Select Committee on Enterprise and Economic Strategy debate -
Thursday, 14 Sep 1995

SECTION 69.

Mr. Molloy

I move amendment No. a32p.:

In page 53, subsection (2), line 27, after "section 58 (4)" to insert "such person shall have the option of retiring on reaching 60 years of age".

This amendment would have the effect of extending the right to retire to those currently employed as pilots on reaching the age of 60. The Bill gives the right to newly appointed pilots to retire at 60 and it is only fair and just that pilots currently employed by the harbour authorities should also be given this option, as a right if they wish to exercise it, rather than having to seek the permission of the port authority for early retirement. Their pensions should be based on qualifying service without the necessity of having to obtain the approval of the port company. If the Minister agrees that newly appointed pilots of harbour companies should have the right to retire at 60, would he not consider it fair and just to extend the same facility to serving pilots if they wish to exercise it, providing there are adequate pension arrangements based on their qualifying service?

Mr. M. Smith

I support Deputy Molloy's amendment. The case he made is one for what most of us would consider minimum fair play; if new entrants can retire at 60 that option should be available for those currently in employment.

Mr. B. Fitzgerald

It is unfair if someone is forced into retirement at age 60, which is what is provided for in this section. If the licence is not granted or renewed for a person who has reached 60, effectively he must retire. Unless there is adequate compensation by way of pension or otherwise, this is grossly unfair to the individual. No-one should be forced to retire at 60 without such compensation but it appears the pilots will not have it.

I ask the Minister to reconsider that provision to take into account the conditions of people currently employed. Agreements can be drawn up for new employees but this is unfair to existing staff. It might be argued that pilots are not forced to retire but if they do not have a licence thay have no other option. The section is disadvantageous to those currently coming up to 60 years of age who have made a great contribution over the years. Will the Minister take our views into account before Report Stage in order to protect those currently employed?

Mr. Gilmore

The amendment proposed by Deputy Molloy is not necessary but before discussing it I will deal with Deputy Fitzgerald's comments. Section 69 (2) provides that pre-vesting day licensed pilots — that is the existing pilots — will be entitled to continue to act as pilots until they reach whatever retirement age applied to them prior to the coming into operation of this Bill. The obligation to retire at 60 will therefore not apply to existing pilots; we are solely concerned with newly-engaged pilots. However, pre-vesting day licensed pilots will be entitled to resign before reaching normal retirement age and apply for a preserved pension, providing the conditions under which they were licensed prior to the vesting day provide for this. If the retirement age provided in the employment conditions of an existing pilot is higher than 60, he is not prevented from retiring at an earlier date than is provided in their employment. There are consequences for pension entitlements but that is a matter for existing pension schemes.

Mr. Molloy

When Oireachtas Members sought to make changes in their pension schemes these options were provided; when the qualifying period was reduced, Members could opt for one or the other. In this case a similar principle should apply to currently employed pilots. Where the terms of employment in the future will provide that pilots retire at 60, the pension arrangements will be adjusted accordingly. Based on qualifying service, current pilots should be given the option of retiring at 60 in an improved situation.

Mr. Gilmore

I think there are two matters here. The first is the retirement age. The Bill provides that new pilots will be required to retire at 60. Clearly that requirement will be reflected in the pension arrangements made for them and where there are contributory pensions, in the levels of contributions paid to the pension scheme. In the case of existing pilots there is nothing to prevent a pilot retiring early. The difficulty arises in relation to the pension entitlement but that is a matter for amendment of the respective schemes. Perhaps it could be addressed in the review of port pension schemes I mentioned earlier but it is not a matter for the legislation, it is for negiotiation between the pilots and the pilotage authority on the pension schemes and funds which exist for them.

Mr. Molloy

Will the Minister ensure this matter is considered in future reviews? If he does that I will withdraw the amendment.

Mr. Gilmore

I can give the assurance that early retirement arrangements can be examined but that will be done without any pre-commitment because, as Deputy Molloy is aware, pension provision for early retirement can be extremely expensive, both for the pension fund and, where the pension is contributory, for the members of the pension scheme. It is a complex area.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Section 69 agreed to.

Sections 70 and 71 agreed to.