Amendment No. 22. Amendments Nos. 23 and 25 are related. It is proposed that amendments Nos. 22, 23 and 25 be taken together. Is that agreed? Agreed.
SECTION 15.
I move amendment No. 22:
In page 7, subsection (1), line 8, to delete "shall commit the offence of riot" and substitute "shall be guilty of the offence of riot".
I am going to sound like a Minister now. My legal advisers advised me that the appropriate language was not used and that it should read "shall be guilty of the offence of riot" rather than "shall commit the offence of riot". It is a technical amendment and I do not wish to make an issue of it but my legal advisers felt very strongly about the wording used. I will accept whatever is acceptable to the Minister in this regard.
I am prepared to accept amendments Nos. 22, 23 and 25.
Amendment agreed to.
Amendment No. 22a. Amendment No. 25a is related and it is proposed, subject to agreement to discuss amendment Nos. 22a and 25a together.
I move amendment No. 22a:
In page 7, between lines 19 and 20, to insert the following subsection:
"(5) A person shall be guilty of an offence of riot only if the person intends to use or threaten to use violence or is aware that his conduct may be violent or threaten violence or provoke the commission of a criminal offence.".
Yesterday in Croke Park when I was perched high in the Cusack Stand looking down on all the excitement, I knew something was going on — I am sorry A Chathaoirleach for mentioning it, I know how you feel, it was a bad day for Cork——
A great day for Ireland.
There appeared to be a riot when people were let in through the gates. I think Deputy Mitchell is trying to distinguish between what can appear to be an outbreak of violence, where it is likely to happen, violence is threatened or people are aware that their conduct will lead to violence and, for that reason, he wants to insert the idea of a riot. I think that is reasonable. There can be all kinds of escapades, with a crowd going out of control but if there is no intent to violence it is less serious whereas if you have a riot where violence or attacks on bystanders are threatened it is necessary to make the idea of a riot an offence as distinct from abolishing the common law principle of riot in section 4. We should keep the offence of riot if violence is threatened.
As the committee will appreciate, the three offences at issue, riot, violent disorder and affray are complex, as indeed is the mental element necessary for each offence. On the one hand there is an argument that no specific provision need be made in relation to the mental element and that it would be sufficient to allow the general criminal law rules in relation to mental element to suffice. Different considerations apply between the nature of riot and violent disorder, in particular the fact that for a person to be guilty of riot there must be an actual use of unlawful violence, whereas in the case of violent disorder and riot either the use and the threat of violence is sufficient for the offence to be committed. Again the specific elements of affray and violent disorder differ. While I do not believe that the absence of specific definitions for the mental element for riot and affray would be likely to cause difficulties in practice, nevertheless in all the circumstances I am persuaded that there would be some merit in having a specific definition in relation to the mental element along the lines proposed by the Deputy.
I would prefer if Deputy Browne deferred the amendment to allow time for my officials and me to give further consideration to the elements of the amendment and that we would have an opportunity to discuss it in detail with the draughtsman. If the Deputy was prepared to withdraw the amendment it would prove possible to meet the concerns on Report Stage. I am also supportive of what he had to say regarding yesterday's match although I risk incurring your wrath by mentioning it once again. I watched very carefully the replay of that incident on television last night and I compliment the security people employed at Croke Park and the members of the Garda Síochána, who reacted in a very intelligent way when things could have got out of order at the canal end. We should all be complimentary when one thinks back to Hillsborough and the great tragedy there, certainly we would not like to see any such tragedy here. I hope Deputy Browne will be prepared to withdraw the amendment on the basis of giving us time to discuss it with the draughtsman in the hope of coming up with an amendment that would take on board the sentiments which he and I share.
As a most reasonable man I will accept that request.
Amendment by leave, withdrawn.
Section 15, as amended, agreed to.