The Chairman of the Arts Council is here to brief the committee on the Arts Bill as agreed at last week's meeting. There were many comments last week, one way or the other. It is important that the Chairman of the Arts Council gets a right of reply, but he also has a central role in the Bill. As the Arts Council has agreed to a more wide-ranging debate with the committee at another time, today we will try to focus specifically on the Arts Bill. This will conclude our taking of evidence on the Bill and we will proceed to Committee Stage next Wednesday, 11 December 2002 at 2.30 p.m.
Arts Bill, 2002: Presentation.
I am the current chairman of the Arts Council. I will go through a paper which we forwarded to the committee. It will probably take about ten minutes, after which I will hand over to the director, Ms Patricia Quinn, and the others.
I thank the committee for the opportunity to give our views on the Arts Bill, and to address any questions the committee might have. The Arts Council staff with me are: Ms Patricia Quinn, the director; Mr. Dermot McLaughlin, who is the art form director and a fine Donegal fiddler, and Ms Mary Cloake, who is development director of the Arts Council.
We have little time and much to say, and therefore I prepared some notes we will leave with the committee. Earlier this week we also sent over some materials which set out our formal position in earlier submissions to the Minister. I will say a few introductory remarks about my Council and myself, and then ask the director to open a discussion on the four areas that concern us in relation to the Arts Bill.
First, on my own background, I come from New Ross, County Wexford, and have had a passionate interest in the arts since childhood as well as in sports of all types. For 35 years I have collected visual and ethnic art extensively at home and aboard, and I have been active on national and international committees and boards.
When I took on the chairmanship of the Arts Council in February 2000, I joined a diverse range of people. Today's Arts Council includes, among others, a county librarian, a professor of social sciences, a number of artists - a writer, a composer and a sculptor - a public servant who is active in the amateur drama movement, a journalist, a senior executive from RTE and a leading figure from Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann. Like the councils that have gone before, on which it has been my privilege to serve twice, they are hard-working unpaid folk who put in long hours on a voluntary basis to live up to what is asked of them under the Arts Acts - to promote and assist the arts in Ireland. Since 1951, we and our predecessors have done this very well, and can take credit for much of the talent that has been nurtured and experienced by a widening Irish public in that half century. Obviously, there is more to do, and we have signposted this in our latest strategy plan, the Arts Plan 2002-2006.
There are four questions arising from the proposed new legislation with which we would like to deal today and they are as follows. What is the remit of the Arts Council? What is the role of the Minister? What is the best size for the Council? How should the Council be structured?
To deal with the remit of the Council first, I could not quarrel with the definition of culture offered here last week by Professor Ó hÓgáin. I also see culture as a very wide and all embracing concept. In my judgment, it is a collective noun for the various aspects of how we live. However, that is a much wider remit than the Arts Council's. Cultural policy rightly extends to folklore, language, national monuments and archaeology, museums, all aspects of design, craftsmanship and many other things that are special to our way of life.
On the role of the Minister, it is a pity the Department is not designated as the Department of culture, since it has this wide cultural remit and the duty to co-ordinate and formulate overall cultural policy, including the cultural dimension of other Departments' work - most importantly, education.
For me, art might be called a subset of culture. It is something mysterious and magical, created by an artist, that has the power to move and enrich us emotionally. It is a fundamental need for mankind, not an elitist pastime. It is, by its very nature, innovative and original, fresh from the talent, experience and personality of the individual artist, in most instances, and can take many years to be universally understood.
Because we are the Arts Council, and not the 'art' Council, our brief covers all aspects of the making and enjoyment of art - architecture, dance, literature, film, music, opera, theatre, traditional arts and visual arts. Our remit falls within the wider context of cultural policy. That is why it says on the cover of our plan that "We work in the context of a public policy that aims to enable the people of Ireland to express as participantsor engage as audiences with their own andothers' cultures". I hope this will reassure the committee that our philosophy is inclusive, not exclusive.
Equally, I hope it will be clear that we see an essential role for the Minister in setting public policy priorities for culture generally, and in bringing some high-level coordination to the context for our work.
Arts Council staff are with me to cover these questions in more detail, and to answer questions, but first I want to touch on the second two questions I posed earlier. In my opinion, the new Arts Bill contains much that is excellent. Whether the Arts Council should continue to have 17 council members, or a lesser number as suggested in the Bill, is for the Government to decide. Both proposals could work. The smaller size is analogous to the boards of many other statutory agencies. It would bring us back to the kind of Arts Council we were at the outset, until the 1973 Act introduced the idea of bringing regional and artistic diversity to the council.
During the consultation initiated by the Department in 2001 there was talk of the possibility of having two Arts Councils, one for the traditional arts and one for the so-called "high" arts. I was against this idea and I still am. All the art forms can be catered for under the existing structure on this small island. Equally, I believe that creating three new statutory committees, with a special status for the one on traditional arts would undermine the integrity and decision-making process of the council itself. We have seen the depth of dissent and division this proposal has brought to the traditional music community and to the arts community in general. I am aware the committee earnestly wishes to see the best legislation going forward with the greatest support from a cohesive traditional music community.
A much better solution would be for the Minister to direct the Arts Council to set up a formal task-oriented traditional arts committee composed of carefully appointed Arts Council members, similar to the three existing committees on grants, business and awards, which operate efficiently. Such a committee could have as its primary tasks to consult widely with the traditional music community and the general arts community; to define which elements of traditional arts fit with the purpose of the Arts Council; to propose effective ways for the council to improve its role in supporting, with others, our traditional music; and to oversee the work of the council in meeting its responsibilities in this area. The Arts Bill had two sound mechanisms to achieve this result either by ministerial direction under section 10 or as an action of the council under section 22.
The committees on local authorities and innovation in the Bill are unnecessary, especially as it is unclear how they are expected to function or relate to the work of the council. We are proud of our record in enhancing local provision for the arts. As for innovation, we have been dealing with it on a daily basis since 1951 because of the very nature of artists and art.
The Minister appoints members to the council and he has the opportunity thereby to appoint the wisest artists and the most experienced arts enthusiasts. In doing so, he can direct them to pay special attention to any particular area the Government wishes to have re-examined.
It is critical that all talented creative artists in the country continue to be encouraged and supported, and that the fruits of their labours are increasingly accessible for all citizens to enjoy. The Arts Council should be endorsed as the appropriate State agency to adjudge and reward excellence in the arts, without fear or favour, with a reasonable degree of autonomy in its answerability to the Minister with responsibility for the arts on behalf of the Government of the day.
Ms Patricia Quinn
I wish to make a general comment which touches on the fundamental concerns that were raised last week before the committee. I thank the members of the committee for making space for us as this is a busy day for them. I refer to the formation of policies on the arts by the Arts Council and how they are turned into practical supports. We welcome a future opportunity to give a more detailed description of our work.
As public representatives, committee members will be aware of the level of demand for Arts Council support throughout the country but as our Exchequer funding has increased, demand has grown. This reflects the thrust of public policy throughout the 1990s, as successive Ministers for the arts extended the reach of the arts into local communities through capital funding for theatres, galleries and arts centres. No matter how much we have to spend, demand always exceeds the supply of funding.
Our funding is not bound by fixed entitlements, as is the case with other statutory agencies. Neither of the Arts Acts states any individual or group of artists may claim part of our funds as of right. It is, therefore, up to the Arts Council to set its policies in light of the general provisions of those Acts. This responsibility to set our own priorities for supporting the arts, independent of political control, is enshrined both in existing legislation and in the new Bill. It is usually referred to as the arm's length principle.
Every so often, we produce a plan for the arts and I am aware the committee has seen the current plan. In the plan we revisit comprehensively both the definition of our remit and our core objectives. Our remit is printed on the cover of the plan, to which the Chairman has referred. We produce the plan with the benefit of extensive consultations with artists, arts organisations and the public and with the benefit of an external evaluation of its predecessor. All these processes are transparent and open and we publish the evaluations of our plans. We produced an evaluation of the second arts plan while the Government commissioned an evaluation of the first plan and these are on the public record. Once the arts plan has been prepared with details of what it will cost and how it will be implemented, we submit it to Government. Happily, our three arts plans to date have been endorsed by Government. There is a commitment in the programme for Government to implement the current plan.
We have a number of funding programmes for arts and arts organisations and every year we publish a call for funding applications in the national media and on our website. These programmes run across the different art forms and do not refer to any art form in particular because, in some cases, they relate to arts festivals or centres, which are cross-disciplinary, and the feedback from arts practitioners is that descriptions such as visual arts or theatre are sometimes restricting. Everyone is free to apply to us for funding and many do.
The Arts Council's freedom to set its own artistic priorities within the framework of the published plan carries its own burden of responsibility. That is why the council attaches the highest importance to giving support in a way that is systematic, consistent across the art forms, clear in its objectives and the criteria it works under and transparent in the way decisions are taken. We must be fair and be seen to be fair.
We have a formal assessment procedure, through which every application must go, which sympathetically but rigorously weighs up an application's merits in competition with many others. No decision to give support is made by an individual and every application goes through several levels of assessment. This process is published so that people can be made aware of what happens to their applications when we receive them. If we turn people down, as we do all the time, we try to explain why and, if they disagree with our judgment, there is a formal appeals process. That process, together with the entire set of procedures, is open to inspection under the Freedom of Information Act, 1997. However, members should be assured that our procedures are fair, consistent and open.
The material we brought with us includes a publication referred to in a presentation last week. A minute of an Arts Council meeting was quoted which suggested we were in some way opposed to or not interested in the traditional arts. That meeting was held more than 30 years ago and the document further states that since then our procedures and politics have changed completely and provision for artists working in traditional forms is equal to the provision for other art forms.
The other publication we will circulate will be referred to by Mary Cloake. It illustrates our work since the 1973 Act, to which the Chairman referred, in building local support for the arts and relationships with local authorities to improve promotion of the arts locally.
Perhaps we will take questions first and that information can be supplied when replying to them. The 1% figure is used a great deal to justify the argument that traditional arts have not been in their rightful place. It is a common reference in both sides of the debate. The solution offered by the delegation is that the Minister should direct the Arts Council to set up a formal task-oriented traditional arts committee composed of carefully appointed council members. How are members carefully appointed? If the committee is not put on a statutory footing, how can special needs issues such as traditional arts, music in education and arts in health, be addressed? No funding is ring-fenced for specific art forms. Should a minimum amount be ring-fenced for traditional arts?
Ms Quinn
Maybe I could answer that question in two parts. The first is to do with the extent to which the Arts Council is committed to and is seen to be committed to any aspect of the arts, but including traditional arts. The only test for that is if it is in our plan, because that governs everything we do. It goes through the process I mentioned earlier. We prepare it in a very public way, it is discussed and is presented to and adopted by Government.
There is a section concerning the traditional arts in the plan on pages 40 and 41. I will not read it to the committee because I know members have the plan already. That section is there as are pages discussing our strategy for theatre, visual arts, literature, music, dance and so forth. I hope that answers the question as to whether there is a need to create a special provision to ensure that traditional arts are not neglected. If this process does not give that reassurance, I do not know what more we can do to demonstrate that traditional arts get the same level of attention from the Arts Council as all other art forms.
I suppose a bigger question the committee is asking relates to this idea of ring-fencing or protecting traditional arts to ensure they are not neglected. I would suggest that there is perhaps an oversight issue in relation to the role of the Minister because the Arts Council is not the only body which provides for the needs of the traditional arts. There is not just another Department. A great deal of support is given to traditional arts through Raidió na Gaeltachta, TG4 and so forth. Local authorities in their way give a great deal of active support to traditional arts and that is something we encourage.
I made the point in a letter to the newspapers yesterday that if our expenditure is analysed, it will be found that 32% of what we spend goes on venues for the arts, 6% on festivals and 5% on local authorities. All those percentages can be analysed to show that they cover all the arts. The way we support the different venues respects the programmes that local government, theatres, other venues and arts centres themselves want to promote. In many cases, that includes the traditional arts. The 1% is really a very mendacious figure because it does not really present the true picture.
This is a worthwhile opportunity for us to ask questions of the Arts Council. The delegation from the council was present last week when representatives of Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann were critical of the council's funding of traditional arts. The delegation has addressed that to some extent. The reason Comhaltas supports the idea of a standing committee for the traditional arts is that it has felt ignored, left out, not listened to and made to feel in some way different. Obviously we realise it is not and that traditional arts are the driving force of the artistic movement.
On the direct criticism of the Arts Council by Comhaltas, has the council ever met the organisation and tried to address its problems or has Comhaltas approached the council directly? How many applications were received from the musical end of the traditional arts, be they from Comhaltas, Comhaltas groups or traditional arts groups outside the organisation? Not all people who represent traditional arts are members of Comhaltas. How much money would have been involved in those applications?
I noticed that the council's letter of 1 July 2002 to the Minister, Deputy O'Donoghue, thanked the Government for including its arts plan in the programme for Government. Is the delegation concerned that, while €53 million was sought for 2003, only €44 million was received. An increase of €4 million was sought but the council's budget was reduced by €4 million. Surely that will upset the arts plan.
The arm's length principle has always been applied to the Arts Council. It is an autonomous body and free agent while also being held accountable. Does the delegation believe that will be affected by the Arts Bill? Section 5 states:
The Minister may, in relation to the performance by the Council of its functions . . . give a direction in writing to the Council requiring it to comply with such policies of the Minister or the Government as are specified in the direction.
That is giving the Minister authority to tell the council what to do whereas, previously, it was a free agent which presented its plans and was more or less an autonomous body. Whether that was good or bad is another matter, but it at least gave the impression that the Arts Council was a free agent making its own decisions, challenging the system, questioning authority and taking on different Governments without fear or favour. Does the delegation believe the council's freedom will be restricted by this direction?
Regional representation on the Arts Council was never great but that is not the fault of the executive because the Minister appoints the members of the council, not the executive. If the numbers on the board are to be reduced to eight, surely it will be difficult to have regional representation or even sectoral representation. I will propose that the membership should be 12 with a regional balance and some form of sectoral balance, if possible.
I welcome the members of the Arts Council. On the submission by the chairman of the council, is this a compromise proposal to the Arts Bill or was it a submission made to the PricewaterhouseCoopers report before the heads of the Arts Bill as they relate to the traditional arts were determined by Government?
The chairman put forward a proposal as to how to deal with the section of the Bill relating to committees. Is that a response to the argument and debate which has been generated or a compromise to try to resolve the many differences of opinion about the committees that we have heard from different sectors of the traditional arts?
Processing of applications for funding caused many angry reactions on the part of people to whom we spoke on the previous occasion. What percentage of rejected applications would have involved the traditional arts? What percentage is that of overall rejected applications?
Obviously, there is a wide spectrum of interest in the arts. Would it be fair to assume that, when a committee meets, the Arts Council adopts a stance on what art form would be most dominant in that committee or is the individuality of each form maintained to the end of the committee meeting with no real thrust towards or tunnel vision adopted concerning a certain art form? Is it true that the traditional arts receive as much coverage and debate as other art forms? I know Ms Quinn said each application is processed and discussed. I imagine any committee discussing applications would have an idea about what art form it would wish to emphasise. Would it be correct to say the traditional arts feel left out of the vision of the Arts Council?
I apologise for being slightly late. I have read the notes and wish to ask a direct question, which does not seem to have been answered. The delegation seems to have been very diplomatic in what it said about the size of the council. I favour reducing the number of members of the Arts Council because - I dislike saying this at a committee - committees often do not necessarily make the best decisions or move swiftly because there is a need for compromise.
I see the reduction as something favourable. The fact that it will be a rolling committee is good because a sense of continuity is important. Will the delegation discuss the practical running of committee meetings in that sense? Are such meetings unwieldy, given that there are 16 members involved? I accept that not every colour will be included if numbers are reduced, but if there are strategic members who move swiftly and contribute at certain times then it is favourable. What is the Arts Council's experience of this?
Mr. Murphy referred to the cohesiveness of the Arts Council, which is important. The splintering that might take effect in the event of breaking it into sub-committees is something to be avoided. Mr. Murphy said the Minister should direct the Arts Council to set up a formal task-oriented traditional committee or another committee. If the standing committees were taken out, as proposed in the Bill, there is nothing to preclude other committees being established. Does the delegation see that as the case?
Ms Quinn said something we need to hear clearly, namely, that the Arts Council is not in a position to fund everyone who deserves it. Many worthwhile people have approached the Arts Council for funds but such funds are not available. I am looking at Ms Cloake and I have been involved with a project which went to the Arts Council seeking funds. No matter how worthwhile projects might be, there is not enough money to go around. We need to be aware of that. Just because people do not get funding does not mean they do not deserve it. I once worked in an arts council type situation and one needs to keep encouraging people when they are demoralised by refusals. That is important in terms of keeping creativity going.
Regarding what Deputy Deenihan said, the delegation should comment again on the budgetary constraints and how the arts plan may suffer as a result.
I welcome the group. I have a question for Ms Quinn. I did not quite catch the breakdown of the percentage allocation of funds, though I believe it was 32% for local authorities and 6% for festivals. Is it possible to go through all of the funding?
Regarding Mr. McLaughlin's recent letter to The Irish Times, is it reasonable to infer from that that there is some form of moratorium on funding for Comhaltas from the Arts Council? That has been drawn to my attention.
I welcome the Arts Council representatives. Does the delegation agree that but for the excellent voluntary work done by people in the traditional arts, those arts would have been dead and buried long ago if they had depended on the Arts Council for funding? The voluntary work done by members of Comhaltas and those in different arts of our ancient culture have received very little support from the council. Does the delegation agree that those arts would be dead and buried if they were dependent on the Arts Council?
I welcome the delegation. What is the Arts Council's relationship with the traditional arts? What is the council's relationship with Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann? Is recent criticism in this area justified?
I will not deal with matters that have already been covered. In the material sent to us by the Arts Council, the issue of the definition of arts was dealt with. The definition referred to art being any creative or interpretative expression, whether traditional or contemporary. Later, in discussing the standing committees, the emphasis was on Irish traditional art. My difficulty is whether it is possible to define Irish traditional art. Will the delegation comment on the fact that one of the three committees - the committee on Irish traditional arts - has a function in making recommendations for grant aid while the others do not? Arising from our discussions last week, I am not convinced one can make the sort of definitions required. For example, what is traditional art or where does traditional start and contemporary end? What is specifically Irish? The delegation has made its position clear but I seek clarity in these areas.
I refer to the 1% of the allocation, which the delegation should explain in more detail. I understand from what has been said that the board decides the policy. Surely if the board decides the policy then the policy should have been to provide more than 1% for traditional arts.
Deputy Wall asked about the publication. My proposal came after the publication of the Bill because I was obviously not expecting the contents of the Bill to take the form they have. I strongly believe in the proposal I put forward.
In the past - the 1970s and 1980s - the members of the Arts Council were appointed by the Taoiseach. It was only in the 1990s, with the appointment of a Minister for the Arts, that council members were appointed by the Minister.
Deputy O'Malley asked about the size of the council and that is probably partly my fault. When I was appointed chairman in February 2000 there were problems between council members and between the council and staff. I hope I have resolved those satisfactorily. I said at the interview that I thought a lower number was more manageable. I have acted on many business boards and many international arts boards and I find smaller boards more manageable. However, I have no difficulty.
Since I started three years ago, the council has been working efficiently and united. We may have a difference of views on the amount of money which should go to the traditional arts, but apart from that ours is a very good council with very good staff. Council and staff are working very satisfactorily, though I would favour a slightly smaller council. Someone said 17 is too small to be totally representative yet too big to be manageable, so Members can take what they like from that. I would favour approximately 12 people personally.
Ms Quinn
I will try to deal with several questions at the same time. Regarding the fundamental question of the arm's length principle, to which Deputy Deenihan referred, the point is that the hand is connected to the body by the arm. The idea that the Arts Council was ever a free agent operating entirely independently of the State has never been the case. Until the beginning of the 1990s we used to report annually in arrears on how we had employed the public's money. We did so by submitting our annual report to the Houses of the Oireachtas. Now we are in a forward planning mode and we outline our position three, four or five years in advance. It has now become the case that we report annually on how we have performed in relation to what we said we would do and what our objectives were. This means our accountability is more measurable and measured and is open to more scrutiny by the Houses of the Oireachtas. That is a process that is welcomed by everyone, especially within the Arts Council.
There is no mystery about our objectives. They are set out and they are six. They are broad in nature and do not relate to any individual art form. Those are the high level objectives of the Arts Council. I will not read them because that would take time but they are inside the front cover of our plan.
Then there are nine individual perspectives on those and they take one through each of the different art forms or arts areas. The one in relation to the traditional arts is to conserve, renew and enrich the traditional arts. For example, we want to make architecture central to our way of life, nurture film as art, raise the quality and quantity of music making and make Irish opera viable. Those are the individual perspectives from the different art forms but our core objectives are of a higher level nature. Just to mention one of them: we want to make an arts career a realistic ambition for excellent and innovative artists, including artists within the traditional arts. We have provided many and increasing supports for individual traditional artists in recent years.
As part of our objectives we also have to broaden and enrich participation in the arts. Included in that is a recognition of the value and importance in our culture of amateur and voluntary participation. We support, across all the art forms including traditional arts, umbrella bodies for arts organisations that serve amateur and voluntary practice in choral music, amateur drama, visual arts and all aspects of the arts where people want to make or create work.
I will ask Dermot McLaughlin to answer some of the more detailed questions on the 1% of the experience we have had of applications from the traditional arts. Following this meeting we will provide the committee with written answers to some of those questions. We have that information.
Deputy Glennon asked a question in relation to the breakdown. That is published in our plan. On pages 46 and 47 of the plan we set out our six development programmes which relate to our six objectives and our four grant programmes. This sets out the relative percentages of what we give for local arts development, which is about 5%; for arts events and festivals, which is about 8%; and for venues, which is in excess of 30%. Production companies get about 22% and resource and facility organisations get about 7%.
Deputy Deenihan asked how we cope with a reduction in the level of our funding as against what was set out in the plan. Like every other statutory agency we are dealing with the current economic realities. We have a very orderly process in place to go back and look into the plan and to ask, having set out a range of priorities, what our priorities are in the current circumstances. When the Arts Council has completed the process of making decisions, which it will do in about two weeks time, we intend to publish - in advance for the first time - an account of the entirety of the applications we have received. We will explain to the public what kind of applications came from where, what the volume of them was, what our percentage response to them was in relation to each of our programmes and what we expect the impact of this to be in realising the priorities we set out in the plan. In that way I hope we will be able to explain to some people why we have given them less funding than they asked for, what we have given funding to instead and why, and why that is important in our view. Accountability is fundamental to the way an arts council works. A body like ours would be very neglectful if it forgot that explaining and accounting to the public for such a large amount of money as we now receive - more than we have ever received in the past - and would cause it to lose contact with the people who depend on us for support.
Deputy Fiona O'Malley's commented on the great sense of rejection experienced by people across all the art forms. The creation of art is a sensitive process and people can feel that sense of rejection for many years. It is unfortunate for us that in the main people see the writing of an arts council grant cheque as an indication of approval. We do not mean it to be so but that is inevitably the case and no amount of acknowledgment and recognition that something is important is going to add up to what a cheque will provide for people if that is what they have asked for. We recognise that.
I will ask Dermot McLaughlin to answer some of Deputy Deenihan's questions.
What about the Arts Council's direct contact with Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann?
Ms Quinn
Mr. McLaughlin was the officer responsible for that.
Mr. Dermot McLaughlin
I will deal with the questions from Deputies Deenihan and Glennon simultaneously. The Arts Council's level of engagement with Comhaltas goes back to the mid-1980s when funding responsibility was transferred from Bord Fáilte to the Arts Council. In the mid-1980s the Arts Council began to employ staff who had expertise in traditional music to help deal with this area. In recent years the Arts Council met Senator Labhras Ó Murchú, the ard-stiúthóir of Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann, Séamas MacMathúna, the timire ceoil, and Clement Mac Suibhne, one of its senior executives, on at least two occasions. Present at those meetings were myself, as art form director, Maura Eaton, our music officer, and Gaye Tanham, our dance and youth arts officer.
We met because Comhaltas had made two funding applications. In 1998 the organisation sought £330,000 and a similar amount in 1999. Those applications were refused by the Arts Council. However the council identified one or two areas which it felt could be explored fruitfully with Comhaltas. These were Scoil Éigse, the summer school which Comhaltas organises every year before the all-Ireland fleadh, and some of its work with young people, particularly in the area of training. However, our experience was that Comhaltas was not receptive to pursuing dialogue on those issues.
We were concerned that information we had from our parent Department suggested that the activities for which Comhaltas had applied for funding were ones for which it was receiving State funding through the Gaeltacht section of the Department. We subsequently had two meetings with the then Minister of State, Deputy Ó Cuív, who assured us that the funding his Department supplied to Comhaltas was for the totality of its activities. We also talked about funding for Siamsa Tíre, book publishing in the Irish language and better co-ordination of cultural services through Irish. We were twice given a clear assurance that if the Arts Council was to begin to fund Comhaltas this would constitute double funding, which could not be allowed to continue. To answer Deputy Glennon's question, I do not know if "moratorium" is the right word but we had a very clear steer from the then Minister of State.
We do worthwhile and valuable work with parts of Comhaltas at local level. We have helped to develop traditional music summer schools in, for example, Tubbercurry in County Sligo, Drumshambo in County Leitrim and Achill Island. All of these events rely heavily on the goodwill of local Comhaltas branches and could not happen on the strength of an Arts Council grant alone. We have also been involved with small events such as festivals, workshops and master classes throughout the country which depend on a local voluntary structure provided by Comhaltas. I would not entertain the contention that the Arts Council has an agenda or a track record of behaviour that is anti-Comhaltas.
Since the 1980s the Arts Council has been involved in a number of important developments which attempted to involve traditional music organisations. One significant development is the establishment of the Irish traditional music archive. Ten years of research went into this project and all the key players, including RTE, the Folklore Commission and Comhaltas, were involved. The record will show that Comhaltas consistently refused to take part in meetings and consultations about this initiative. Recently the Arts Council decided to explore a new initiative for honouring performing artists, including traditional musicians and singers, performers and dancers, etc. We invited about 30 organisations to take part in a conference in December. Our invitation to Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann did not receive an acknowledgement, not to mind a reply. We keep an open mind and an open door on the whole issue.
Deputy Wall asked about the percentage of applications from traditional arts that might be rejected. It is a fraction of 1% of the total applications received. I will provide the precise figure on that in writing. Deputy Kelly inquired whether, in our view, the criticism was fair and justified. I preface my reply by saying it is understandable and predictable. I understand fully where it is coming from. However, evidence shows that the criticism is partial or, at least, partially informed. There is a much wider canvass of support for traditional music which goes way beyond the Arts Council or the Gaeltacht section of the Department. It must include local authorities, education services at primary, secondary and adult education level, tourism, area development plans, our broadcasters - TG4, RTE, Raidió na Gaeltachta, etc. It must take account of all that. The level of support for traditional music in Ireland will be effective provided it is based on purposes and outcomes and not on entitlement for past achievements.
Deputy O'Shea referred to a definition of traditional artists. I refer the Deputy to our original submission to the consultation document circulated by the former Minister for Arts, Heritage, Gaeltacht and the Islands, Deputy de Valera. On page 24 we offered what we thought was a useful definition. However, it is not reflected in the Arts Bill, 2002. We said there were four distinct dimensions one should keep in mind. Briefly, these were the contemporary performing arts including traditional, instrumental and vocal music and traditional dance. That would include musical composition and song writing. The contemporary innovative creative element is vital.
The second element we offered was a verbal arts element which would include storytelling, recitation, miming, mumming, agallamh beirte, lúibíní - the Irish and English language traditions. We also offered a heritage dimension. Professor Ó Cróinín would empathise with us on this. It would include aspects of folk life such as functional arts like thatching, wall building and the creation of artefacts. The final dimension we suggested included craft. This could be both creative and functional. The renaissance of contemporary tapestry in the Gaeltacht regions is good evidence of that. The Arts Council would claim credit for some of the partnership we have with Údarás na Gaeltachta to develop the traditional and contemporary arts in Gaeltacht areas.
Unfortunately, we have let matters run on a bit and the Minister is waiting to come in. In summary, we would be well set up if we had about ten times the money, if we had one Department which would embrace education, culture, and heritage, and if we had one source of funding to which everybody knew they could go for money. However, we do not live in an ideal world and we will have to try in committee to make the best decisions in regard to this particular Bill. I thank the Arts Council for coming today and for all the information it supplied.
I am sorry to interrupt but my question about the 1% was not answered.
The answer on that was that a written reply will be sent to us. It was addressed and it was pointed out that it cuts between local authority funding and venues. The written reply will break down the figures more effectively.
I am not too happy about that.
We did not have much time this morning. The Arts Council should come back to us and we should go through its plans again in the future.
I said that this morning. We will not have a time bar the next time. Today we were just trying to accommodate the council before the Bill came to us. I appreciate the book on the previous two Bills. The more things change, the more they remain the same. The bit I have read so far has been fascinating. I thank the council for the information provided. Some questions are outstanding and we would appreciate any information the council can supply as soon as possible. We look forward to a longer session with the council in the new year.
Thank you.
Vote 35 - Arts, Sport and Tourism (Second Supplementary).
I welcome the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism. We are dealing today with the second Supplementary Estimate for the Department, Vote 35, which is based on this year's money and not the Book of Estimates. We will take a contribution from the Minister followed by comments or questions.
I thank the Chairman and members of the committee for giving me this opportunity to elaborate on the details of the Supplementary Estimate for my Department's Vote for 2002. As this is my first appearance before the committee I welcome all of the members and look forward to working closely with them in addressing the many challenges we face in the implementation of the Department's policies. Each person will make his or her own contribution to the work of the committee and no doubt will serve the committee well in the years ahead. I congratulate the Chair on her appointment and wish her well.
Before outlining details of the Supplementary Estimate, it would be useful to make some general comments in relation to the tourism sector. I have already set out in considerable detail my views and policy approach to tourism in debates in the Dáil and Seanad in recent months.
Although definitive CSO figures are not yet to hand, the best advice available to me at this stage from the tourism State agencies suggests that 2002 will see a partial recovery from the decline in visitor numbers evidenced in 2001. I understand that the outturn for 2002 is likely to show an increase of between 2% to 3% in overseas visitor numbers on the previous year. This will bring us back to close to year 2000 performance, which was a record year for Irish tourism and the culmination of ten years of uninterrupted growth during the 1990s. Forecasts suggest that in 2002, visitor numbers from Britain will increase by about 6%, mainland European figures will be up 3% while North American numbers will be down 10%.
I am conscious that these top line figures mask significant variations on the ground at regional and sectoral level. The decline in the US market will impact more adversely on the higher grade hotels, coach tours, retail shopping and visitor attractions than would be suggested by overall numbers. Within the American market there is a switch towards more independent travel and price conscious travellers stimulated by cheaper fares. Indirect travel from the US has stood up better than direct arrivals reflecting the constraints on direct air capacity this year during the peak season. There would appear to be changes in demand patterns within the British market with shorter off-peak stays proving stronger than main holidays. There are variable results between source markets within mainland Europe, with Germany and the Scandinavian countries being relatively weak, while Italy and Spain have exhibited growth.
I look forward next Monday to launching the detailed marketing plans and programmes for 2003 of Tourism Ireland Limited and Bord Fáilte. While the outlook for next year is one of uncertainty - economically, politically and corporately - the State agencies will be targeting growth, in sympathy with the positive results of a recent barometer of trade sentiment by Bord Fáilte. Despite the pressures on the Government finances, the tourism agencies will have access next year to the largest ever international tourism marketing budget with, in particular, an increase of €5 million in the tourism marketing fund, which will increase from €25.4 million to €30.4 million.
In terms of access next year, new route development will result in an increase from six to eight in the number of US gateways with the planned introduction in May 2003 of a new scheduled service from Philadelphia by US Airways and the re-introduction of the Aer Lingus service from Baltimore-Washington. Air Canada will also be continuing its Toronto service. Continental Europe will benefit from a number of new services introduced by Aer Lingus and I am confident that the proposals to develop additional fast turnaround facilities at Dublin Airport will yield further additional services in the future. The excellent existing air and sea access from Britain will continue to provide a range of competitive and efficient services to help drive business from that source.
Given the difficult challenges facing the tourism sector over the past two years, I have focused on the following range of key issues during my first six month period in office as Minister: freeing up as much of the tourism budget as possible for front line marketing activities to generate extra business; exhorting the industry to provide better value for money and to improve competitiveness in the light of criticism this year of pricing and quality levels; supporting Tourism Ireland Limited in autumn promotional campaigns in the US and Britain designed to win incremental business this year; progressing the legislation to establish the new National Tourism Development Authority, to be known as Fáilte Ireland, which will bring together the functions currently carried out by Bord Fáilte and CERT; and putting in place arrangements for a major strategic review of tourism policy to set a new policy direction for the sector.
Turning to the details of the Supplementary Estimate in so far as tourism is concerned, I propose to increase the B.1 subhead of my Vote - Bord Fáilte Éireann - grants under section 2 of the Tourist Traffic Act, 1961 - by €250,000. This will bring the total provision this year under this subhead to €41.97 million. The additional funding will be used by Bord Fáilte to phase payments for the 2003 St. Patrick's national festival in line with actual commitments incurred, thereby reducing the need for the festival company to incur overdraft facilities towards the end of the calendar year.
The St. Patrick's parade and festival in Dublin has been transformed in recent years by the festival company, most recently under the chairmanship of Senator Feargal Quinn, and the Dublin parade plays a significant role abroad, particularly in the US and Continental Europe, in signalling the start of the tourist season in Ireland. On a recent promotional campaign in the United States I was greatly reminded of the importance of the St. Patrick's Day parade in Dublin, when people involved in the travel trade informed me that the cancellation of the parade during the foot and mouth crisis was a mortal blow to the tour operators in America who bring people to Ireland. When the parade was cancelled it was taken as a signal that there were very serious difficulties. Nobody should underestimate the importance of this parade in terms of the tourism industry. We sometimes forget that people are watching and we would do well to remember that. The revamped festival has succeeded in attracting increased visitors in its own right to Ireland during the off-peak season while at the same time generating valuable international media coverage.
I propose to increase the B.7 subhead of my Vote - Tourism Marketing Fund - by €500,000 to €25.9 million. This funding will be used to strengthen a series of 2003 tourism season kick-start marketing programmes by Tourism Ireland Limited between now and the end of the year. These mixed media programmes, at a total cost of some €2 million will take place in Britain, the United States, Germany, France and Australia and will be very welcomed by the tourism industry as a further boost to the tourism promotional effort.
On the cultural side of the Supplementary Estimate, the Department's primary cultural role is to support the national cultural institutions through the provision of Exchequer funding on an annual basis and through a range of other policy and operational measures to assist them in developing their services to the public.
The National Concert Hall is Ireland's most prestigious music venue. The magnificent building was designed in the classical style for the Great Exhibition of 1865. The principal activities of the National Concert Hall Company, in accordance with its memorandum and articles of association are to provide a national concert hall for the promotion of concerts and recitals of musical works of artistic, educational or cultural value, to provide facilities for practice, rehearsals and performances by the National Symphony Orchestra and to promote and encourage the performance of music and other artistic performances to the highest standards. In 2002, the National Concert Hall held 381 events.
This year the National Concert Hall's allocation is €1,400,000 current funding and €143,000 capital funding. The main current expenditure of the National Concert Hall's allocation is for administrative purposes. The proposed Supplementary Estimate will provide €76,000 for the installation of a digital telephone system that will enable the National Concert Hall to service its customers more efficiently through the latest technology. An additional €18,000 is being sought for IT software to enable the National Concert Hall to absorb any costs resulting from Internet ticket sales.
In February 2000, the Chester Beatty Library and museum relocated from its Shrewsbury Road premises and opened to the public for the first time at its new city centre location at the Clock Tower Building at Dublin Castle. This exciting museum has opened a window on the artistic treasures of the great cultures and religions of the world and with its excellent central location makes these treasures more accessible to the public. In 2000, the Gulbenkian Foundation presented the museum of the year award to the Chester Beatty Library for these new facilities and gallery spaces. This year the library won the European museum of the year award. Egyptian papyrus texts, beautifully illuminated copies of the Qur'an, and the Bible, European medieval and renaissance manuscripts are among the highlights of the collection. This year the Chester Beatty Library has attracted approximately 100,000 visitors.
In 2002 the Chester Beatty Library's allocation was €1,419,000 current funding. The allocation in 2002 was utilised in respect of staffing and salaries costs associated with the Chester Beatty Library. Following extensive research and external advice from museum professionals overseas, the library has been advised to put a new unique system in place. The Supplementary Estimate will provide €80,000 to help cover the cost of the implementation of a hand-held audio device system. This audio-visual tour will be capable of storing a large amount of information in both video and audio format. It is anticipated that this will attract further visitors to the library in 2003 as approximately ten languages will eventually be incorporated into the audio-visual tour. This should have a very positive effect in attracting a wider range of overseas tourists to the Chester Beatty galleries.
The Irish Museum of Modern Art is Ireland's leading national institution for the collection and presentation of modern and contemporary art. The museum presents a wide variety of art in a dynamic programme of exhibitions which regularly includes bodies of work from the museum's own collection. The museum is housed in the magnificently-restored 17th century Royal Hospital building and grounds which include a stunning baroque chapel, great hall, formal garden, meadow and medieval burial grounds as well as other historical buildings.
In 2002 the Irish Museum of Modern Art's allocation was €3,635,000 current and €525,000 capital funding. The allocation to the Irish Museum of Modern Art in 2002 covered general overheads including marketing and advertising costs, training costs, curatorial, technical information, technology and management staff. It included €525,000 to assist the museum with the acquisition of works of art. I propose the provision of an additional €38,000 for a new security equipment system. This incorporates an identity card system, alarmed exhibition plinths, art identification system and asset protection system. An additional €170,000 is being sought to cover a deficit in the cost for fuel and light and the costs of the recruitment of a new director.
I now turn briefly to the savings in subhead B8 of my Department's Vote, which will offset the funds required under the Supplementary Estimate. The subhead B8 Estimate provision was intended to allow for the Exchequer contribution towards certain capital tourism projects that might be grant-aided under Bord Fáilte's tourist product development scheme. This scheme is co-funded from the European Regional Development Fund, European Regional Development Fund, under the two regional operational programmes.
The savings arise in subhead B8 due to the fact that the rate of spend has been slower than anticipated, largely due to the fact that the grant scheme had to secure State aids approval from the European Commission's Competition Directorate before it could be launched. After prolonged and intensive negotiations during 2001, approval was obtained in November 2001 and the scheme was finally launched on 29 January 2002.
Interest in the scheme was better than had been expected in some quarters and 266 applications were received. The scheme is competitive and applications have to be appraised in the first instance by the regional tourism authorities - and Shannon Development in its area - and then assessed and scored in terms of the approved criteria by Bord Fáilte before submission to the independent product management boards. While some 53% of the applications under the special interest category have since been invited to submit more detailed proposals, no actual grant approvals will be made in 2002. The applications under the clusters category will be presented to this month's meeting of the product management board.
I commend the Supplementary Estimate to the committee.
I welcome the Minister to what I understand is his first meeting with this new committee. He referred to the launch of his marketing plans and programmes for Tourism Ireland and Bord Fáilte for 2003. According to the Estimate which, no doubt, will be discussed in greater detail later, there appears to be a reduction in funding for Bord Fáilte's indigenous marketing for 2003 and an increase for Tourism Ireland. Perhaps the Minister will clarify that in his reply.
I welcome the fact that US Air is coming on board this year with services from Philadelphia. Do I understand correctly that this will involve two flights per day, one to Dublin and one to Shannon, with some 300 passengers per flight? Instead of the current plans for a May to October service, would it be possible to extend it from March to November? The Minister referred to competitiveness in the light of criticism this year of price and quality levels. Following publication of the ITIC report, he accused the industry of over-pricing and raised some questions about quality. The industry responded that it was compelled to charge more because of the high VAT rate in this country. After yesterday's Budget Statement, the VAT rate on accommodation has increased from 12.5% to 13.5%. The corresponding rates in competitor countries are substantially lower, at 5.5% in France, 7% in Spain and a general average of about 5% across our main competitor countries.
The tourism industry sees that comparative disadvantage as a major factor in our lack of competitiveness. I understand there is also a higher VAT rate on food and the Government has allowed an increase in electricity charges. Perhaps it cannot control insurance costs, but there should be some intervention in that area having regard to plans announced by the Tánaiste, DeputyHarney. There are indications of increases of at least 40% and possibly as high as 200% in insurance costs for hotels for the next year. The loss of competitiveness in the tourism industry is not within the control of the industry itself. Government intervention is essential and the absence of any favourable move on the VAT issue in the budget was most disappointing.
Shortly after the Minister took up his current portfolio, I tabled a motion on tourism in the Dáil. At that time, the Minister questioned the usefulness of expenditure on marketing in America. I pointed out that the UK Government was spending Stg£40 million on the American market and Prime Minister Tony Blair appeared with his family on television programmes welcoming people to visit the UK. That certainly worked and we benefited on the back of that UK advertising campaign. Last year, we were fortunate that some one third of American visitors to this country came via the UK. Up to last May, Bord Fáilte or Tourism Ireland had a very effective campaign, using Martin Sheen to advertise Ireland, following which the US authorities employed him to advertise holidays in Washington.
American tourists now make their decisions on holiday destinations at a much later stage than in former years, often just a few weeks before travelling. I have first-hand information to that effect in relation to a group of US travel agents visiting Kerry next week. They planned their holiday only three weeks ago. That underlines the need for an ongoing marketing campaign to keep potential visitors constantly reminded of this country's tourist attractions. I welcome the Minister's action in kick-starting the advertising campaign earlier than heretofore. Success in attracting visitors to Ireland will be in proportion to the level of expenditure on the campaign, provided it is spent wisely and well targeted.
The Minister referred to the National Concert Hall. That has been the subject of questions from my party in the Dáil recently. Perhaps the Minister will comment on current plans for the National Concert Hall. Its capacity for hosting major international performances is somewhat restricted and there is ongoing speculation about possible relocation from its current site. Will the Minister comment on that matter?
With regard to the tourism product development scheme, to which the Minister referred, I appreciate that the delay in getting it off the ground may be due to the slow response from the EU Commission. However, the delay is most regrettable. In north Kerry, there is a cluster proposal between the Tintawn project in Ballybunion - for which the Minister recently turned the first sod with great grace and dignity - the literary centre in Listowel and the unique Lartique restoration project, of which I am chairman.
Grace and dignity.
We have been very patient. The proposal has been received and I am glad to see that the clusters will come before the management board shortly. The Minister mentioned that he is taking an arm's length approach and that it will be up to the independent product management boards to make the decision, but I would like him, on the advice of his officials, to confirm that there will be no delays in making a decision. The project in Ballybunion, which will be one of the biggest and most spectacular theatre projects in the country, is being held up because of slow decision making and the expectation that funding will be delivered for this cluster proposal. I understand it is the only one that Shannon Development has recommended and the feedback that has been received suggests it is one of the best cluster proposals in the country. Will the Minister answer my questions in his response.
I welcome the Minister. I do not have much to say about the Estimates other than to support what Deputy Deenihan has said about insurance, which is the source of many problems for all sectors of tourism. Small and medium sized enterprises are suffering great losses as a result of the cost of insurance and something will have to be done in the short-term. SMEs and businesses involved in the tourism industry are encountering difficulties in County Kildare and, I am sure, in all parts of the country. The proposals in the Supplementary Estimate are welcome additions to the various areas covered. I am sure the security provisions will make a difference to the Chester Beatty collection, although the Department could give the Minister some advice about the security arrangements at Russborough House, where there is an ongoing problem in relation to the theft of paintings. I am not sure if this is within the remit of the Department, but it should be looked at. Will the Minister ensure that the insurance problems faced by the tourism industry are examined at Government level as a matter of urgency.
I welcome the Minister and I will be brief. I am a little disappointed that the Minister has not given a breakdown of the figures of US airlines using our airports. How many will use Shannon Airport? County Clare depends on tourism to a large extent and I would like to see a breakdown of the figures I have mentioned. Will the Minister ensure that Shannon and Dublin are marketed on an equal footing in North America?
I welcome the moneys that have been allocated to the National Concert Hall. When I was a member of another committee, we received many representations from those involved with a number of the concert hall's concerns, so I know that extra money is welcome.
In reply to Deputy Deenihan, the budget of Bord Fáilte has been reduced by €4 million. I assure the committee this does not mean there will be a cutback in its key front line marketing services, as it is important that such services are maintained. The money used by Tourism Ireland internationally complements Bord Fáilte's expenditure and should result in a much more aggressive campaign in our foreign markets. The decrease in Bord Fáilte's budget will mean there will have to be a greater level of resourcefulness in the operation of the programme of festivals and cultural events, as well as sports tourism, if we are to make the necessary savings. There will not be a reduction in front line activities, such as international marketing.
Next Monday, Bord Fáilte and Tourism Ireland will launch a detailed programme of initiatives. I am satisfied there will be a large range of activities, not only abroad but also in Ireland. I fully agree with Deputy Deenihan that the tradition whereby people booked their holidays many months in advance has almost disappeared; I have said this on a number of occasions. It is important, therefore, that marketing expenditure should continue throughout the year. There was a front line spend early in 2002, heavily loaded in favour of the start of the year. This meant that when I became Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism in June, marketing had been carried out to a large degree. By late August or early September, it had become quite clear that tourism marketing needed a boost and a fund of €3 million was established to that end by making savings in other areas. The fund was spent wisely in Britain and, to a lesser degree, in continental Europe and the United States. There is no doubt that the fund boosted the industry, as the figures show that there is a link between increased marketing expenditure and increased tourist numbers.
The issue of clusters under the tourism development programme is under examination by the board. I hope assessments will be carried out in an expeditious manner and that we will soon be in a position to make announcements in relation to the allocations. Deputy Wall asked about the theft of paintings from Russborough House and the authorities there are responsible for the house's security arrangements.
The subject of flights was raised by Deputy James Breen. The new service from Philadelphia will not only serve Dublin Airport but, I am pleased to say, Shannon Airport too. I am a great supporter of Shannon Airport, which has benefited the mid-west region over many years, and I am pleased that the US Airways service will stop there. The news will be welcomed in the Shannon region. It is important to point out that adding another two cities to the six US gateways that serve Ireland constitutes an increase of one third. As the new services from Baltimore-Washington and Philadelphia will be used by the ethnic Irish populations in those areas, visitor numbers from the US will increase. Tourism Ireland's objective for next year is to increase tourism numbers by 5%. If this is achieved, it will be a significant development and will have a beneficial effect on the economy generally. It is sometimes not realised that tourism is quickly becoming the single biggest industry in Ireland. At the moment it generates €4 billion in foreign revenue and €1.2 billion in domestic expenditure. It supports 150,000 jobs. It is very important that we increase access where possible. The additional Aer Lingus flights from Europe should be of great assistance, as would the quick turnaround facility to which I previously alluded.
Deputy Deenihan expressed concern in regard to VAT rates and excise duties. It is true that the industry has expressed concern on both of these issues in the past. The reduction in corporation tax announced in yesterday's budget should be of major benefit to the industry. Any reduction in taxation, in particular, in regard to corporate taxes can only be of benefit to the tourism industry at large. I sincerely hope that this proves to be the case.
I accept what the Deputy said on the restrictions in regard to the National Concert Hall. There are limitations in respect of the performance area and the seating arrangements. The building dates back to 1865. It is so old, I was a student there. We were singing a different tune that time. I am examining the issue, but its future development and the adaptation of the concert hall on the current site is problematic. We are looking at an alternative site. After that, it is a question of funding. I hope to bring proposals to the Government regarding it in the near future. I hope I have dealt with everything.
Please accept my apologies. I am trying to attend two committees at the same time.
The Progressive Democrats will need to get more TDs at the next election.
Yes, we will. I apologise if I am repeating questions that were already asked. Procedurally, I am not sure if my questions are appropriate, so please forgive me if they are not. This is my first time questioning a Minister in a committee. In regard to the allocation for the interactive audio system, is it intended that users would pay for it so that it would generate its own funding?
Is the identity card system in regard to the Irish Museum of Modern Art intended for the staff or is it an inventory system for the collection? A sum of €170,000 is sought to cover the deficits for fuel and lighting and the recruitment of the new director. I was previously involved in the recruitment of a director for the museum and a candidate was identified last year. What proportion of the €170,000 relates to the recruitment of the new appointee?
I agree that corporation tax has been reduced but the industry has an obligation to charge VAT and pass it on to the Government. Is there any way that the reduction in corporation tax can be passed on in reduced pricing? A survey carried out by the Irish Hotels Federation showed that the profitability of a bed night last year was far less than in the previous year.
The Minister mentioned that there is a proposal to move the National Concert Hall to another site. Is the Minster at liberty to inform us of the location of a possible alternative site?
Maybe Listowel.
Or Killarney.
The national event centre is there and it is a fine place. Will the Minister further elaborate on the subject of the competitiveness of Irish tourism which is a problem? We have all met people coming into Ireland who have not been here for some time. They cannot understand how prices have increased so much. Ten years ago it was a relatively cheap destination and competitive vis-à-vis our major tourism competitors in the UK, but now it is rather expensive. Dublin, in particular, has become as expensive as Paris or any other large city in Europe. The area of competitiveness is important in regard to increasing tourist numbers, which the Minister is adamant will be improved by some 5% next year.
Deputy O'Malley raised the question of whether payment will be required from customers of the audio-visual tour. That will be a matter for the board. We will not decide it here. It is a way of raising revenue if the board wishes to do it. Sometimes it is best not to charge, but the board is best placed to make that judgment.
The ID cards referred to are for the staff. Of the €170,000, a total of €90,000 is for the director and the balance is for electrical services.
Deputy Deenihan raised the question of whether hotels, guesthouses and so on, are going to pass on the benefit of corporation tax. If so, it would be done by way of special packages and the like. We cannot dictate these packages. We have consistently said that value for money is of immense importance. We cannot pretend that Ireland will become a low cost, mass destination. Value for money is extremely important and it impacts on competitiveness. At a party meeting yesterday, a colleague of mine mooted the idea of a bed tax. I resisted that proposal for fear that it would only encourage people to double up. There are other ways of promoting free love.