: Amendments Nos. 30 to 33, inclusive, are related and may be discussed together.
SECTION 40.
: I move amendment No. 30:
In page 28, subsection (2), line 25, after "service", to insert "(including conditions in relation to tenure of office)".
Since the decision to establish the Authority was first announced in 1991, there have been substantial consultations with staff interests. These consultations, in which I have been involved, focus mainly on the statutory terms under which ANSO staff were transferred to the company. The trade unions representing ANSO staff expressed concern about the terms under which it was initially proposed that ANSO staff would transfer to the new company. In particular, they were concerned to ensure that there should be no worsening in their conditions of service or security of tenure. A published text of section 42 of the Bill goes a long way to meet the concerns expressed by the trade unions. However, following the publication of the Bill, the staff were still concerned at the lack of specific mention of security of tenure.
Although I am satisfied that security of tenure is covered in the terms and conditions of service, I have no difficulty about making it explicit. I have taken into account the contributions by various Deputies on Second Stage in the Dáil. Based on that we have included this amendment, the purpose of which is to make it clear that security of tenure is specifically covered. All these amendments dispose of the concerns that ANSO staff had about the terms for the transfer arrangements. I trust that they are to the satisfaction of the committee and that we can enshrine them in the Bill.
(Limerick East): We expressed concern on Second Stage because of the Minister’s strong arguments that the new organisation would comply with commercial rather than any other standards and that as part of the package the staff would not have security of tenure. We all know that one of the code words now for bringing in redundancy packages is “commerciality” and “commercial viability”.
Will the Minister clarify if he regards the present complement of 580 employees in ANSO as sufficient to carry out the duties of the new aviation Authority or does he think that there are staff surplus to need? If he is talking about a company which complies with the best commercial standards, does he have, somewhere in the back of his mind, a notion that part of the more commercial approach would be the shedding of staff? That was the fear expressed on Second Stage and why I put down amendment No. 32.
The difficulty with section 40 (2) is that the text of the subsection introduces the doubt because while on the one hand it seems to confer the same conditions of service on the staff of the new company as they had when they were employed by ANSO, on the other hand it contains the curious phrase which refers to employees, "while in the service of the company". The inclusion of the phrase "while in the service of the company" introduces the doubt that some other conditions will apply for people who are no longer in the service of the company.
If staff were simply being made redundant and given some kind of package, there would not be much point in putting in the phrase "while in the service of the company". However, if the Minister was seeking power to redeploy staff to other areas of the Civil Service, the phrase "while in the service of the company" would make sense. While in the service of the company they would not have less beneficial conditions, but if they were transferred to the Department of Agriculture they might. That is why there is such a doubt. The way it is drafted has introduced the doubt. I wonder why that phrase is needed and to what extent it is now negatived by the two amendments proposed by the Minister which define "service" as including conditions in relation to tenure of office.
I understand that the 580 people are at present enjoying permanent and pensionable Civil Service positions. Is the Minister telling us that these people, after vesting day, will still enjoy permanent and pensionable positions as employees of the Irish Aviation Authority and will be allowed to work out the remainder of their career there without being transferred to other units of the Civil Service or having arrangements negotiated with their staff associations or unions in respect of redundancy foisted on them? That is the reason I put down my amendment.
My amendment is a form of words which are included in other legislation of a similar nature and includes the terms of employment as well as the conditions of pay. The terms of employment in the Civil Service make people permanent and pensionable provided they carry out their work. We all know how difficult it is to dismiss a civil servant, it is a Cabinet decision. The specific name has to be brought up and the sponsoring Minister has to make the submission. That is very strong security of tenure.
What is the position now? While the Minister's amendments are welcome and meet many of the arguments we made on Second Stage, doubt in section 40 (2) still exists, introduced through the form of words "while in the service of the company". I ask the Minister to explain that and justify its inclusion in the text.
: If I was to give a short answer to all the questions raised by Deputy Noonan, my answer would be "no". I will elaborate a little on that. The first question was if I am satisfied that 580 staff are sufficient in the company or if we have surplus staff. I am not satisfied that we have enough staff in the company and we certainly do not have surplus staff.
When the legislation is passed and the Authority has been formed it will be necessary to keep a certain cadre of high quality technical staff to advise the Minister on aviation matters. At present, and throughout the remainder of this year, the Civil Service Commission will recruit people by competition for ANSO and ultimately the Authority. We expect that in 1994 a similar number of people, 20 to 30 this year and perhaps 20 to 30 next year, will be recruited. Account will also have to be taken of the numbers who will remain in the Department.
Nobody will be disadvantaged. Everyone has permanent and pensionable posts which they will retain. No one will suffer a reduction in salary, pension rights, superannuation or anything like that; everything will be protected as it stands as they go into the new company. The words "while in the service of the company" are taken directly from the legislation dealing with Coillte, the Forestry Act, 1988, it has no sinister connotations. It is specifically enshrined and was in the Coillte legislation to show that there is a difference bwetween Civil Service employment and semi-State commercial employment. The only reason it is inserted is to be specific. It has no connotations whatever, and refers to staff employment by the company.
(Limerick East): Has the Minsiter of State got the agreement of the staff associations to these amendments?
: Yes. As a result of all the negotiations which we had, the discussions between management and the unions, those in which I took part and the new amendments we have put forward, the staff are very happy.
(Limerick East): In the light of the Minister’s guarantees I will accept his amendments.
Amendment agreed to.
: I move amendment No. 31:
In page 28, subsection (2), line 26, after "service", to insert "(including conditions in relation to tenure of office)".
Amendment agreed to.
Amendment No. 32 not moved.
Section 40, as amended, agreed to.