAS for special areas of conservation and designated areas and giving a recognition payment for the limited activity that can happen on much of that designated land. That means that 3,500 or more farmers whose lands have been designated, for which they did not receive any payment previously, will now be able to get up to €7,000 without having to do anything apart from putting in place a basic GLAS plan which recognises the restriction applying to their land on the back of the designation It is a big step forward. If there are other things that can or should be done, they would need to be examined, but in the context of GLAS, that is as far as we could go. We could not get agreement on a higher payment than €7,000. We are doing what we can to recognise the hen harrier designation issue, which is significantly more than was done in the past, and this will represent a significant chunk of the overall GLAS provision. If we were to do any more, other farmers who want to access GLAS would have a big difficulty with it.

On the Chairman's questions regarding the locally-led environmental schemes, I hope we will be able to get that competitive process up and running this year. I know there is a significant interest in that in Wicklow. There is also a significant interest in it in other areas. A number of island communities have also expressed an interest in it. That will involve a competitive process and the best submissions will get the money. This is like the Burren scheme, with which Deputy McNamara will be familiar.

The Chairman also asked about the discussion groups and how much farmers will be asked to pay. The important aspect of the discussion groups must be the quality of the learning in them as opposed to just paying somebody to turn up. If we are to get good people in to give farmers the information they need to farm better and more profitably and sustainably, that costs money and that is the basis for the payment. We will try to keep that cost as low we can and I will talk to Teagasc about it.

There have been all kinds of figures thrown out, some are not accurate and some are reasonably accurate. I will push Teagasc as hard as I can to make sure it pushes and organises the discussion groups at as competitive a price as possible, but ultimately farmers will have to pay for that. Otherwise I will have to reduce the amount of money that goes to farmers and give it to Teagasc to fund the schemes. One cannot count the same money twice.

Chairman

I think that Teagasc is getting up to €800 per participant.

Deputy Pat Deering

That is a 100% increase.

Deputy Simon Coveney

I am not sure that is confirmed.

Chairman

Perhaps we could get clarity on that.

Deputy Pat Deering

Is the payment made to Teagasc and then Teagasc pays it to the farmer or does it go directly to the farmer?

Deputy Simon Coveney

Under EU and WTO rules it has to go via the facilitator.

Deputy Pat Deering

Is that a change?

Chairman

It was the other way. It came directly as a payment.

Deputy Simon Coveney

It was the other way but I do not see the reason why farmers would be unhappy with this. If they have to pay, and we are paying directly, maybe they like the idea of getting the money first before they hand it over.

Chairman

If a farmer is participating in one, €200 extra is payable to the standard client fee. If a farmer is participating in two it goes from €345 up to €530. Teagasc gives options to its clients on the client payment costs. Then the payment is made. There needs to be some streamlining.

Deputy Michael McNamara

The Minister mentioned GLAS plus for people in hen harrier areas. Will people in designated areas be subject to the same maximum number of hectares on which they can claim as those who are not in designated areas? The Minister also said he had investigated putting it over €7,000 but had not received permission to do so. Could he clarify from whom, or from which institution?

I congratulate the Minister on his recent successes and all the work he and his Department are doing to open up further markets to Irish beef. It was unfortunate that in the week the Chinese market was announced, farmers were receiving lowered quotes from beef factories. I would not be entirely optimistic, but I hope the Minister is right when he says it will be a better year. I also welcome the extra €1 million the Minister has put into beef marketing and the €144 million funding for Teagasc and Bord Bia.

The quality assurance scheme is a central plank in our beef marketing. This excellent initiative is funded largely at a cost to the Exchequer. Farmers make sacrifices to meet the criteria required, and it is good that they do so, but beef processors can sell their product into external markets more easily because of this. In return for that, the beef processors offer farmers €4 a head for cattle out of spec. Cattle in spec have their own bonus scheme because it suits those farmers involved to flush out cattle at times of the year they otherwise might not come out. The sum of €4 a head for quality assured cattle is almost an insult by the beef sector standards. What does the Minister intend to do about this?

Chairman

Finally Minister.

Deputy Simon Coveney

The payments relating to hen harrier designated lands is, I believe, €370 per hectare. It is the figure we had agreed on, up to €7,000. We had to negotiate all these payments and these ceilings with the Commission in order to get agreement from it as to how the scheme would operate. The Commission is the body mentioned when talking about agreement and acceptance on these matters, because ultimately it is paying 54% of the cost.

Beef prices are currently 15% higher than they were last September. We cannot expect beef prices to increase every week, they will go up and down slightly but as long as the graph is moving upwards then we are in quite good shape. What farmers are paying for store cattle at the moment would suggest that they are encouraged by the pricing trends we have seen. We will have to see if prices increase or stay the same, but there are only so many things I can do as Minister. I cannot instruct factories to pay more. There is a quality assurance bonus of 12 cent per kg and there is an out-of-spec bonus, negotiated and agreed in principle between farming organisations and factories in the Beef Forum last November. Farming organisations are not happy with the money offered but the agreement also said it would operate on a cost neutral manner. This has not happened as there has been an extra cost to it. I cannot get into the space of negotiating price. Anytime I do mention price I seem to get a letter from the Competition Authority. The whole reason for needing beef producer organisations is to have bodies to negotiate price on a weekly basis. That will be a very good development.

Quality assurance makes sense for farmers also. If factories sell meat for a higher price, because it is associated with safety and quality, then farmers get paid more.

Deputy Michael McNamara

Only if it is passed on to the farmers.

Deputy Simon Coveney

I am aware of that but Irish prices are at about 105% of the European average at the moment. That would suggest we are in a premium category. We export to the UK and sterling is strong at the moment, which is a good thing. We are now the only European country that can sell to the United States and to China. We may also be the only European country that can sell to Japan. As a Government we are doing everything we can to create the conditions for buoyant beef prices but I cannot micro-manage pricing at factory level. In fairness, I do not think I am being asked to do that but when there are structural issues in the market the Beef Forum is there to address them.

Chairman

I thank the Minister and his officials for their engagement with us. It has been comprehensive. The Minister's response to lengthy questions was 45 minutes, with comprehensive answers to each and every question asked.