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SELECT COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND SCIENCE debate -
Wednesday, 17 Oct 2001

Vol. 4 No. 4

Youth Work Bill, 2000: Committee Stage.

I welcome the Minister of State at the Department of Education and Science, Deputy O'Dea, and his officials. Members have been circulated with copies of the Bill and amendments. I propose that we complete consideration of the Bill this afternoon. Is that agreed? Agreed.

Sections 1 and 2 agreed to.
SECTION 3.

I move amendment No. 1:

In page 7, paragraph (b), line 9, after “organisations” to insert “which are approved, authorised or designated for the purposes of this Act”.

The definition of youth work should make some reference to a national register of voluntary youth work organisations maintained by, or on behalf of, the Department. The formula of words I suggest in my amendment would allow it to be incorporated with the concept of registration as applied under the Act, but there should be some register maintained.

I thank Deputy Upton for moving this amendment but I do not think it is strictly necessary. The definition of youth work in the section is a stand alone definition. It was arrived at as a result of exhaustive discussions with all interested parties. The definition of youth work organisations is in any event encompassed in section 2, that is, the definition section, and, accordingly further reference in section 3 is unnecessary.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Section 3 agreed to.
Sections 4 to 7, inclusive, agreed to.
SECTION 8.

I move amendment No. 2:

In page 7, subsection (1) between lines 34 and 35, to insert the following:

"(a) prepare a national youth development plan having due regard to local plans prepared by virtue of Part 3,”.

There is a section which is devoted to looking at local plans but the Bill does not take account of a national plan. There should be an over-arching national plan which would take account of the local plans.

I have requested the National Youth Work Advisory Committee to prepare a five-year national youth development plan and I expect it to be available shortly. The Bill proposes generally that I be advised by the National Youth Work Advisory Committee in matters such as this and I do not see any reason to limit the abilities of the committee in legislation. The national committee should be free to make national proposals on a flexible and "as required" basis; in other words, that the national committee's proposals should not be constrained by the details of any number of local plans, that it is entitled to advise me generally. I expect to have the plan of the national committee by next month and therefore the amendment is unnecessary.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Amendment No. 3 is in the name of Deputy Creed. Amendments Nos. 6 and 7 are related to amendment No. 5 and amendment No. 16 is an alternative to amendment No. 15. Amendments Nos. 4, 5, 6, 7, 10, 15, 16 and 23 are related and may be discussed together. Is that agreed? Agreed.

I move amendment No. 3:

In page 7, subsection (1)(a), line 36, after “services” to insert “in both the Irish and English languages”.

This amendment was tabled on foot of lobbying, which I am sure all members received from various Irish language interest groups, that the Bill be proofed from an Irish language perspective and that, in its implementation, the Department would be obliged to ensure that the provisions of the Bill are expressed in both Irish and English. I ask the Minister of State for his observations on that.

The Minister for Education and Science is committed to implementing Government policy in relation to the Irish language and he will bear this in mind in relation to section 8(1). In areas where the Irish language is the day-to-day working language it is the policy of the VEC to respond in the Irish language and conduct the order of business through Irish.

As regards amendment No. 4, I want to point out that the onus is on a VEC, which has a Gaeltacht area in its remit, to have youth services provided for persons living in Gaeltacht areas. On amendments Nos. 6 and 7, I have made my own proposals which should answer the Deputies' concerns in that regard.

I note that there is a large group of amendments touching on the same subject here in the name of Deputy Creed principally and also Deputy Upton. I will undertake to have another look between now and Report Stage at whether there is a need to insert some reference to the Irish language in the Bill.

I welcome the Minister of State's assurance in that regard and I will withdraw my amendments.

It is important that there is a clear reference to the Irish language in the Bill, but I accept what the Minister of State said and I welcome his comments.

Amendments Nos. 5, 10 and 15 reflect the desire to ensure that particular regard is had to all young people aged between ten and 21, and to those young people who are socially or economically disadvantaged regardless of age. In response to the views of a number of people in the youth work organisations, I feel I must agree that every effort should be made to tackle social exclusion among our young people and I believe this change will help in that effort. The change is inspired by the amendments put forward by Opposition Deputies. What I have proposed will meet their concerns.

The Minister, with the assistance of a more expert draftsperson, is able to come up with the appropriate wording. This amendment takes on board the concerns expressed in my amendment and Deputy Upton's amendment.

The amendments were also substantially inspired by documentation which we received from the National Youth Council and I think the Minister of State's amendment will meet its concerns also. I agree to the Minister of State's amendment.

I also agree to the Minister of State's amendment. It is important that that separation is made. I am quite happy with the Minister of State's amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Amendment No. 4 not moved.

I move amendment No. 5:

In page 8, subsection (3), lines 40 to 42, to delete paragraph (b) and substitute the following:

"(b) that particular regard be had to the youth work requirements of—

(i) persons who have attained the age of 10 years but not 21 years, and

(ii) other young persons who are socially or economically disadvantaged.".

Amendment agreed to.
Amendments No. 6 and 7 not moved.
Section 8, as amended, agreed to.
SECTION 9.

Amendment No. 8 in the name of the Minister. Amendment No. 9 is related. I propose that we discuss amendments Nos. 8 and 9 together by agreement. Is that agreed? Agreed.

I move amendment No. 8:

In page 9, subsection (1)(a)(i), line 38, after “co-ordinating” to insert “its plans, proposals and activities”.

Amendment No. 8 ensures that there is clarity in relation to what the vocational education committees will co-ordinate with approved national youth work organisations, designated local voluntary youth work organisations and authorised organisations within its VEC area. Deputy Creed's amendment, amendment No. 9, provides for the same purpose essentially.

I agree with the Minister of State's amendment.

Amendment agreed to.
Amendment No. 9 not moved.

I move amendment No. 10:

In page 10, subsection (1), lines 5 to 9, to delete paragraph (c) and substitute the following:

"(c) ensure that in the provision of youth work programmes or youth work services, or both, under paragraph (a), particular regard shall be had to the youth work requirements of—

(i) persons who have attained the age of 10 years but not 21 years, and

(ii) other young persons who are socially or economically disadvantaged.".

Amendment agreed to.
Section 9, as amended, agreed to.
Section 10 agreed to.
SECTION 11.

I move amendment No. 11:

In page 11, subsection (1), line 16, after "shall" to insert "subject to the requirements of public service contracting".

This should be "subject to the requirements of public service contracting" as would be the case for any other contract and that should be written into the Bill.

I appreciate the point being made by Deputy Upton. However, vocational education committees are bound by the public service procurement procedures. Accordingly it is not necessary to write that specifically into legislation.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

I move amendment No. 12:

In page 12, subsection (6)(a), line 6, to delete “3” and substitute “5”.

It is not considered necessary or desirable to increase the specified terms to five years as this longer cycle would reduce the momentum of co-operation and co-ordination for proper supervision by the Department of Education and Science. The increase, for another two years, would add additional pressures to the work of the youth work assessor and cause an inordinate delay in the assessor's reports.

Due to the progression of the age cohort on the youth front and the fact that the bulk of the young people would have moved on from the intended catchment group, a five year duration is considered inappropriate and it is my inclination to adhere to the three year duration. However, I would be interested in anything Deputy Creed has to say on the matter.

I cannot find my notes on this matter.

The Deputy's amendment would increase the life span of the youth work plan from three years to five years.

I recall that the reason for the amendment had to do with the timing of local authority elections and that the vocational education committees' term would run in tandem with that of the local authorities. For that reason, in the context of new VEC being established, the intention is that plans would dovetail with the establishment of the VEC in the aftermath of local authority elections. Maybe it is not an overwhelming argument but it appeared, when I read it originally, to have some logic to it. Perhaps the Minister of State would comment on that.

I see the logic in what the Deputy is saying because, as the committee will be aware, there is a fixed five year period in place at present. Nevertheless if one moves from three years to five years, the fact that there is a new election and a new VEC being set up does not necessarily affect something which has been put in place two years previously because one would be just approaching the last year of the implementation of that particular plan, albeit a plan prepared by the previous VEC.

The difficulty in extending it to five years is there would be an assessment once every five years rather than every three years. I know there would be annual monitoring but the assessment would occur only once every five years. That is considered undesirable. It is considered more desirable to assess the plan or what is being done more regularly.

In addition, obviously it would be easier for the person who will be doing that work, namely, the youth work assessor, to assess three years' work rather than a five year work programme. The assessor would get the report done and get it out more quickly.

A fairly compelling argument against the amendment is that in a three year period a certain number of young people will have moved on but in a five year period a great many more people will actually have moved on.

The point I am making has to do with the membership of a VEC being hidebound by a youth work plan over which it had no immediate input previously. It might have been the plan of a previous VEC.

I accept the point the Minister of State makes, that these things will need to be reviewed regularly. The necessity for ongoing review is perhaps something which the Minister of State could consider.

I also take the point against my amendment that a new VEC, with the best intention in the world to commission a youth work plan, may not have it done for a year after it itself becomes established and that that would then result in the plan running into the first year of the next VEC. Having thrashed it out, I can see the better logic of the Minister of State's proposal.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Section 11 agreed to.
Section 12 agreed to.
SECTION 13.

Amendments Nos. 13 and 14, both of which are in the names of Deputies Creed and Upton, may be discussed together by agreement. Is that agreed? Agreed.

I move amendment No. 13:

In page 13, subsection (2), line 3, to delete "third" and substitute "fifth".

This amendment was tabled for the same reason as amendment No. 12. We felt that a plan with a five year term, based on the national development plan's five year term, would make more sense. That is the background of that particular recommendation. The amendments state that the words "third" and "3" should be changed to "fifth" and "5", respectively.

Essentially the argument is the same as that which applied in the case of amendment No. 12. I will give the matter further thought. I see the compelling logic of leaving it as it is but if the Deputies want me to ask my officials to have another look at it, we will certainly do that.

Is it agreed to withdraw the amendment and perhaps the Minister of State will come back to it on Report Stage?

I am quite happy to withdraw it on that basis.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Amendment No. 14 not moved.

I move amendment No. 15:

In page 13, subsection (4), lines 10 to 15, to delete paragraph (a) and substitute the following:

"(a) specify the youth work requirements of its vocational education area and the measures required to meet the requirements, having particular regard to the youth work requirements of—

(i) persons who have attained the age of 10 years but not 21 years, and

(ii) other young persons who are socially or economically disadvantaged,".

Amendment agreed to.
Amendment No. 16 not moved.
Section 13, as amended, agreed to.
Section 14 agreed to.
SECTION 15.

Amendment No. 17 in the name of Deputy Creed. Amendment No. 17 is consequential on amendment No. 19 and therefore amendments Nos. 17 and 19 may be discussed together by agreement. Is that agreed? Agreed.

I move amendment No. 17:

In page 14, line 40, after "as", to insert "subject to the terms of subsection (2),”.

The broad intention of the Bill is that funds will be available to vocational education committees in the case of local provision in accordance with their agreed plan. Where the VEC feels a need to deviate from the plan, it is proper that there should be a process, as outlined in section 11, which will ensure the greatest possible transparency.

Section 15 is intended as a safety mechanism to be used in unforeseen circumstances. If the Minister were bound by the strictures of the proposed amendment, no Minister would have the ability to react quickly to such problems which might arise from time to time and require a speedy intervention. In any event the actions of the Minister are, of course, subject directly to the scrutiny of the Houses of the Oireachtas. Any youth work programme or service which is provided by the Minister would be in accordance with the local requirements and, of course, have regard to the VEC development plan. In other words, there is no need for this elaborate procedure. This is like a fail-safe section. Where a gap is found in a youth work provision in a particular VEC area, for example, and the authorities must move quickly to fill that gap, we feel that it might be better to leave the matter flexible in order that the gap, the inadequate provision or whatever can be dealt with quickly. If a VEC is deviating from the plan itself, there is a procedure laid out in section 11 which involves the use of newspaper advertisements, etc., to ensure transparency. This is what might be described as a provision for an emergency.

I accept what the Minister of State said. However, it goes against the spirit of vocational education committees dealing with these matters themselves, does it not? It gives fairly extensive powers to a Minister, does it not?

It would not really do that. It is not envisaged that this section would come into widespread use. We would envisage that the local youth work committees and the vocational education committees will do their job, particularly now that half their membership will come from the local voluntary youth councils, that they will be advised on a continual basis by the voluntary youth councils, that they will be subject to assessment and that they will be dealing with the Department on an ongoing basis. Where a difficulty arises, where something comes up rather quickly of which a VEC feels it should avail, where there is some service of which the VEC feels it should avail or where there is some programme which the VEC feels should be availed of in its particular area, however, this fail-safe mechanism or back-up mechanism will allow that to be provided.

I will not press the amendment now.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

I move amendment No. 18:

In page 15, paragraph (b), line 2, after “both,” to insert “complementary to the approved development plan”.

The purpose of Deputy Creed's amendment is to ensure that any youth work programme or service organised by the Minister is complementary to the approved VEC development plan. I want to assure Deputy Creed that this is the case and there is no need to enshrine it in legislation. It is self-evident that the Minister's programme must complement the approved VEC development plan, but I have no overwhelming objections to inserting it in the Bill if the committee feels it is absolutely necessary to do so. I can assure the Deputy that it will be complementary but if the Deputy wishes to insert it in the Bill, I have no difficult with that.

It would be useful to insert it because if, in respect of the previous amendment, it does give capacity to a Minister at any stage to take action, this on the other hand ties the Minister in to the youth work plan which has been adopted by the VEC. Therefore, it provides for balance.

Is the Minister of State accepting the amendment?

Amendment agreed to.
Amendment No. 19 not moved.
Section 15, as amended, agreed to.
SECTION 16.

I move amendment No. 20:

In page 15, subsection (2), line 21, after "subsection (1))” to insert “or in respect of any matter in relation to which it is desirable that the Assessor should not act due to his or her prior involvement”.

It is not appropriate that an appeal should be made to the assessor in cases where the assessor would already have considered the matter. That would involve appealing through the same mechanism. It is important that the assessor's role and the appeal are separated, particularly in cases where the assessor would have heard the subject of the appeal in the first instance.

It is not my intention nor would be the intention of any future Minister to engage an individual as a youth work assessor who had grave conflicts of interest in relation to performing his or her functions. In addition, it is the function of the assessor to advise the Minister, not to act in the Minister's place. In the unlikely event that the assessor had a conflict, the Minister would be capable of taking that into account in reaching a decision. The grounds for temporarily removing the assessor from his or her duties would be impossible to specify in advance and would be likely to be hugely controversial in their application.

Certain sections of the Bill, as initiated, are open to the interpretation that the assessor could hear the case in the first place and then hear the appeal. That would be undesirable. While it may mean that there must be an interpretation on each individual case, perhaps that should be taken into account.

To which amendment is Deputy Upton referring? There seems to be some confusion here.

Amendment No. 20.

The amendment proposes an amendment to section 16(2). Section 16(2) provides that the Minister may appoint an officer of the Minister to act in the office of the assessor of youth work during any absence from the State or from duty of the assessor or during any vacancy in the office up to and including the date on which he or she is appointed. The amendment also suggests that the youth work assessor be replaced by somebody else when a case arises where it is desirable that the assessor should not act due to his or her prior involvement in that case. It is not our intention to appoint somebody who would have had prior involvement in cases which had come before the youth work assessor, but in any event the youth work assessor does not stand in the place of the Minister — he or she advises the Minister. If the youth work assessor had any involvement with the case in respect of which he or she is advising the Minister, he or she would be obliged to inform the Minister of that and the Minister would have to take that into account. It is logical to provide for a situation where somebody stands in where there is a vacancy before the youth work assessor is appointed, the youth work assessor is ill or the youth work assessor is unavoidably absent, but it would be extremely difficult to try to work out the circumstances in which one would otherwise replace a youth work assessor who was able, ready and willing to act.

Obviously this is a safeguard against such an event arising. A case is heard by an assessor in the first instance and could be appealed. I am asking if it could be appealed to the same assessor who heard the case in the first instance. The amendment would safeguard against that happening.

The Deputy is correct in saying it could be appealed to the same assessor. I see the point she is making and that she is trying to avoid that situation.

Would the Minister consider revisiting it for Report Stage?

I will consider what the Deputy said for Report Stage.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Amendments Nos. 21 and 22 are related and may be taken together. Is that agreed? Agreed.

I move amendment No. 21:

In page 15, subsection (7), line 45, after "determine." to insert "The annual report and all such published reports shall be in the Irish and English languages.".

The Minister for Education and Science has published five major pieces of legislation during the lifetime of the Government. In none of these is there an explicit requirement that a report has to be published in both languages. The Minister is aware of the importance of making available as much information as possible in the first language as well as English, and endeavours to meet the requirement of Irish speakers on all occasions. It would be unwise to single out reports to be published on youth work matters as unique in that publication in one or other language is mandatory. To do so would give the impression that the Minister is under no obligation to support and promote the use of Irish in other educational fields, when the opposite is the case.

Amendment No. 22 proposes an Irish language translation of "national youth work advisory committee" in the Bill. I am anxious to support the national language at every turn. However, I do not believe this is necessary. I fully expect the final version of the Bill when enacted to be produced in Irish.

These amendments are similar to ones we have already discussed. I accept the Minister's bona fides. A VEC in Cork in which I am involved, a substantial part of the area of which is in a Gaeltacht, is quite proactive in its responsibilities. It is fine to argue against these amendments given the prevailing supportive environment, but there may come a day when the environment is not as supportive. Perhaps the sentiment of these amendments should be included in the Bill to provide for such a time. It is difficult to envisage a time when there will be less support for the language but it is important to flag these issues. The Minister said inclusion of the amendments would not be consistent with previous Acts, but it is important that clear intent is expressed even if it is not given legislative effect.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Section 16 agreed to.
Amendments Nos. 22 and 23 not moved.
Section 17 agreed to.
SECTION 18.

I move amendment No. 24:

In page 17, subsection (5), line 33, to delete "2" and substitute "4".

The IVEA, a very significant representative body, feels strongly that the provision of two members does not do justice to its role and input. I am sure there is no significant argument the Minister can advance against increasing the number to four.

I accept the desirability of giving increased representation to the IVEA in view of the pivotal role of vocational education committees in the Bill. It would, of course, be necessary to increase the overall membership of the national youth work advisory committee to 33 to cater for the addition of the two statutory members and the corresponding two members from the voluntary sector. This quid pro quo for an equal representation of members is a requirement under the Bill. I am therefore accepting in principle what Deputy Creed has suggested and will propose an amendment to that effect on Report Stage. In effect, therefore, I am accepting amendment No. 24.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Amendments Nos. 25 and 36 are related and may be taken together. Is that agreed? Agreed.

I move amendment No. 25:

In page 17, subsection (7), lines 43 to 45, to delete all words from and including "an" in line 43 down to and including "thereof" in line 45 and substitute "that at least 40 per cent of the members of the committee are of each gender,".

The purpose of this amendment is to copperfasten the gender balance. I am anxious that the Bill include such provision so we ensure that at least 40% of the committee are of each gender, the recommended figure.

It would be inappropriate and perhaps even inadvisable to accept this amendment. The current arrangement offers a sufficient degree of flexibility on this issue, allowing for a periodic policy review. The Government's long standing policy on the promotion of gender equality across the public service has proved a success and I expect this success can be built upon. Gender awareness and equality are vital in the area of youth work where there is an opportunity to address the issue at a fundamental level. I do not see a need to enshrine the principle in legislation in a rigid numerical formula which would not allow for further improvements.

I thought our policy was to have a stated level of 40%. If that policy is not adhered to, the figure could easily be allowed slip below that for either gender. We must be proactive in ensuring the 40% level is recognised, adhered to and included in the Bill.

Deputy Upton is correct in saying it is Government policy to have a figure of at least 40%, but that is under constant review and could change. Therefore, we do not think we should include such provision in the Bill. We want flexibility to increase the figure if necessary. If the amendment is included, and Government policy is changed, then the provisions of the Bill will be restricted.

What increase is planned by the Minister?

The figure could increase to 50%.

I would certainly welcome that.

The Minister is not doing too well in terms of his own entourage, which shows a figure of 33%.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Section 18 agreed to.
SECTION 19.

I move amendment No. 26:

In page 18, subsection (2), line 29, to delete "Minister" and substitute "youth work committee".

Amendment agreed to.

Amendment No. 27 is in the name of the Minister. Amendment No. 29 is consequential and amendment No. 28 is an alternative. If amendment No. 27 is agreed, amendment No. 28 cannot be moved. All amendments may be discussed together by agreement. Is that agreed? Agreed.

I move amendment No. 27:

In page 18, between lines 30 and 31, to insert the following subsections:

"(3) The youth work committee shall, in respect of the notification of the decision referred to in subsection (2), consider the decision and the reasons for it and notwithstanding such decision and reasons may, by resolution, decide to submit the recommendation referred to in subsection (2) to the vocational education committee with a request that the recommendation be reconsidered.

(4) The vocational education committee shall reconsider a recommendation submitted to it in accordance with subsection (3), and where a recommendation has been so reconsidered and the vocational education committee decides by resolution not to implement it, it shall, as soon as may be, notify the youth work committee and the Minister in writing of, and state the reasons for, its decision.”.

This provides that where a VEC decides not to implement a recommendation made by the youth work committee it must notify the committee in writing of its decision and the reasons therefor. It also provides that the youth work committee will consider the decision of the VEC. Where the youth work committee re-endorses its original recommendation and it is again rejected by the VEC, the VEC will then notify the Minister and the youth work committee in writing of its decision and the reasons therefor. This is directly in line with Deputy Creed's amendment.

I will withdraw my amendment in favour of the Ministers, which has the same effect.

Amendment agreed to.
Amendment No. 28 not moved.

I move amendment No. 29:

In page 18, subsection (3), line 32, to delete "(2)" and substitute "(4)".

Amendment agreed to.

Amendment No. 30 is in the name of the Minister. Amendment No. 31 is an alternative and both may be discussed together by agreement. If amendment No. 30 is agreed to, amendment No. 31 cannot be moved. Is that agreed? Agreed.

I move amendment No. 30:

In page 18, lines 44 to 47, to delete subsection (5) and substitute the following:

"(7) A youth work committee shall—

(a) appoint to act as chairperson a person appointed to the committee under section 20(2)(a), and

(b) appoint any other member of the committee to act as vice-chairperson to perform the functions of the chairperson in the absence of the chairperson.”.

This amendment will provide that the chairperson of a youth work committee will be a person appointed to that committee by the VEC. This will enhance the capacity of the youth work committee to ensure a better understanding of the VEC, its advice, proposals and recommendations. It will also ensure greater rapport between the VEC and the youth work committee. I hope these proposals are sufficient to satisfy the wishes of Deputy Creed as expressed in amendment No. 31.

I will withdraw my amendment.

Amendment agreed to.
Amendment No. 31 not moved.
Section 19, as amended, agreed to.
SECTION 20.

Amendments Nos. 32, 33, 34 and 35 are related and may be discussed together. Is that agreed? Agreed.

I move amendment No. 32:

In page 19, subsection (1), line 15, to delete "12" and substitute "16".

This amendment reflects the desire to include representation on the youth work committees of all the relevant interested parties at local level. These changes will provide for representation from the Department of Social, Community and Family Affairs and the Department of Tourism, Sport and Recreation. They should allow for more comprehensive representation at local level, including local membership representation. In order to achieve this, the minimum number of members will have to be increased from 12 to 16 as a corresponding two extra places will be given to the voluntary sector. It is also desirable that membership of the youth work committee should reflect the place of full-time employment or residency within the VEC area.

What are the consequences of this in terms of amendment No. 35?

I understand it does not cover the point raised in amendment No. 35. In relation to that amendment it is desirable to point out that a VEC is at liberty to appoint its own representatives to youth work committees and there is no need to incorporate the requirement in legislation. The youth work committee can have a membership of up to 20, and it may be assumed that Gaeltacht areas will be represented as required by VEC representatives and local Irish language youth work organisations on the youth work committee and the local voluntary youth council, respectively. I have no compelling objection to amendment No. 35 and will consider it between now and Report Stage.

Amendment agreed to.

I move amendment No. 33:

In page 19, subsection (2)(b), line 22, after “in” to insert “or whose principal or sole place of full-time employment is within”.

Amendment agreed to.

I move amendment No. 34:

In page 19, subsection (2)(b), between lines 23 and 24, to insert the following:

"(i) the Minister for Social, Community and Family Affairs,

(ii) the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation,".

Amendment agreed to.
Amendments Nos. 35 and 36 not moved.
Section 20, as amended, agreed to.
Section 21 agreed to.
SECTION 22.

I move amendment No. 37:

In page 20, lines 31 to 38, to delete subsection (2).

I am asking that this section be deleted because, if we persist with a quarter staff membership, we may have voluntary youth councils without full voluntary membership. This puts a huge burden on voluntary people as representatives. We are removing the right of the staff to be present as representatives in the absence of volunteers. It is difficult to get a complement of volunteers for many organisations and we are forcing a situation whereby three-quarters of the group has to be made up of volunteers through the 25% quota in terms of staff. It would be more appropriate to allow each group choose their own representatives rather than insisting on a proportion of staff and volunteers.

The amendment seeks to open membership of voluntary youth work committees to a wider range or full-time employees of voluntary youth work organisations. It is imperative that we use every means at our disposal to protect and promote the importance of the volunteer at the heart of youth work. This has long been a policy of successive Governments in relation to youth work and was contained in the Youth Work Act, 1997. This measure has the full support of the vast majority of those involved in youth work.

I fully agree with what the Minister has said and I fully support the role of volunteers and have the greatest regard for the time and effort the put into providing many very good services, particularly for our youth. I am afraid the effect of the section may be that in some small organisations there will not be enough volunteers leading to a distorted group. Leaving it open ended would be much easier to handle and manage.

To be fair, a shortage of volunteers has nothing to do with the Bill.

That is true, but it might be more difficult to find——

To be fair we should deal with the Bill.

What is the reason for not allowing it to be open ended in terms of staff and volunteers?

The youth work sector is based largely on volunteerism. Other countries have taken the statutory route, but we are very committed to the notion of volunteerism and want to emphasise that in the new structures we are putting in place. To reflect that policy and attitude, and to ensure volunteerism continues to take centre stage, we have provided that three-quarters of membership should be volunteers. Deputy Upton said this might give rise to difficulties in certain cases. It might be appropriate to provide flexibility for local youth work committees if such a difficulty arises, so we will examine the matter.

Is there agreement to examine it for Report Stage?

Yes, we will examine the matter.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

I move amendment No. 38:

In page 21, subsection (7), lines 34 and 35, after "community" to insert "and within ethnic groups represented in the functional area of the committee".

This is to ensure all ethnic groups are adequately represented.

It is intended that the national youth work advisory committee will develop guidelines with regard to the needs of all minority groups in youth work matters. As the Travelling community received a specific mention in relation to representation on voluntary youth councils in the Youth Work Act, 1997, I do not propose removing that reference. My firm intention is that all socially excluded young people will benefit from the provisions in the Bill.

There is a difficulty in terms of defining what is meant by ethnic groups. I have no difficulty in principle including a reference to ethnic groups, and we will examine it for Report Stage, but we may have to consider a definition in that regard.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

I move amendment No. 39:

In page 21, between lines 35 and 36, to insert the following subsection:

"(8) In issuing directions under subsection (5), a vocational education committee which functions in a Gaeltacht area, shall have regard to the desirability of ensuring that persons engaged in the provision of youth work programmes or youth work services for young persons in the Irish language in the said Gaeltacht are represented on Voluntary Youth Councils.”.

This is similar to the issues we discussed concerning Irish. It concerns the composition of the voluntary youth council and persons providing youth services in Gaeltacht areas.

In line with what I said about similar amendments, we are prepared to examine for Report Stage the question of references to Irish and people from Gaeltacht areas in general.

I will withdraw the amendment on the basis the Minister might examine it for Report Stage.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Section 22 agreed to.
Section 23 agreed to.
SECTION 24.

Amendment No. 40 is in the name of the Minister. Amendment No. 42 is consequential and amendment No. 41 is an alternative to amendments Nos. 40 and 42. These amendments may be discussed together. Is that agreed? Agreed.

I move amendment No. 40:

In page 22, subsection (1), line 16, to delete "The" and substitute "Subject to subsection (2), the".

I am proposing to name the National Youth Council of Ireland as the first prescribed national representative youth work organisation for a period of three years and to allow for further prescription thereafter. This is in line with a proposal by Deputy Creed. It recognises the significant work done by the NYCI over the past couple of decades.

On that basis I will not be pressing amendment No. 41. It was a glaring omission in the Bill on publication. Perhaps the delay between Second Stage and Committee Stage has facilitated the prescription of the NYCI in the Bill. The work done by it has to be recognised in such a tangible manner, and I have no difficulty with the review.

Amendment agreed to.
Amendment No. 41 not moved.

I move amendment No. 42:

In page 22, lines 21 to 23, to delete subsection (2) and substitute the following:

"(2) The body known as the National Youth Council of Ireland is deemed to be prescribed as the first Prescribed National Representative Youth Work Organisation for the period of 3 years after the commencement of this provision.

(3) In prescribing an organisation for the purposes of subsection (1), the Minister shall specify—

(a) a period of not more than 3 years during which the organisation shall be the Prescribed National Representative Youth Work Organisation, and

(b) the date from which the organisation shall be prescribed,

and any organisation so prescribed for a specified period may be prescribed as the Prescribed National Representative Youth Work Organisation in respect of any subsequent period or periods in accordance with this section.".

Amendment agreed to.
Section 24, as amended, agreed to.
SECTION 25.

Amendments Nos. 43, 44 and 45 are related and may be taken together. Is that agreed? Agreed.

I move amendment No. 43:

In page 22, subsection (1), line 24, after "in writing," to insert "in accordance with criteria determined by the Advisory Committee with the consent of the Minister,".

It is important that the criteria are agreed in accordance with the criteria determined by the advisory committee and that that committee should have a role in determining representation and authorisation of different organisations.

The amendment is strictly speaking unnecessary. The national youth work advisory committee does not have a function in advising the Minister on the authorisation of organisations under section 17. In any event the authorisation of a voluntary organisation should be a role reserved for the Minister. The purpose of authorisation is to provide for the funding of such ancillary services as may be required from time to time for the efficient and effective running of national youth work policy. The extent or nature of such services cannot be anticipated precisely in guidelines, and it is better to allow a freer hand in the full knowledge that all the actions of the Minister are accountable to the Houses of the Oireachtas.

Regarding amendment No. 44, under section 17 the national youth work advisory committee has a role in advising the Minister on the criteria to be applied in the approval of national youth work organisation. This is right and proper and I see no circumstances in which the Minister would not see fit to follow such advice. However, it is the nature of advice to a Minister that circumstances may arise when the advice might not be approved. This would happen very rarely and a good reason would be necessary. This is fundamental to good administrative practice and law. Accordingly, it is unwise to bind the hands of the Minister. Equally, there is sufficient control in the designation of local voluntary youth work organisations and in terms of ensuring national youth work advisory committee guidelines are observed.

I accept what the Minister has said.

Has the Minister's Department received the development plan from the advisory committee?

We expect it within the next few weeks.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Section 25 agreed to.
Amendment No. 44 not moved.
Sections 26 to 28, inclusive, agreed to.
Amendment No. 45 not moved.
Sections 29 to 34, inclusive, agreed to.
SECTION 35.

I move amendment No. 46:

In page 26, subsection (2), line 35, after "inform" to insert "the Assessor of Youth Work and".

This provides that the assessor of youth work as well as the VEC will be informed of a situation whereby the Minister might withdraw or reduce the amount of a grant.

Amendment agreed to.

I move amendment No. 47:

In page 26, subsection (4), line 46, to delete "(2)" and substitute "(3)".

The purpose of this amendment is to correct a reference to subsection (3). It is purely technical in nature and provides for accurate cross-referencing.

Amendment agreed to.

Amendment No. 48 is in the name of the Minister. Amendment No. 49 is consequential and both amendments may be taken together. Is that agreed? Agreed.

I move amendment No. 48:

In page 26, subsection (4), line 46, to delete "recommendations" and substitute "a report".

I propose substituting the word "report" for "recommendation" in section 35(4) and (5). I am advised that it is more appropriate for a report than a recommendation to be made to the Minister by the assessor of youth work.

There is a significant difference between a recommendation and a report. If the assessor of youth work recommends something, it almost behoves the Minister to respond whereas "report" is more anodyne. We have only recently seen these amendments and I am not quite sure of their significance.

This amendment has very recently come to my attention. I am told it is based on legal advice from the Department and I intend inquiring further about it.

Will the Minister withdraw it and return to it on Report Stage?

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Amendment No. 49 not moved.
Section 35, as amended, agreed to.
Sections 36 and 37 agreed to.
Schedule agreed to.
Title agreed to.
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