SELECT COMMITTEE ON JUSTICE, EQUALITY, DEFENCE AND WOMEN’S RIGHTS debate -
Wednesday, 10 Dec 2003

Vol. 1 No. 26

United Nations Service: Motion.

Minister for Defence (Mr. M. Smith)

I move:

That Dáil Éireann approves a report by the Minister for Defence pursuant to section 4 of the Defence (Amendment) Act 1993, which was laid before the Dáil on 4 November 2003.

I had a prepared speech on the last occasion and I will give a brief synopsis of it to save time. I am not sure how the committee wants to proceed given the limited time available, as I understand a vote will be called in the Da?il at 7 p.m. I understand that, as well as myself, one or two members have a difficulty with returning to the meeting immediately after that vote. I could resume after the 8.30 p.m. vote if that is suitable, or does the Chairman want to try to conclude in the time available before the vote?

Chairman

Is it agreed that we incorporate the Minister's——

Mr. P. Power

We should try to conclude as quickly as possible.

Chairman

That is agreed.

Mr. M. Smith

In that case I will give the shortest possible synopsis to ensure that colleagues will have at least the same time as I have to ask questions, and I will deal with them as quickly as I can.

Chairman

Is it agreed that we incorporate the text of the Minister's document in the report? Agreed?

Mr. M. Smith

First, I extend condolences to the fianceé and family of Sergeant Derek Mooney who lost his life tragically in Liberia in a road accident.

There were a number of missions during 2002, in East Timor, Kosovo and a variety of other areas. Taking account of the mission in Liberia, in excess of 800 troops will serve in missions in different parts of the world. We wish all the soldiers who are in Liberia and those who are about to leave for that country a safe tour of duty and a safe return.

United Nations activities form an important part of our foreign policy. They have enabled our Defence Forces to gain immeasurable experience and we have to be able to contribute to an evolving peace process in many different places. Our soldiers have also gained considerable acclaim for their humanitarian activities. As we depend more on regional organisations within the EU, the request from the UN to participate in those kinds of missions are becoming more regular. We are satisfied that we have the necessary personnel, resources and commitment from Government and the support of the people of Ireland for these missions. We have also been quite successful in solving some of the financial problems we had with the EU, with the amount involved now being down to an acceptable level, if one can say that. Generally speaking, each year we have been able to taper it downwards as much as possible.

I will take brief questions from members. I am anxious to satisfy the committee about the work members of the Defence Forces do, the justification for it, the support of people for it and the resources we are prepared to put into it.

Chairman

I am sure members of the committee would like to extend condolences to the Mooney family on the tragic loss of Sergeant Derek Mooney, who was in Liberia for only one week.

I invite members to put questions to the Minister.

Mr. McGinley

I would like to be associated with the sympathy extended to relations and friends of the late Sergeant Derek Mooney. I had the privilege of attending his funeral, with the Minister, last Tuesday week and it was a sad occasion. I record our indebtedness to the Defence Forces for what they do for Ireland on the international stage. There are two groups of people who have left our shores, Defence Forces and missionaries, and they brought much respect to Ireland internationally on the world stage. The way our missionaries and Defence Forces have conducted themselves and their contributions by way of peacekeeping and religion helped us toget a place on the Security Council a few years ago.

The Minister said that 800 troops will serve in missions abroad when the Liberian contingent is complete.

Mr. M. Smith

At the end of next week.

Mr. McGinley

I understand that number is close to our maximum commitment to the United Nations of 850 troops. If we were asked to send troops to Iraq, would the Govenrment be willing to consider such a request? I understand there is a resolution by the United States before the Security Council to the effect that such participation should be broadened. If that resolution receives a mandate from the Security Council of the United Nations, would we be willing to let our troops serve there?

Mr. M. Smith

The total number of troops who will be serving abroad at the end of next week when the last members of that contingent reach Liberia will be 845, which is just five short of our UNSAS commitment. For a country of our size and given the size of our Defence Forces, that represents a significant contribution and close to the maximum possible. It must be borne in mind that when 845 members of the Defence Forces are participating abroad, the exact same number are in training. Therefore, that accounts for about 2,500 members counting the members who are serving overseas and those who are preparing to do so. Members serve a six month tour of duty and are replaced by others in training and preparation.

As far as Iraq is concerned, we await a determination by the United Nations, but the Deputy can take it for granted that we have virtually exhausted our capacity in terms of the resources available to us. As to whether we have observers or a number of people with specialties who might be required, we are at our limit and I would not like to get into the business of further commitments at present.

Mr. McGinley

With regard to peacekeeping and peacemaking, the role of our troops serving in Liberia has been slightly changed - they are peacemakers or peace enforcers. That changes the complexity of the mission. Are there concerns in that regard? The situation there is very volatile. I watched the news before I came to the meeting and I saw people running around armed out there. Is there concern for our troops serving there?

Mr. M. Smith

It is a Chapter VII commitment, which involves the type of scenario the Deputy outlined. Our business is, first and foremost, to try to make sure that the reconnaissance carried out prior to any mission being engaged in is done by experts in the Defence Forces who then recommend to the Government whether we should participate, and that is followed by a motion and support for it in the Dáil. There is the question of the resources available to the Defence Forces.

The safety of our troops is a paramount consideration for us. They are very well equipped but, as I have said, there are special risks attached to the Liberian mission. We are facing up to those both in terms of the provisions to meet the health requirements and physical requirements such as artillery support and other facilities necessary to protect our troops. In the first instance, a number of the armed Ranger wing, the most highly trained and highly skilled specialists we have, will be out there fronting for the first three months. Members can be assured that everything possible is being done to assure the safety of our troops. However, members should bear in mind that missions involve risks. If the only place the Irish people want our soldiers to go is where they will be 100% safe and where there will be no threat to them, it would be neither peacekeeping or peacemaking. Such missions involve risks. Their job and training, coupled with the resources made available by the Government, combine to ensure that they will be ahead of the posse for every conceivable type of problem. We cannot give absolute guarantees, however.

Mr. P. Power

I want to be associated with the condolences that were offered earlier. I thank the Minister for his report. For many years, peacekeeping has been a key element of our defence and foreign policy and has been applauded as such throughout the world, especially at the UN. What are the financial implications of that peacekeeping, however? Do we spend a higher proportion on peacekeeping than other countries? Is it a significant part of the Minister's overall annual budget? Could it be considered to be a disproportionate amount of the financial resources available to the Minister?

Mr. M. Smith

Quite a number of missions are funded in part by the United Nations, while we fund others completely. Increasingly in future we will have to provide the funding from our own resources. Over the past 40 years, Ireland has probably been the fourth or fifth highest contributor of personnel to the United Nations. That indicates that the Deputy is correct in saying the amount is disproportionate in that sense. To put it another way, however, for the morale of the Defence Forces and the work they have done in so many places, we consider the investment to be a worthwhile part of our national and foreign policy. The people want us to continue undertaking peacekeeping and humanitarian tasks.

Chairman

I am aware that Deputy Ó Fearghaíl had a question. Perhaps he will give it to the Minister's officials so that the committee will receive a written reply at a later stage. The division bells are ringing.

I ask the committee to agree the draft report and the Minister's speech. Is that agreed? Agreed.

I thank the Minister and his officials for attending today's meeting. We look forward to our next meeting with the Minister, which will probably be to discuss the Estimates.