This section deals with penalties. Perhaps the Minister can briefly outline what will happen here. It is always a subjective matter whether penalties are adequate. One can make any case but a person found guilty under this Act shall be liable to a wide range of penalties, including imprisonment.
SECTION 35.
Question proposed: "That section 35 stand part of the Bill".
He can be imprisoned for three years.
Leaving aside section 36, with which we deal next and which updates certain Victorian laws, only three offences are provided for under the Bill. First is the unauthorised disclosure of information obtained under the Act or by being present at a private sitting of the committee or the commission — this is the privacy element we discussed; second is the giving of false evidence, which is akin to perjury; and third is failing to comply with the lawful instruction of a committee or committees in investigations, which is akin to contempt of court. These underlie the powers of the committee and the commission to investigate.
Has this section nothing to do with penalties imposed on the person who has been found in breach of the legislation?
No.
This relates to offences committed while the committee or commission of inquiry is meeting; unauthorised leaking, given false evidence or not following lawful instructions.
There are no criminal sanctions for breaches of the Act. In the case of a civil servant, it is made a condition of their terms of employment that they comply with the Bill and they are subject to the normal disciplinary hearings and disciplinary code, including possible sacking under the Civil Service rules. There are different kinds of disciplinary procedures for people in breach of the legislation. This only applies to people who fail to comply with the directions of a committee or commission, commit perjury or——
Would a Member of the House who gives false evidence before the committee fall within the ambit of this section?
Members of the House are subject to the normal rigours of the law in terms of anything they do. If a person breaks the speed limit, he or she is subject to the normal rigours of the law.
If a Member of a select committee leaked or made an unauthorised disclosure of information he learned before the committee or if a Member gave false evidence against another Member, would they be subject to the rigours of this section?
That is right.
Breaches of the guidelines and provisions of the Bill are not subject to these penalties, is that correct?
If somebody breaches the guidelines in the Bill, it is up to the committee to decide on disciplinary action. We had a lengthy discussion on that this morning. Anyone, including a Member, who commits one of the three criminal offences created by the Bill will be open to prosecution and penalties will follow.
Would that also apply to the press?
It would.
And the media in general?
Anybody, be they the media or an ordinary citizen, who commits an offence under this Bill will be subject to the rigours of the law.
Does that apply if they say "a spokesperson said"?
Somebody has to commit an offence under the Bill. If somebody commits and is convicted of such an offence, these penalties apply. If somebody is not convicted of an offence, it does not arise.
What is the position of the media because the matter would have been published?
We had a lengthy discussion the last day about the whole area of disclosure. I said, in light of that discussion, that I would look at it before Report Stage to see what changes might be appropriate. As it stands, if anybody is guilty of unauthorised disclosure of information under the Act, fails to comply with the lawful instruction of a committee or commission or commits perjury and is charged and convicted the appropriate penalties under this section follow.
May I, if I am in order, ask about a leak to the media? In a High Court case it was alleged that information was given to the person who refused to disclose the identify of the informant. What is the position if that occurs? This could be extremely damaging to a Member.
I do not want to discuss hypothetical situations. If a person is convicted of an offence the penalties apply. That is all the section says.
We will agree to the section but we reserve the right to table amendments on Report Stage.
The Minister has given that assurance.
Question put and agreed to.