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SELECT COMMITTEE ON COMMUNICATIONS, ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES debate -
Wednesday, 14 Nov 2007

Universal Postal Union: Motion.

This meeting has been called for the purpose of considering a motion which has been referred to the select committee for consideration. The motion relates to the Universal Postal Union and states:

That Dáil Éireann approve the terms of certain Acts of the 2004 congress of the Universal Postal Union signed at Bucharest on 5 October, namely, the seventh additional protocol for the constitution of the Universal Postal Union, the general regulation of the Universal Postal Union, the Universal Postal Convention and final protocol thereto, and the Postal Payments Services Agreement, copies of which have been laid before Dáil Éireann on 31 July 2007.

I welcome the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Eamon Ryan, to the meeting. This is his first appearance before the committee. I am sure we will have many opportunities in the future to meet on other matters. I also welcome the Minister's officials to the meeting. I invite the Minister to make his opening remarks on the motion. I will then invite members to ask questions on the motion.

Before we proceed, members might wish to make a brief contribution as it is the committee's first meeting and the Minister's first appearance at it.

We are making history in that for the first time we have a Minister from the Green Party looking after communications, energy and natural resources. I wish the Minister well in the significant challenges he faces. He held strong views when in opposition when I served with him on this committee for a number of years. I am sure he still holds those views and will be challenged in getting agreement for them at Cabinet. My job is to assist him in that process by pushing positive change, particularly on the agenda of energy efficiency, climate change and so on. While I agree with him on many issues, my job as Opposition spokesperson is to hold him to account. I will do so.

I, too, wish the Minister well. He has a difficult brief. Communications, energy and natural resources could all be described as cutting edge. I hope progress can be made during his term of office. He has, generally, been open and accountable in his dealing with Members.

I was dismayed when a parliamentary question I had submitted was disallowed by the Ceann Comhairle. It was a policy question relating to rural post offices, an issue we are discussing. I ask the Minister to indicate to the Ceann Comhairle that he wishes to maintain his open line of communication with Members of the House. In my question I asked for the Minister's view on rural postal services. This is an issue of policy, not of management. I was surprised when the question was refused. I ask the Minister to consider these points. He has a genuine interest in maintaining contact with this committee and providing us with information. I appreciate the fact that he has been very open so far. I hope this will continue and that the Ceann Comhairle will adopt the same approach as the Minister.

I extend my thanks to the Minister for his attendance at the committee. The last time the Minister was here, he was asking questions, not answering them. The Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources is both challenging and far reaching. I commend the Minister for his enthusiastic and committed approach to his role.

One of the biggest challenges facing the economy is presented by the cost and security of energy supply, particularly the price of oil. Central to the Government's energy policy are security, sustainability and competitiveness. We all agree on the need for a responsible and efficient energy policy, in addition to the need to develop renewable and alternative sources of energy. I look forward to working with the Minister again and learning more about how we are progressing in meeting these renewable energy targets.

The previous coalition Government was firmly committed to making Ireland a broadband nation. I am delighted the Minister has also been proactive and energetic in this regard. Our record is one of significant achievement and we can be confident of further progress. From just 3,000 broadband users in 2002 to almost 700,000 today, Irish consumers are subscribing to broadband services in one guise or another. It is my hope that the new national broadband scheme will ensure that all reasonable requests for broadband in unreserved areas are met.

We are here to talk with the Minister about the Universal Postal Union, an international organisation which co-ordinates postal policies between member states. It is, in effect, the worldwide postal system. The Minister said recently that the development of the postal market required the availability of competitive, high quality products, while at the same time maintaining the universal service. I look forward to hearing his thoughts on competition in the sector and on the role An Post will play. I congratulate the Minister on his appointment and hope we can replicate the good working relationship we enjoyed as committee colleagues.

How does one follow that?

One does not.

I welcome the Minister and congratulate him on his elevation. I served with him on the previous committee and I am sure he will bring to bear his great knowledge of the subject in his role as Minister. I look forward to working with him.

I congratulate the Minister on his appointment and wish him well. Like Deputy Coveney, I must hold the Minister to account in matters relating to rural Ireland. It is important that we have an opportunity to do this and I look forward to doing so.

In common with the Minister, whose first meeting this is in his capacity as Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, this is my first meeting as a humble ordinary member. Unlike the Vice Chairman, I did not come here to make a big speech to rattle the Minister, although I look forward to doing so. The Minister has taken up many issues in which I have an interest, particularly that of rural services.

I apologise for being late. I join other speakers on this side in congratulating the Minister on his appointment. Some weeks ago he announced his plans for the 100% roll-out of broadband. I look forward to interpreting his definition of "100% roll-out" during the coming months and years.

I congratulate the Chairman and Vice Chairman, with whom I had the privilege of working during the past five years, on their appointments. I look forward to working with Deputies Coveney and McManus as Opposition spokespersons and all other committee members.

There is no one area of my ministerial brief that has higher priority than another. There are enormous consequences for the people in the decisions we will make regarding telecommunications, broadcasting and natural resources, whether it be the way in which we manage our rivers or explore for resources and so on. I would not like it to be considered that any one area of my departmental responsibilities has greater priority than another, as that is not true. Each issue must be tackled in the interests of the public and there is an obligation on all of us to do so.

I hope it will be possible to draw on the experience of the previous committee, on which Deputies Coveney, Kelly and Kenneally served. My experience as an Opposition member was that we did some interesting and useful work. The work of that committee, whether it be in the area of broadband, fisheries or energy, was particularly useful when not done on a party political basis but on a genuine investigative basis on behalf of the people. It will be possible for this committee to undertake work in which it will examine in detail the complexities of rural and urban life. I hope, when considering its work programme, its members will have similar ambitions in terms of becoming experts in certain briefs.

The agenda for the Department includes issues such as how we will move to next generation broadband network, on which the position has changed since we last spoke on it less than a year ago. The playing pitch has changed and it might be worth investigating this change. I will be happy to work with the committee in that regard. Likewise, in broadcasting, digital television is now the reality rather than an aspiration, as was the case three or four years ago.

I am sure the Chairman has ideas in respect of where the committee may wish to concentrate its priorities. I will, therefore, leave the matter to his good offices. I look forward to working with committee members in that regard and in the context of the legislative framework we have to get through. I will speak to the Ceann Comhairle about the matter raised by Deputy McManus with regard to the provision of as open and comprehensive a response as possible on the issues being discussed.

I bring before the committee a motion seeking Dáil approval of the seventh additional protocol to the constitution of the Universal Postal Union, known as the UPU, and amendments to the basic Acts, consisting of the general regulations of the UPU, the Universal Postal Convention and the Postal Payment Services Agreement. These were signed at the 23rd congress of the UPU in Bucharest on 5 October 2004.

The motion is necessary under Article 29.5.2° of Bunreacht na hÉireann which requires that Dáil Éireann approve the terms of international agreements involving a charge on public funds. Following approval of the motion, the Minister for Foreign Affairs will arrange for ratification of the seventh additional protocol and approval by Ireland of the other Acts. In accordance with Article 29.5.1° of Bunreacht na hÉireann, the Acts of the 2004 congress have been laid before the Oireachtas.

I would like to begin by providing some background information that may be useful. The UPU is the body which governs international postal services and is the primary forum for co-operation between the designated public postal operators of its 191 member countries. It was established in 1874 as an intergovernmental body and has had the status of a specialised agency of the UN since 1947. Ireland became a member in 1923.

The basic Act of the UPU is its constitution which was adopted in 1964. Amendments to the constitution and the general regulations can only be made at congress, the supreme body of the UPU, by means of additional protocols. Modifications to the other basic Acts are also only possible at such conferences. At the most recent congress in Bucharest in 2004, the Irish delegation signed, pending approval by Dáil Éireann, the seventh additional protocol, the general regulations, the Universal Postal Convention, and the Postal Payment Services Agreement.

These amendments brought changes which are, in the main, procedural and administrative in nature. As a result, the changes have virtually no impact on Ireland. However, the approval of Dáil Éireann is required by Bunreacht na hÉireann. The objective of the UPU is to develop social, cultural and commercial communications between people through the efficient operation of the postal service. As an intergovernmental institution, the UPU is called upon to play an important leadership role in promoting the continued revitalisation of postal services. As the organisation's mandate is limited to the regulation of international postal affairs, it does not interfere in matters that fall within the domestic remit of national postal services. For example, individual members are responsible for decisions relating to the management of their postal operations.

The UPU is made up of three councils, the Postal Operations Council, the Council of Administration and a new Consultative Committee, established in 2004. The Postal Operations Council deals with operational, economic and commercial aspects of the international postal service.

The Council of Administration supervises the work of the UPU between congresses and has responsibility for general principles and policy. The role of the Consultative Committee is to represent the interests of the wider, international postal sector. Its membership is drawn from consumer and private operator representative groups. Ireland does not have a seat on either the Council of Administration or the Postal Operations Committee and did not put forward its candidature at Bucharest.

Membership of the UPU involves an obligation to pay a contribution. Members are divided into unit classes which set contribution levels. Ireland's annual contribution to the UPU amounts to approximately €131,000. As the payments are made in Swiss francs, the amount can change, depending on currency fluctuations. Under the existing UPU budgetary policy a ceiling is placed on overall expenditure which ensures that Ireland's contribution cannot exceed €200,000 for the years up to 2008.

In addition to the constitution of the UPU, the basic Acts are the general regulations and the Universal Postal Convention. These are binding on all members. The general regulations set out the various internal rules of procedure and the Universal Postal Convention contains the common rules applicable to the international postal service. In 2004, the general regulations were made permanent, meaning that any future changes will be by means of additional protocols.

In addition to these mandatory acts, the Irish delegation also signed the Postal Payment Services Agreement. This was optional and introduced new provisions to enable fund transfers via electronic networks and the possibility of participation by non-postal networks, such as the banking sector.

A number of other key changes were made at Bucharest. These relate principally to enhanced organisational structures and procedures, such as improved international mail handling arrangements through amendments to the terminal dues system and enhanced quality of service for customers. A mission statement was incorporated in the text which describes the union's goal as promoting the "efficient and accessible universal postal services of quality in order to facilitate communication between the inhabitants of the world". The existing terms of "postal service" and "single postal territory", which essentially means unhindered access for mail despatches across borders, were also defined for the first time in the text.

Membership of the UPU complements Irish and European postal policy in that the UPU attaches a significant degree of importance to universal service, quality of service and innovation within the postal sector. However, as Deputies will be aware, the postal sector in Ireland is governed by the European directives transposed into Irish law. In the event of discord between the EU position and that of the UPU or regarding the EU interpretation of obligations under the general agreement on trade in services of the World Trade Organisation, EU law takes precedence. A declaration was made by the 25 member states to this effect on signing the Acts at Bucharest. The Acts in question streamline the structures and procedures in the UPU, improve international mail handling arrangements and enhance quality of service for customers. I ask, therefore, that members support the ratification of the protocol to the UPU and approval of the Acts, as amended.

As I understand it, this, for the most part, is mandatory, unless we choose to leave the UPU structures, with which I do not have a problem in principle. However, I seek clarification of one or two issues.

I am glad the Minister has clarified that EU law takes precedence. In other words, everything requested under the UPU is covered under EU law and this is only a formality. However, I am not clear on the postal payment services agreement which we are signing, in addition to the mandatory provisions which we are approving. The briefing note we have received places a slightly different emphasis on this matter than did the Minister. It refers to the postal payment services agreement under which new provisions were introduced to enable funds transfer via electronic networks and the possibility of participation by non-postal networks, namely, the banking sector. Does this mean that non-postal operators will become involved in postal services such as transfers between businesses and banks previously operated in Ireland by An Post? I am not sure to what this refers and how it may affect the business of An Post prior to the introduction by 2011 or 2012 of competition in the market. Perhaps the Minister will clarify this issue. I am happy with everything else.

It relates primarily to developing countries. There already is in place in Ireland a system of electronic funds transfer. I am told it will not affect current or future provision.

I do not have a difficulty with approving the motion. As far as I can determine, there is a convention with regard to postal service standards. An examination of our own service shows particular difficulties are still being experienced. The most recent evidence is the late delivery of one in four letters, despite the stated 94% next day delivery target. While at one level we are involved in international agreements, the reality is often very different. I wonder what is the relationship between the two. Perhaps the Minister will clarify the role he plays in this regard. This does not apply to delivery only but also to ease of access for people in rural communities. There is a geographic problem for many in accessing the services of the local post office.

Ireland was recently found by the European court not to be in breach of European law in respect of social welfare contract tendering. People often have to queue, be it in a bank or post office, to avail of a service for which they should not have to queue. I merely asked the Minister's view of the closure of local post offices and whether or not he considers it detrimental. I am blocked. While he has a role in signing agreements at an international level, what is his role in relation to An Post in Ireland? Does he not have a significant role and one that should be open to scrutiny by Members of the House and of this committee?

We are straying slightly but I am prepared to give the Deputy some latitude

I disagree fundamentally. I am not straying. I am asking the relevance of an international agreement which makes commitments regarding standards, and how it translates to Ireland? That is a perfectly reasonable question.

I accept that but the debate on rural post offices is for another day.

I am asking about the Minister's role.

Domestic service levels are not governed by this agreement. Much of our international mail is covered by bilateral agreements within the EU or with other countries, which set some of the service levels. This is a more general international service level agreement.

I am happy to touch on delivery service briefly. I try to represent the public interest as well as possible to make sure we have the most flexible, cost effective and speedy postal delivery service, among other services. I am encouraged by certain improvements in recent times over an unsatisfactory level of service. The figures for same day and next day deliveries have increased and they need to continue to rise. This committee, as well as the Department and myself, has a role in looking to see what is happening in that regard.

The primary role of monitoring that situation and implementing ongoing service checks lies with the management of the company but also with ComReg, the statutory authority which assesses the level of service delivery. The role of the Department, and our role as politicians, is to examine the broad policy structures, to act as invigilators of our regulators and to ask them for clarification of particular service issues or of the management of the company. It is not to be engaged on a day-to-day level in managing those service level deliveries or in managing the regulation. That role lies with ComReg.

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