Skip to main content
Normal View

SELECT COMMITTEE ON TOURISM, SPORT and RECREATION debate -
Wednesday, 23 Jun 1999

Vol. 2 No. 2

Estimates for the Public Services, 1999.

Vote 35 - Office of the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation (Revised).

On behalf of the select committee, I welcome the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation, Deputy McDaid, the Minister of State at the Department, Deputy Flood, and their officials Mr. Con Haugh, Ms Julie O'Neill and Mr. Con Considine.

We are meeting this afternoon to consider the further revised Estimate for the Department which amounts to just under £145 million for 1999. I would like the co-operation of my colleagues in dealing with the estimate in the most effective way possible. I hope we can at least conclude that debate not later than 3.30 p.m. because this room is required. The usual format is that after the Minister's opening statement, the main Opposition spokespersons will have approximately ten minutes each to make their introductory remarks. I now call on the Minister to make his opening statement on the overall estimate.

We will try to be as expeditious as possible but I do not wish to put a limit on anybody.

Does the 20 minute timeframe cover the Minister and the Minister of State?

No, but if that is what you require, we do not have a problem. We will try to confine the Opposition to about ten minutes each, so the floor is yours for whatever length of time you need.

I am pleased to have the opportunity to discuss my Department's Estimate for 1999. With my colleague, the Minister of State, Deputy Flood, I will outline our expenditure plans for the rest of the current year in the areas of tourism, sport and recreation and local development, including the drugs initiative. I propose to go through the key areas of my Department's estimate in the order in which the subheads appear on the briefing material provided to members.

The administrative budget as contained in subheads A1 to A8 totals £4.213 million. While this is a relatively small sum in the context of the overall size of my Department's Estimate, it funds the running costs of my Department, including payroll and office overheads. The 1999 Estimate of £4,213,000 shows an increase of £487,000 on the 1998 outturn, but included in this year's figure is a carrying forward of savings of £200,000 from 1998.

The B subheads provide for tourism expenditure. Last year was an outstanding year for Irish tourism. Our international visitor numbers for 1998 were over 5.7 million and it is estimated that they will reach the six million mark by the end of the current year. Foreign revenue earnings in 1998 were up by 9 per cent from 1997 to a record £2.3 billion. Tourism is now our second largest industry, supporting more than 125,000, or one in 12, jobs.

In 1999 we are likely to see a continuation of the strong growth achieved in the British and American markets in 1998. The overall targets for 1999 are a 7 per cent increase in numbers and a 9 per cent increase in revenue which would bring tourist spending to £2.5 billion which is more than three times the level of spending at the beginning of this decade. Recent CSO estimates already show the number of visitors up 15 per cent for the first quarter of 1999, on figures for the same period last year.

I cannot overstate the contribution which two successive EU operational programmes for tourism have made to our recent tourism performance. However, given the uncertainty over the precise details of future EU funding, we have to be prudent and consider all possible additional funding alternatives. I have been looking at options with the industry, including a possible tourist levy. In the meantime, it is essential that the level of overseas marketing is maintained at a level sufficient to sustain Ireland's competitive position in the world market. The allocations for tourism marketing and promotion in this Estimate will allow Bord Fáilte, in partnership with the industry, to undertake an enhanced overseas and regional tourism marketing campaign in 1999. While it is clear we cannot direct tourists to areas where they do not wish to go, we can encourage and promote the beauty, quality of facilities and all round attractiveness of our lesser known regions.

Regional distribution of tourism requires a long-term perspective, utilising product development, access, and marketing. I was very pleased this House had the foresight to approve additional funding by way of Supplementary Estimate, both in 1997 and 1998, for initiatives aimed at spreading the benefits of tourism growth throughout the regions. The strategy is to provide overseas visitors with the best possible information on the attractions and holiday possibilities of all parts of Ireland.

The impact of the marketing actions now being undertaken will take some time to filter through. Initial feedback, however, from both the agencies and the industry, is very positive, and the funds provided are believed to have empowered positive action in all regions, particularly on the western seaboard.

Turning to the specific subheads in the 1999 Estimates, I will start with the largest, subhead B1, which provides a grant-in-aid to Bord Fáilte Éireann of £22.386 million. Subhead B1 provides for the administration and general expenses of Bord Fáilte under various headings including pay, other administrative costs, advertising, promotional activities, subvention to the regional tourism authorities, RTAs, and non-overseas tourism marketing initiative OTMI marketing expenditure. Leaving aside the special funding provided to the board in the 1998 Supplementary Estimate to which I have already referred, the 1999 allocation is set at a similar level to that provided in 1998.

However, the original 1999 published Estimate of £26.386 million has been reduced by £4 million to take account of the planned creation of the new North-South tourism marketing company. Some £4 million for marketing expenditure has been provided in a separate subhead B3 for anticipated spending by the new company in 1999. While we are all aware of the remaining difficulties to be overcome in the peace process, I remain optimistic that they will be resolved and that as the new millennium draws ever closer, we will finally have the structures in place to enable the entire island to benefit from an even greater economic boom than we are already enjoying.

This allocation is provisional and is without prejudice to the outcome of discussions of the North-South Ministerial Council which will determine the final funding and activities of the proposed new company.

Also on marketing, I propose that part of the £4.55 million allocated in the budget for tourism marketing, and provided under subhead B4 - special tourism marketing initiatives - of my Department's Vote, will be used by Bord Fáilte to fund a series of specific initiatives, directed at overseas marketing campaigns. This will enable Bord Fáilte to complement and extend its overseas marketing programme particularly in the key British, US and continental European markets.

Millennium Festivals Limited will receive £2.5 million from the same subhead in 1999. This initiative was devised as a means of celebrating the millennium, using the infrastructure of some of our most successful festivals. Ireland's millennium celebrations have had a most successful start with SkyFest on St. Patrick's weekend which was a marvellous occasion.

The subhead also provides for support for the eight year marketing strategy for Irish golf holidays in the run up to the 2005 Ryder Cup which will take place in the K Club, and for a special tourism marketing initiatives scheme which I introduced last year. I am looking forward to supporting further innovative and interesting tourism related projects, not normally eligible for support under existing funding mechanisms, under the latter scheme in 1999.

Subheads B5 and B6 provide for tourism expenditure by Shannon Development. They will continue to initiate and support tourism development as a key element of their overall economic growth strategy for the mid-west region. They will receive £912,000 in grant aid from subhead B5 in 1999 to carry out this activity.

Subhead B6 has been introduced for 1999, to provide Shannon Development with £1 million to underwrite grant expenditure on applications actively under consideration by the independent management board for product developmentunder the EU operational programme for tourism, in anticipation of European Regional Development Fund funding becoming available later in the year as a result of reallocations within the programme, project de-commitments, deflator receipts, etc. As the programme is due to close at end of this year, the management board and myself were anxious to avoid a situation whereby good projects might not be funded because European Regional Development Fund funds for allocation to them became available too late in the programme. A provision of £6.5 million has also been included in subhead B2 for similar purposes. This is to underwrite grant expenditure on allocations by the independent management board for product development - Bord Fáilte area, which covers the remaining regions in the country. The provision accounts for the increase on 1998 in subhead B2.

Subhead B6 also includes a provision of £1 million to enable Shannon Development, through its subsidiary, Shannon Heritage, to develop a mining heritage project at Silvermines, County Tipperary.

Subhead B7 deals with CERT. The estimated Exchequer allocation to CERT for 1999 is £3.996 million which will be augmented by European Social Funds of £11.9 million, bringing their total allocation to £15.896 million. CERT expects to train more than 11,000 people for the industry in 1999. Under its three main measures, it organises courses for the unemployed, young first time job seekers and those already working in the industry. While there is still evidence of staff and skill shortages in certain areas of the industry, these are primarily in direct response to the levels of growth experienced in both the industry and the economy in recent years.

Subhead B8 provides £466,000 in 1999 towards the cost of the interest subvention on the tourism element of the loan subsidy for the small business expansion scheme. This was a £100 million loan fund made available in the 1994 budget to small businesses in the manufacturing, tourism and internationally traded services sectors, of which £25 million was allocated for projects in tourism. A Government interest subsidy of 3 per cent enabled borrowers to avail of loans at a rate of 6.75 per cent. The scheme was administered by the ICC Bank and has been closed to new applicants since April 1996. The interest subsidy payment in 1999, the final year of subsidies under the scheme, is £466,000.

The EU Support Measure for Small Business was launched by the Minister for Enterprise and Employment the following year, in September 1995. A sum of £52 million or 25 per cent of that fund was reserved for the tourism sector, administered by the four main banks. Loans were for a fixed term of seven years at a fixed interest rate of 6.5 per cent. The interest subsidy is jointly funded by the EU, the Exchequer and the banks. All funds were drawn down by 31 December 1996 and the scheme is now closed. The Exchequer's liability for interest subsidy payments in respect of the tourism sector loans in 1999 will be £1.08 million.

Subhead B10 provides for gross Exchequer support in excess of £4 million in 1999 for the Overseas Tourism and Marketing Initiative. This example of cross-border, co-operative marketing is to be encouraged at all levels and the intention is that its activities will be incorporated at the appropriate time in the proposed new all-Ireland tourism marketing company.

Before leaving the tourism sector I will update the committee on the recent progress of the national conference centre project - European Commission approval in principal for a 33 million euro European Regional Development Fund grant for the Spencer Dock proposal has been secured and, more recently, a third party procedural complaint has been disposed of.

The other major issues, including the consortium's planning application for its project, are also moving ahead. Time is of the essence as we move towards the end of the Tourism Operational Programme under which the project will be grant-aided. I am already in negotiations with the Commission, on behalf of the Government and the developer, on the arrangement which might apply to accommodate the successful completion of the project under the programme.

I now turn to the Estimates for sport and recreation. This Government has brought a new drive and momentum to the development of sport. Funding available for sport has been increased to £39 million this year compared with £13 million under the last Government. As the first cabinet Minister with responsibility for sport, I am proud that this is the largest annual budget ever allocated by a Government for assisting development in sport.

Under subhead C1 - Grants-in-Aid for General Expenses of Sports Organisations and other Expenditure in relation to Sports Activities - a sum of £3.451million pounds has been made available to fund the current sports expenditure for the period January to June of this year, including a residual amount until the end of the year. From July onwards responsibility for the major activities funded under subhead C1 will be transferred to the new statutory sports council for which provision for 1999 is made by way of grant-in-aid under a new subhead C7.

The original Estimate for subhead C1, £9.081 million, has accordingly been reduced by £5.63 million pounds and this sum transferred to subhead C7 for expenditure by the new council for the remaining six months of 1999.

The Sports Capital Programme, covered by subheads C2 and C3, is the primary vehicle for promoting the development of sport and recreation facilities and I am happy to say the Government has committed more than £50 million for expenditure under the programme over the next three years of which £14.75 million has been provided in 1999. This is a three-fold increase over what was provided in the previous three years and follows a comprehensive review of the programme completed by my Department last year. As a result, a new programme has been developed with revised aims and objectives, with revised assessment criteria and terms and conditions for grant assistance.

Under the new programme special priority is being given to the development of facilities in disadvantaged areas in line with Government policy aimed at increasing participation in sport and recreation particularly in those areas. Some 1,900 applications from across the country were received under the new programme prior to the closing date for receipt of such applications. I expect to be in a position to make announcements on the 1999 round of grant allocations before the end of July to the value of approximately £10 million.

My Department also administers the £20 million grant approved by the Government for the on-going development of Croke Park. To date an amount of £7 million has been paid and a further £7 million provided for in subhead C4 will be paid this year.

The Government has agreed to provide capital assistance of up to £6 million and annual operational assistance of up to £250,000 for up to 20 years towards the construction of a national, 50 metre swimming pool capable of meeting the training requirements of the country's high-performance swimmers. The capital assistance grant for this project has been provided for under subhead C5 of my Departments Estimates for 1999, while provision for the annual operational assistance will be made over the coming years.

A High Court action taken by a disqualified tenderer has delayed the completion of the tendering process. However, in a reserved judgment delivered on 16 June, last week, the Court ruled in favour of my Department. I expect the process to be brought to conclusion shortly and the successful tender to be identified in the near future.

Subhead C6 deals with the swimming pools programme, which provides capital funding towards the approved cost of refurbishing existing local authority pools and the construction of new pools with the remainder of the cost being funded by local contribution. Applications for funding under the programme must be submitted via the local authorities’ supporting the project.

A total of £16 million in grant aid has been allocated since 1988 under the programme in respect of refurbishment works at 25 pools and construction of three new pools. The provision is £3 million for this year and this money is fully committed to the refurbishment of three pools in Arklow, Monaghan and Waterford, the construction of six new pools in Ennis, Navan, Athlone, Enniscorthy, Wicklow Town and Galway, in the Renmore area, and the remainder is due on outstanding balances on three recently completed projects.

My Department is currently planning a review of the entire swiming pool programme including the procedures for the planning and financing of swimming pools and technical guidelines which set out my Department's requirements in relation to the planning, the approval and the funding of pool projects and also of requirements in relation to the maintenance and management to ensure the best value for State investment.

I have already mentioned the new subhead, C7, which provides £5.676 million in grant aid to the new statutory sports council. An amount of £5.630 million has been transferred to this subhead from subhead C1, a net £46,000 has also been transferred from the Department's administrative budget to cover administrative overhead costs which have transferred to the council.

The establishment of the council on 1 July next will be one of the most historic and most significant events in the development of Irish sport. Recruitment of staff for the new council began last year and a new premises has been secured in Fitzwilliam Square leaving the new body in a strong position to hit the ground running. The Irish Sports Council Act was signed into law by the President on 18 May last, and the order of establishment was signed by me on 14 June 1999. The establishment of this new framework represents the achievement of one of the key policy objectives of the Government in sport and recreation.

I take this opportunity to thank this committee most sincerely and the members of both houses who contributed in such a positive and constructive manner to the debates. One of the top priorities of the new council will be to launch into operation the national anti-doping programme.

Meanwhile, in pursuit of the policy objective of developing strategies to increase participation in sport, my Department has agreed with the Department of Education and Science to launch an initiative involving the new Irish sports council and the national coaching and training centre which is designed to help schools increase participation in sport and physical education. The Department of Education and Science is already piloting a new physical education curriculum in selected schools throughout the country.

The new initiative will provide for specialist training in the National Coaching and Training Centre for club coaches, teachers and parents which will enable them to work with children in selected schools in expanding and enhancing the range and quality of sport available. This training will help achieve synergy between schools and the resources and expertise available to them in clubs and sports organisations in the local community.

Other children's and school sports programmes under way are Youth Sport Foyle and Youth Sport West, operated by Donegal and Sligo vocational education committees respectively, in co-operation with the Western Education and Library Board in Northern Ireland. The purpose of these projects is to develop mechanisms to establish and maintain ongoing links between schools and sports organisations and local clubs with the aim of providing positive sporting experiences for school children across a range of sports activities.

I decided to suspend funding for swimming last year, arising from very serious incidents concerning the safety of children in the sport. I stated that I would not consider restoring the funding until the wider membership of the organisation had expressed its confidence in the procedures and made arrangements for the safety of their younger members. Since then, the former IASA has been replaced by a new governing body, Swim Ireland, on a completely restructured and revamped organisational basis, providing for greater openness, transparency and accountability, with increased involvement by members. This is more in line with modern management practices and governance. In tandem with the committee's consideration and subsequent decision to publish the report of the independent inquiry into matters relating to child sexual abuse in swimming, I requested Dr. Breda McLeavey, Chairperson of the expert committee which originally drew up the code of ethics and good practice for children's sport in Ireland, to reconvene the committee to review the code's contents in the light of this report. The committee has already carried out a considerable amount of work and is awaiting finalisation of new overarching guidelines by the Department of Health and Children on handling child abuse cases, before completing its review. The revised code will be published as soon as it is available.

Provision of £2.5 million has been made under the new D5 subhead of my Department's 1999 Vote for the Special Olympic World Summer Games in 2003. In 1997 the Government decided to approve grant assistance, up to a maximum of £5 million, with an initial annual grant instalment of £250,000 in 1999, towards the cost of implementing a bid to host the games in 2003. However, in order to enable the games organising committee step up the momentum of its fundraising efforts and to leverage financial backing on the scale required from other sources by the end of 1999, the Minister for Finance decided that the allocation for the games in the 1999 Estimates should be increased from £250,000 as provided for in the Abridged Book of Estimates for 1999, to £2.5 million, within the original £5 million envelope.

Special Olympics International recently announced that Ireland had been chosen to host the games in 2003, the first occasion on which it will be held outside the US. While the games themselves will be staged in Dublin, the associated host programmes will involve communities throughout the island, North and South.

The games organising committee has a major task ahead of it, not least in raising the necessary financial resources required to fund the games. Once again I urge the Irish business community to follow the enthusiastic and generous example of existing sponsors and come forward with pledges. In a unique development in the history of the games, the Taoiseach has decided to chair a special council of patrons of the games which will draw together the resources and motivation necessary to ensure their success.

The appropriations-in-aid, subhead E, provides for moneys received by way of appropriations-in-aid to the Department of Tourism, Sport and Recreation Vote. The main receipts concern drawdowns of European Social Fund moneys for the three EU funded programmes - local urban and rural development, URBAN, and Peace and Reconciliation, administered by my Department. The estimate for ESF receipts for 1999 is projected at £11.253 million. Additionally, some £270,000 of miscellaneous receipts are predicted, including £231,000 for the waymarked ways programme, making a total appropriations-in-aid provision of £11.523 million.

The overall increase of 47 per cent in the annual Estimate provision for tourism, sport, recreation and local development services comes on top of an increase of 6.5 per cent in 1998 and is one of the most tangible expressions of the Government's ongoing commitments to, and prioritisation of the development of these sectors.

Deputy Flood, Minister of State with special responsibility for local development and the drugs initiative, will now deal with the remainder of the Vote.

I refer to the subheads in the Department's Estimates under the general heading of other services. Subhead D1, the local development subhead, has an allocation of £16.944 million pounds for 1999. The subhead provides for expenditure and certain administrative costs under the Operational Programme for Local, Urban and Rural Development. The primary objective of this programme is to provide an integrated approach to local development through a cohesive framework which will assist in promoting enterprise creation and employment, a reintegration of the long-term unemployed and other marginalised groups into the labour market, promoting educational and training measures to prevent early school leaving and regeneration of the environment in inner cities, towns and villages. The programme, which is part of the overall CSF for Ireland, is jointly funded by the Structural Funds and the Irish Government. The total funding to the end of 1999 is £344 million. As the programme has developed and become established, spending has been accelerated, which is reflected in the substantial increase in the subhead allocations this year. As 1999 is the final year of the programme, a key focus will be to ensure that activity is intensified, expenditure levels continue to increase to meet revised forecasts and both quantitative and qualitative data to effectively monitor the impact of the programme are being collected.

Subhead D1 also includes provision for the pilot integrated services project which is designed to address ongoing concerns about insufficient consultation, co-operation and integration between organisations in the State-funded sector at local level, which hinders effectiveness, particularly in disadvantaged areas. The Taoiseach and the Cabinet Committee on Social Inclusion feel that this co-ordination must be tackled urgently. To that end the Government agreed last year that the Interdepartmental Policy Committee on Local Development, which is chaired by me, should oversee a pilot integrated services project. Four differing areas with endemic social problems were chosen as target areas for this pilot project, namely, Dublin's north-east inner city, the four flats complexes in Dublin 8, including Fatima Mansions, St. Theresa's Gardens, St. Michael's House and Dolphin House and also Jobstown, Tallaght and Togher in Cork.

The implementation phase was launched by the Taoiseach on 4 December 1998 and since then relevant departments of statutory agencies have designated officials at national and local level, responsible for driving the integrated services process within the respective department or agency. Persons designated at local level have commenced the process of agreeing the priorities for action in each area as part of an implementation team. They are assisted in this process by a national co-ordinator based at ADM Limited who looks after overall operational aspects of the project and by four development and monitoring officers, one based in each of the target areas.

A number of task groups have been established in each area to focus on specific priority themes such as early school leaving and family support services while community consultative fora operate in the four areas to give local people the opportunity to participate in a meaningful way in the process.

Subhead D2 provides funding for the operational programme URBAN, Ireland 1996-99. The 1999 allocation is £13.575 million. The operational programme to implement the EU-wide URBAN community initiative in Ireland was established by the European Commission to address in an integrated way, a range of problems associated with socio-economic exclusion within deprived sections of inner city and peripheral urban areas. The initiative comprises four sub-programmes for two Dublin areas - Ballymun, Finglas and Darndale on the northside and Tallaght and Clondalkin in the south-west - and on the northside of Cork city. There is also a technical assistance subprogramme. All operate on the basis of strategies and action plans developed by the three local steering groups. The total Structural Funds contribution for the URBAN initiative is £6.6 million, 50 per cent European Regional Development Fund and 50 per cent European Social Fund. With Exchequer co-financing, the total allocation for the initiative is approximately £22 million. In the early stages of the programme - with the steering groups developing the detail of their project - activity level was relatively low but commitment levels and expenditure increased as more projects came on stream. In 1999 the major task is to ensure that the agreed timetable for the major projects is observed, that the co-operation of other Departments and State agencies is harnessed in time to meet the URBAN deadlines and the support of the co-sponsors of projects copperfastened.

Subhead D3 provides funding for the programme for peace and reconciliation in Northern Ireland and in the Border counties which was established following the ceasefire in autumn 1994. The twin strategic objectives are to promote the social inclusion of those who are at the margins of social and economic life and to exploit the opportunities and address the needs arising from the peace process in order to boost economic growth and advance social and economic regeneration.

The programme is administered through a combination of Government Departments and statutory agencies, intermediary organisations and district partnerships. The district partnerships, as administering bodies, are particular to Northern Ireland. In the Southern border counties, public sector agencies and intermediary organisations have responsibility for delivering the programme.

In terms of project actions the theme of social inclusion, to which 30 per cent of total funds is committed, is given prominence. It is a fundamental value of the whole programme and a pre-requisite in all other sub-programmes and measures.

The Department of Finance is the lead Department for the peace programme which is administered at intermediary level by my Department and the Departments of Foreign Affairs, Social, Community and Family Affairs and Education and Science. This subhead includes a provision of £18.702 million in 1999, provides funding for 11 measures of the programme for which ADM is the implementing body through its offices in Monaghan.

The effort required to ensure that strategies, plans and projects were properly prepared and evaluated resulted in a slow rate of spend in the early years of the programme. However, in 1997 and 1998 there was a substantial increase in funding commitments approved by ADM which will have a corresponding impact on expenditure levels in 1999.

Subhead D4 covers the drugs initiative to which the Government allocated £10 million to support more than 200 community based projects in 13 local drugs task force areas in Dublin and Cork. This is additional to substantial funding available to Government agencies such as the health boards and the Department of Education and Science to tackle the drug problem.

The projects funded through the task forces cover the themes of education, prevention, treatment, rehabilitation and reducing supply and will be mainstreamed, if shown to be successful, following their formal evaluation. They will be integrated on a more permanent basis into mainstream services.

An independent evaluation of the drugs initiative, completed towards the end of last year, found that the local drugs task forces had achieved success, particularly in reducing the feeling of isolation and frustration previously felt by many communities in the drug blackspots. Arising from these findings, the Cabinet Committee on social inclusion decided to continue the localdrugs task forces pending further evaluation and decisions on mainstreaming of projects.

In April 1999, the Cabinet Committee allocated more than £25 million to fund 295 facility and services projects in the local drugs task force areas, as part of the £35 million young people's facilities and services fund, under the Vote of the Department of Education and Science. This allocation included funding towards 86 capital projects such as youth centres, community centres and sports facilities, which will provide accommodation for programmes and services for the young people most at risk in these areas. A number of new purpose built youth centres, including the Ballymun Central Youth Facility and the Corduff Sports and Leisure Centre, will receive funding to offer a focal point for all youth activities in the area.

In addition, the funding provides for a wide variety of community based programmes, including early leaving school programmes, after schools activities, sports and recreational actiivities, family support programmes, art, drama and music programmes, counselling and transport services. Five local sports development workers - four in Dublin and one in Cork - will be appointed with the aim of involving the young people in sport and recreational activities, and work with the new sports council on developing strategies to increase countrywide participation in this category.

The Government recognises that the problem of drug misuse is not confined to Dublin and Cork and has provided funding for a number of nationwide initiatives to inform and raise awareness of the dangers of drug misuse, particularly through peer education. Additional funding of £1.8 million has been earmarked under the young people's facilities and services fund for the urban centres of south Cork city, Galway, Waterford and Limerick. Last week the Cabinet Committee on social inclusion gave its approval to the allocation of £1 million to support the implementation of drug prevention strategies in Galway City and south Cork City. Funding will be provided for such strategies in Limerick and Waterford and proposals will be invited from Bray and Carlow in the coming weeks to respond to the needs of young people at risk.

We initiated a comprehensive in-depth review of our overall national drugs strategy which will inform the development of a new national policy on drugs. It will address both the supply and demand aspects of the problem and look at the effectiveness of the current response and the structures for delivering it. We hope to conclude the review and present its conclusions to the Cabinet Committee on social inclusion as soon as possible.

I thank you, Chairman and members of the committee, for your attention. The Minister, Deputy McDaid, will answer any question asked.

Irish tourism has experienced a period of unprecedented growth in recent years. This success is based on the quality of our product, our clean environment, our competitiveness and the effective marketing of Ireland abroad. In the Fine Gael discussion document that I published earlier this year, I stated that Ireland would be unable to sustain tourism growth unless measures were taken. It identified the imbalance in tourism growth and set out steps that must be taken if uniform growth is to be achieved.

The tourist season must be lengthened. A situation where almost 40 per cent of visitors arrive between June and August and almost 50 per cent between May and August is unacceptable. The shortness of the tourist season is causing problems of congestion at many of our prime tourist attractions. Unless growth is carefully managed throughout the country, our tourism success may sow the seeds of its own destruction.

Competitiveness must be maintained. We cannot kill the goose that is laying the golden egg. I am concerned that the Minister has again referred to the concept of a tourist levy. This is short-sighted and would damage and hinder the development of the industry. We have to offer a good quality product at a reasonable cost. The Minister's proposal would seriously affect our competitiveness. Our reputation as a green, clean island must be maintained. I am concerned that this perception is being seriously damaged in areas throughout the country.

There must be balanced regional development of tourist facilities. It should be a national objective to get every visitor from an airport or seaport to any part of the island within two and a half hours. There is a need, therefore, for major infrastructural development because of the inadequacy of our roads, rail network and internal air services. These issues must be addressed in the next national development plan.

About two weeks ago in reply to a number of parliamentary questions I was informed that the Minister was not responsible for dealing with the serious infrastructural development deficit. Is there co-ordination between the Departments of the Environment and Local Government, the Marine and Natural Resources, Public Enterprise and Tourism, Sports and Recreation? I subsequently tabled parliamentary questions to other Departments and the information supplied was seriously deficient. How is this serious problem being addressed?

There must be an even greater investment in marketing as we face increased competition from our nearest neighbour in the United Kingdom and other states in the European Union. It is essential that the ceasefire is maintained and that the peace talks are brought to a successful conclusion. Permanent peace would have a major economic spin-off, particularly in the tourism industry. Any breakdown in the peace talks or in law and order north of the Border would have a serious effect on tourism growth.

Employment in the tourism industry and the hotel sector in particular must be made more attractive to young people. The Government must provide greater investment in training throughout the country in the winter season between November and March. There is a serious shortage of staff in the sector. The danger signs are ominous and are not being addressed given that 75 per cent of hotels and restaurants reported skills shortages in 1998. Last week at Question Time I mentioned that there was a communications problem in a prominent hotel in Dublin because of the employment of foreigners in areas where there is contact with the consumer. This is a serious problem and it is not being addressed effectively by CERT or the Government. There must be further funding to support CERT's training initiatives, particularly in areas where there are skills shortages. The hotel and catering sector must also help itself by making a career in the sector more attractive and rewarding.

While we must be mindful of our competitors and acknowledge major improvements in career opportunities for young people, there are still serious anomalies in wages structures, even among State-sponsored companies. I recently heard of an adult working in the catering sector of Iarnród Éireann on a basic wage of £148 for a 40 hour week. He can hope to enjoy a £30 per week pension at the end of 30 or 40 years' service. This is no incentive to attract young people into the vital catering sector. Because of the non-availability of staff, the catering services often remain closed or limited on mainline train services. This is not surprising when Iarnród Éireann insults its workforce by offering £148 for a 40 hour week. Staff are often required to work unsocial hours. This type of reward for hard work is unacceptable. Skills shortages will continue until there is proper reward for labour provided.

The discussion paper that I published on behalf of my party this year has been followed by the Irish Hotels Federation publication, Into a New Millennium, a practical vision for the tourism industry. The ten steps outlined to maintain tourism momentum echo the sentiments of the Fine Gael policy document and must be considered by the Government.

At a time when there is so much controversy surrounding our athletes and in a month when we witnessed the upholding of the suspension of Michelle de Bruin as well as the suspension of two of our cyclists, it is regrettable given that all the ground work had been done that two years into his Ministry the Minister has failed to introduce a national drug testing and education programme. In a Dáil reply last week he indicated that he only initiated the tendering process in February. This is incomprehensible. Because of this it is unlikely that there will be testing of our athletes before the end of the main sporting season. Many sports, such as rugby and soccer, have completed theirs and not one of our athletes has been tested by a State agency. This is negligence and it is allowing our athletes to be exposed to all sorts of allegations. The Irish Sports Council Bill which was published last year took six months to go through the Dáil and Seanad. The tendering process should have been initiated in tandem. Its completion should not have to await the establishment of the statutory Irish Sports Council. The Minister could not give a date as to when the first test will be taken.

I am disappointed at the failure of the Government to invest in a meaningful way to address the appalling condition of many public swimming pools throughout the country. Pools provided between the 1930s and 1960s are in an unacceptable condition. In recent months the Government accepted a Fine Gael Private Members' motion on the issue but there has been little meaningful action since. The Minister boasted that the allocation to sport has been trebled this year. If one removes the £6 million allocated for a 50 metre swimming pool, which will be used by our elite athletes, the £7 million allocated to Croke Park, the £3 million allocated for swimming pools, much of which has been provided by the Department of the Environment and Local Government which had responsibility for the maintenance and funding of swimming pools before this responsibility was transferred to the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation, and the £2.5 million which had been allocated to Special Olympics, that leaves £18.5 million. These are once or twice off payments. If these are taken out of the £39 million about which the Minister is boasting, about £20 million is left. An increase from £13 million over the 1997 figure is insignificant. We are two years into the term of office of a senior Minister. My expectation from the national plan for sport which recommended the appointment of a senior Minister was that resources would follow. Unfortunately my expectations and those of dozens of organisations have not been realised.

The Minister referred to the code of ethics dealing with young people in sport. It is a long time since the publication of the Murphy report. The review of the code of ethics is being held up because of serious delays in the Department of Health and Children. The publication of the review under the chairpersonship of Dr. Breda McLeavey is delayed because of the lack of action by the Department of Health and Children in dealing with its side of the programme.

The allocation of the capital grants for this year will be decided upon in July. Some time ago I requested a debate on the review of the capital grants scheme. So far we have not had that debate. It should have taken place before any decisions were made because important decisions have to be made in relation to the money the Minister has available. Does he spend the money on grandiose national high profile projects that will ensure him publicity and will benefit only the top echelon of athletes? Alternatively, should we invest heavily in communities, parishes and clubs throughout the country and focus in on developing the grassroots of sport? If we encourage and develop the grassroots in sport eventually we will have a healthy infrastructure throughout the country at all levels. I am nervous that there will be major investment in high profile projects to the detriment of projects at regional and club levels. That debate should have taken place. I ask the Chairman and the Minister that no decision be made on the capital project until Members of the Oireachtas have given their views on the report. While I am conscious of the time constraints and wish to ask a few questions I will leave them until we deal with the individual subheads. I presume we will be dealing with the individual subheads.

Yes, individually.

Tourism is our most important growth industry and every effort must be made to enhance this industry. Given that the figures have increased, all may seem well in the industry. However, there is a problem in some areas. Greater attention will have to be paid to marketing in the future. We all agree that in some areas there are plenty of hotels and guesthouses but the problem is to fill them 52 weeks of the year. The major problem in tourism is seasonality. That is why we are not attracting people to the industry. Our first priority is to ensure that tourism is a 52 week business and not just a few months in the summer. People will not be enticed into an industry if they are taken on at Easter and let go at the end of September. This is where the Minister and the Department will have to concentrate their efforts in the coming years. A number of organisations such as the Town and Country Homes Association, the caravan and camping groups which have vast experience should be funded given that they attend trade fairs all over the world to market Ireland. Each individual involved in those organisations does it on a voluntary basis. They have vast experience. They know the industry and they know how to deal with tourists. Those organisations should be funded to help promote their side of the industry.

The Minister said he intends to introduce a levy on tourists coming into Ireland. This would be a retrograde step and I would oppose all measures to introduce such a levy. Ireland is a small country and there is a big and attractive world out there. We can see on our television screens each night the sunshine and the beauty of other countries. We have a wonderful country but it is very small. Will the Minister outline what he intends to do with the money from this levy? Perhaps he intends to ringfence it for a certain area and, if so, will be outline his proposals?

Training is of the utmost importance. We will have to go into the schools and teach our children how to deal with tourists. This is not about those who are working in the tourism industry; it is about tourists meeting people on the street and asking for directions. We have to be polite to them. They are not a nuisance. We need them. They are part of a big industry.

I note that the Estimate for CERT is up 12 per cent this year. Given the shortage of trained staff, a 12 per cent is not sufficient. There is a possibility that the Great Southern Hotels will be sold. A vast amount of training is done in these hotels and if they are sold, there will be a vacuum because this training will not be continued if the hotels are in private hands.

Given the great shortage of chefs, CERT should endeavour to train and entice young people to become chefs. It involves much hard work but there is good money in it. If the Minister wants CERT to make inroads into staffing problem in the industry he should increase the allocation. There is no way CERT will be able to work with only a 12 per cent increase this year.

The perception of the tourism industry is that it is work for low pay and long unsocial hours. We can deal with that perception in a number of different ways. The joint labour conference and the unions have a minimum basic wage but those entering the tourism industry are not aware of it. The policing of the minimum wage in establishments is a non event. There are some establishments which do not even give their staff a cup of tea. Staff beginning work at 7 a.m. have to take their sandwiches with them. It is no wonder the tourism industry cannot entice people into it. We must ensure the owners of hotels and guesthouses treat their staff properly. If that practice was evident in a factory, it would be dealt with, but the hotel industry seems to get away with that, although it does not happen in all hotels. That type of practice puts young people off taking up jobs in the hotel industry and the tourism industry generally.

While pay and conditions in the hotel industry are a matter for the industry and not the Department, we must encourage the industry to look after its staff. If it were to do so, it would not have a problem getting staff. The Great Southern Hotel Group does not have a problem getting staff. That hotel group is unionised and its staff have good pay and conditions. That hotel group never had a problem getting staff, but if it was privatised, which it probably will be, it would experience the difficulties other hotels are experiencing in recruiting staff. Former Great Southern Hotels that were sold off many years ago are experiencing great difficulties in getting staff. If those hotels had remained within the group, they would not be experiencing that difficulty. While this is not a matter for this committee, I wanted to point out the difficulty experienced by hotels in recruiting staff.

It is important to introduce sports into our schools. I read in a recent newspapers that the British Government is allocating a large amount of money to schools to establish leagues in different sports as many young people in England are not involved in sports in schools. I welcome that initiative. Will the Minister indicate when funding for sports will be made available to all schools? I appreciate that such funding is targeted. When we come to deal with subheads, I will ask him what criteria he uses to target schools in terms of the allocation of funding for sports. Given that the coffers are full, it is an opportune time for the Government to provide such funding. It is good for children to participate in sports as it helps prevent them becoming involved in drugs and other problems. Will the Minister consider allocating funding for a sports programme, particularly in national schools?

I am disappointed there is no provision in the Estimates for the partnership groups, which are the responsibility of the Minister of State, Deputy Flood. The partnership groups sought a commitment from the Department for funding up to 2000 until such time as the new tranche of funding comes onstream. As there is no provision for them in the Estimate, I take it they will probably have to fold up until such time as the new funding comes from Europe.

Does the Minister want to respond briefly to the points raised before we go through the subheads?

Regarding the points about the tourism industry made by Deputies Allen and Moynihan-Cronin, there has been a dramatic change in the industry in the past ten years - we all accept that. While 1.3 million visitors came to this island in 1988, six million visitors come here today. The unemployment rate was 18 per cent in 1988, but it is 6.4 per cent today and it is falling dramatically. We have a labour shortage in the tourism sector and other sectors. A total of 20,000 Irish students attend universities in the UK and I would ask them to come home. Many young people are returning home. There are 20,000 well qualified young people in the UK who will come home eventually. A total of 300,000 people left this island over a period of 15 years. Last year 44,000 returned home, although 18,000 left last year but they were the young educated Celtic tiger cubs who were taking a year off for a sabbatical. A total of 95,000 jobs were created last year.

There is a labour shortage. I learned from the experience of the Border that if one keeps putting oneself down, that image eventually begins to be believed in foreign parts. We have had major problems trying to entice industry to locate along the Border because people who went abroad kept saying the right people are not there and that the area was a devastated wasteland. That image filters through and it was difficult to get through to people that there are good young people living along the Border. If we continue to put down our industry by saying there are not enough jobs and promote a bad image of an area, that will damage our tourism industry. There is a perception of such an image of the Border area, which we are trying to change.

I would like Deputy Moynihan-Cronin to help me along these lines. Down through the years, the tourism industry has been doing its utmost to ensure that workers have decent jobs. Training is provided in the industry. There are a large number of good jobs in the industry and 80 per cent of people who join the industry stay in it. If young people are properly trained and qualified in the industry, whether in a sector of the hotel industry or as a cook or a chef, they will be able to get good jobs. Cooks and chefs are now nearly as sought after as quality footballers in the English first division. Chefs can now transfer between hotels in Dublin. There are, therefore, good jobs in the industry.

The Government is determined to introduce minimum wage legislation next year - we have made progress on that - and that will affect this industry. There will be a bottom line payment in the industry and that is another reason for young people to take up jobs in it. The Irish Hotels Federation brought in a quality employer programme last year. All the hotels in that programme have basic minimum wages and they treat successful job applicants well by awarding them good pay and conditions. The restaurants association has brought in a quality restaurant award. Hotels and restaurants which are involved in those programmes pay their staff well, but as in all walks of life, whether it be doctors, clergy, fishermen or politicians, there are those who will let every profession down and I accept the point made by Deputy Moynihan-Cronin in that regard. This image of the hotel industry is changing. There are good jobs in the industry and I am delighted with that development.

We are trying to attract young people into the industry, but we face competition from other sectors of the economy. Many young people want to branch out into computers and other sectors. We will have to recruit young people from abroad to the industry, despite the fact that it has been shown that one of the reasons visitors come here is to meet Irish people and to get an Irish welcome. If the industry continues to expand at its current rate, we will have a labour shortage, but there are improvements in this area.

Deputy Allen made the point that there is an imbalance in the growth of tourism and that it is necessary to have a uniform growth in tourism throughout the country. The Deputy knows that I am trying to ensure that growth in tourism is spread across the country. I accept that we have done tremendously well in this regard. There has been a major increase in the number of visitors coming here. The first quarter of this year, which normally is one of the leanest periods, shows an increase of 12 per cent in the number of visitors from the UK. A total of 998,000 visitors - only 2,000 short of a million people - came from the UK in the first quarter of this year. There has been a 24 per cent increase in the number of visitors from the United States and a 16 per cent increase in the number of visitors from Europe. That was for January, February and March, so we must be doing something right. It is very popular to be Irish today. My job is to ensure that people visit this country, I do not care where they come from. Ireland is now a popular destination and obviously that is a result of our marketing campaigns. Dublin is the point of access, but there will be a ripple effect and I have great confidence in the industry for the next ten years. If you drop a pebble in a stagnant pool, the ripples will go out from the centre.

That is very simplistic.

Yes, do not judge me on what I do today but on what I will do in three or four years. What has been successful today has been brought about by my predecessors as well. If the people are coming to Dublin, they will visit other parts of this island.

Where are they going? There is congestion on the roads.

We increased the access into Shannon and Derry. Ryanair is now flying into Derry. The number of access routes are continuing to increase. Continental now operates flights from the United States and Aer Lingus operates flights from Los Angeles.

Where are they going?

My problem is to ensure tourism is spread throughout the country. In every region there has been an increase in visitor numbers and in revenue, albeit different in different regions.

There is double digit growth on the east coast and only single digit growth elsewhere.

People have talked about the £3 levy and the price of a pint of Guinness and ten cigarettes. They say it will be anti-competitive and of course everybody will say: " Let the Exchequer pay for it." The industry and I both agree that if we are to remain competitive for the next five to ten years we will need to invest £20 million per year. We have multi-channel television and if you watch Sky or British TV you will see very comprehensive advertisements for Egypt, the Far East, Singapore and China, so there will be intense competition for visitors. The Shangri-La Hotel Group, one of the biggest groups in the world, for example, has 39 hotels, 15 of which are in China. We have to be competitive to face the intense competition in the market. Scotland, on our doorstep, is a huge sleeping giant and with its recent devolution, its Government will start thinking for itself.

From where will the £20 million, which we need to invest each year for the next five years, come? Deputy Allen suggests it should come from the Exchequer. I agree, and the Exchequer continues to fund Bord Fáilte in conjunction with the industry, but we need an additional £20 million. I am proposing a small levy. If we could plan to spend an additional £20 million each year on marketing can you imagine the campaigns we could run in other countries in order to remain competitive? Austria and Switzerland did not have to market their tourism product and for the very first time they are feeling the pinch, with numbers dropping as a result of competition. If you are able to plan in advance you create the supply. I am saying to the airlines that I will create the demand for flights in Europe, therefore, by increasing the demand, the airlines will have to remain competitive. That is the basis behind the levy. It is not anti-competitive and it will benefit the airlines.

How? I do not understand.

One tries to create ideas that will be of benefit to the country in the long-term. Let me give three examples. At one stage they said that urban renewal would not work in this country.

Who said that?

The urban renewal scheme was introduced when the Deputy's party was in Government. I said it was one of the best things to happen, but it was said in certain Departments that it would not work. Towns have blossomed from urban renewal. The GAA said it would never allow a match to be televised on a Sunday because the attendance numbers would drop, but they are now seeking to have three matches televised every Sunday because they have insufficient space for all those who wish to attend the games. When duty free shopping was first mooted, the idea was abhorrent to the people, but eventually we agreed to allow Shannon Airport to become a duty free area on two conditions, that we would dig a six foot moat around Shannon Airport in addition to erecting a ten foot high wire fence. I believe in the levy and the Deputy is being short-sighted.

We agree with marketing but we do not agree that the customer should be levied.

I told the Deputy what was said about urban renewal, the televising of Gaelic games and duty free shopping, and I think this will turn out similarly.

There is no need to levy the customer

Deputy Breeda Moynihan-Cronin made a similar point, that if the levy is successful the money will be ring-fenced for the industry.

That is the idea of the levy. The Department of Finance would never agree to the word ring-fencing, but we agree that we will set up a marketing fund for the entire island which would have £20 million in addition to all the other benefits because of the North-South bodies. It would be a marvellous incentive for people to come here because Northern Ireland has a major problem with funding for marketing. People have asked why I do not allow a bed-night tax or some other form of tax, but that would be an additional tax for Irish people and I do not intend to further tax Irish people. The proposal is that the levy will be imposed on everybody leaving the country. There is a similar levy in every other European country - the UK introduced a £10 sterling levy last year.

Will every Irish person leaving the country have to pay the levy also?

Every Irish person leaving the country now pays £5 and that will be reduced with the introduction of this levy. A good argumentis that I will be reducing the levy on Irishpeople, but everybody leaving the country will pay a levy.

Will the Minister explain the logic of taxing a potential customer and then attempting to set up a marketing initiative to entice the person to the country? Surely the revenue generated by increased numbers will finance the marketing initiative?

Let us say the average flight from the US to Ireland may cost £200 and we are talking about a levy of approximately the price of a pint and ten cigarettes.

Surely the VAT returns from meals and drinks will yield this amount

We should go on to the subhead. Deputy Naughten has a brief question.

Is the Minister talking about abolishing the £5 Government tax and introducing a new levy?

It will be amended to reduce tax on people. I am in discussions with the industry on this issue.

How does the Minister propose to take the money from people? Will it be done when they are leaving the airports or the ports?

It is a simple process. I was in Australia recently and I went through it when we stopped in Bangkok. One cannot get out until the ticket is paid. The ticket can be obtained through someone in an office or at a machine.

Is the £5 paid at the airport or the port?

When a person boards an aeroplane in those countries, they must show they have paid this small levy. If a person has the right change they can get the ticket through a machine, otherwise they must go to a teller at a specific area.

More bureaucracy.

It is included in the price of a person's ticket. That is the only way it can be done.

It is an international process. Every country in Europe is engaged in it.

I have visited many countries and I did not have to pay £5 for a ticket.

It is included in the ticket. When the Deputy goes abroad, particularly with a Dáil committee, civil servants look after it.

That is not true.

It depends on which country the Deputy visits. The Deputy should check it out the next time she travels.

Deputy Moynihan-Cronin raised the issue of funding for partnerships which is of interest to herself and Deputy Allen. We are awaiting the publication of the outline national development plan because local development and the partnership process are part of the submission my Department has made to the Department of Finance. As local development is intended to tackle social exclusion, it is an important element of our submission. Funding will remain in place for the partnerships until the end of this year.

I have signalled to the partnership groups through ADM and PLANET and some of the representative organisations that there will be a change in the current position of partnerships relative to partnerships and Leader companies coming together where they operate simultaneously. That is part of the process in which we are involved of the reorganisation of local government. I understand the outline of the national development plan will be published shortly and that will enable us to see the significance of local development. Partnerships have been successful and I am anxious to ensure the partnership structure will continue as part of local development and will continue to be funded. That is the theme of our submission to the Department of Finance on drawing up the national development plan.

We will now discuss subheads A1 to A8 which deal with administration.

On subhead A7, can the Minister clarify how consultancy services have increased almost threefold?

The subhead provides for fees and expenses with respect to consultancy assignments and other commissioned surveys and studies for the Minister, the Minister of State and the Department. An annual stipend of £1,000 is paid twice yearly in arrears and is subject to withholding tax.

Kit Campbell Associates, Edinburgh, were appointed in November 1999 to carry out an independent assessment and evaluation of the tenders received for the 50 metre swimming pool project. The fees agreed with the external consultants were £52,474, plus expenses up to a maximum of £4,947. However, the evaluation of tenders has been stalled pending the outcome of the High Court proceedings.

The contract for Slattery Public Relations Limited, which was renewed last year to provide a public relations and media consultancy to the Minister, the Minister of State and the Department at an annual cost of approximately £60,000, is currently borne under subhead C1 of the Vote, as was the case with the original contract with the former Department of Education. In view of the impending establishment of the Irish Sports Council on a statutory basis from 1 July 1999, it is proposed to transfer these costs to subhead A7 on a cost neutral basis. The project costs for the remainder of the year are estimated to be £30,000. I have kept Slattery Public Relations Limited, which was appointed by the Deputy when he was Minister of State, because it is good.

I am not questioning the wisdom of the decision but the level of the increase.

The two major increases resulted from the evaluation of the tenders for the 50 metre swimming pool and the decision to keep Slattery Public Relations Limited.

We will now discuss subheads B1 to B10.

On subhead B1, the Minister indicated some time ago that he was looking at the reorganisation of the regional tourism authorities. Has that review been completed?

I have funded the regional tourism authorities for the first time. They have received funding in the past two years of approximately £0.75 million. The regional tourism authorities will help to take people back to the regions. For the first time in two years I was at markets in Milan, Berlin and London where the representatives of our regional tourism authorities were present. They are in competition with Germany, Italy, France and the UK and they are marketing the regions. I will continue to fund them.

That was not the question. The Minister indicated during Question Time some months ago that he would look at the range of organisations in the regions which were operating under the tourism umbrella, such as the regional tourism authorities, the partnerships and local authorities. He indicated he would adopt a more focused approach to regional promotion.

Fitzpatrick Associates carried out that review, which will be reported to me by the end of this month.

The midland counties are a disaster zone as far as tourism is concerned. While there has been a dramatic increase in the number of tourists coming into this country in the first quarter of the year, there has only been a small percentage increase in the midland counties. Little is being done to promote the area or to encourage tourists to visit it. The Minister said that £20 million from this levy will be used to promote and market this country abroad. I want to know how many seconds of a television commercial will be devoted to the midland counties.

There is very little about the midland counties in any of the promotional literature. Looking for a tourist in counties such as Roscommon and Westmeath is like looking for a dodo. We must look at new ways of marketing these counties. For example, Roscommon could be marketed as a heritage county as it has a lot of historic buildings and so on, and Offaly could be marketed in terms of its bogs. We seem to be doing nothing to promote the middle of the country. The only time the few people who pass through it during the day stop is for a traffic jam; they then go off to Galway or Sligo. What are we doing to ensure we get tourists into the midland counties? If we could get them to stop there for just one day out of their trip it would be a huge economic boost to the region.

Sign posting is a disaster in this country and very little is being done about it. People relying on signposts rather than a map to get around the country will never get where they want to because the signposts are broken, twisted the wrong way or not there. What are we doing about that to ensure tourists can find their way around?

Deputy Moynihan-Cronin and Deputy Moloney wish to speak on this subhead. We will take the questions together.

I welcome the £4 million for the North-South tourism marketing company under subhead B1. How will that be comprised and when is it proposed to have it up and running? Will there be co-operation between the tourism authorities in the North and South?

I welcome the Minister's hands on approach to tourism promotion. However, in regard to the subhead for special marketing initiatives, I support the point made about the promotion of tourism in the midlands, although I do not want to dwell too much on it.

I was opposed to the idea of the levy but, now that I have heard the Minister's explanation, I fully support it. However, I hope the money allocated specifically to tourism promotion will take into account the areas which, up to now, have not benefited from it. I have been a member of a local authority for 18 years. Members of my local authority sit on all the usual tourism promotion bodies but, unfortunately, we never seem to steer tourists to the midlands. I accept the Minister's point that we cannot direct tourists to places they do not want to go. However, our difficulty is that we do not seem to be able to get the message across from Laois, Offaly, Longford, Roscommon and, to a lesser extent, Westmeath. I hope the Minister will focus on that.

I support the £4 million allocated to the North-South tourism marketing company. Could we nominate people from the lesser known counties to those marketing boards? There is tourism potential in the Slieve Blooms and the bogs of Offaly but, unless we are included in the overall marketing strategy and tourism is made part of our economy, we will slide back further.

Many local authority members in Laois, Offaly, Longford, Westmeath and Roscommon feel they are forever pushing against the tide in terms of trying to get this message out. I ask the Minister to have representatives from the lesser known counties on the North-South marketing bodies. I fully support the annual allocation of £20 million. However, in using that money, we must take into account, for the first time ever, the need to promote counties which have not got their fair share heretofore.

The allocation of jobs by the IDA to those counties is the lowest in the overall job creation structure. If we resolve the problem of IDA support for the five midland regional counties and, at the same time, promote tourism, jobs will be created in that region.

As Chairman, I have an obligation to say that when we participated with Bord Fáilte at the various marketing fairs in Berlin and London, the regional tourism bodies, North and South, were accommodated by Bord Fáilte under one umbrella. They were actively pursuing tourists and were successfully marketing their areas. They were not all there but regions were represented. When I came home to my region I criticised people there for not having been there because people from Waterford and elsewhere were there actively marketing their areas. The Minister has created a forum for them, given them the facility and they have contributed towards it. The members of the committee who were with me were very impressed by the level of activity at both tourism fairs we attended with the Minister and the Minister of State.

Thank you for those comments. I understand what members are saying about the midlands and other regions. The idea behind giving the regional tourism authorities funding of £750,000 over the past two years - on the basis that those in most need got the most funding - was to allow them to market their areas. One needs to be in the market to attract tourists and I was delighted to see the regional authorities doing that. I hope members of the committee, as local authority members, will encourage more of them to go to these fairs - they are not junkets but places where people do excellent work in making their regions known.

The seeds we sow today will bear fruit tomorrow - we are not necessarily going to get tourists overnight. In a number of years time, tourism will be our number one industry. There will be eight million tourists on this island in 2006. We have the capacity to cater for them but their numbers must be spread out if we are to avoid congestion and environmental problems. It is also estimated that our population will be 4.5 million people in 2006, which will be the largest since the Famine 150 years ago. As I said, the seeds sown today will bear fruit tomorrow, but one must market one's area.

I will continue to fund the regional tourism authorities because of the response I am getting. Like the Chairman, I was critical of certain areas for not being in the market. At the end of each year I asked each regional authority to provide audited accounts for the spending of that money.

The second area with which local authorities can help me is that signposting. I agree that signposting is vital if tourists are to be looked after comfortably. Signposts for cultural and tourism areas are the responsibility for Bord Fáilte, as are tourism offices. We provide the brown signposts. It was agreed unanimously by both Houses of the Oireachtas that we increase the budget for that from £22 million to £50 million this year. Funding is available for that specific type of signpost, but it does not include ordinary signposting which is a matter for the local authorities. It amazes me that a certain percentage, say, 0.5 per cent or 1 per cent, of each local authority's allocation for roads is not earmarked for signposting. A small amount of money could provide a great deal of signposting. Local authority members can help me in regard to signposting.

I accept the midlands and north-west regions have benefited less from the Celtic tiger. The levy which I was promoting was a £20 million fund. We need £20 million - I do not care where it comes from - to ensure we have money available for marketing all the regions. If it comes from the Exchequer, so be it. The levy was only a suggestion of mine, which would mean we would not have to go back to the Exchequer for funding every year. We would have multi-annual marketing plans five years in advance. That is the idea behind the levy, but it is only one of the ways I intend to raise this funding.

If the Department of Finance gave me £20 million each year, I am sure Members would agree with that. It is, however, rather difficult sometimes to make that case. This will be set up for the next five years, and at very little inconvenience to the customer, the visitor, the State or anybody else. We will be able to plan in advance. I disagree with those who say it would add to air access fares and so on.

One could market local airports and access. It will be used to market the regions and will be a marketing fund of £20 million. I agree we would have to look at the midlands which has a big problem. Perhaps there are not enough products there or perhaps not enough EU funding has been drawn down for good product development. There are other areas in the midlands which one could sell. However, one must be out there in the markets to sell one's region, and that has not be done until now.

Which Department will collect the levy?

We already pay a £5 levy.

Did the Minister not tell us that was being abolished?

I did not say that. The £5 levy on Irish people will be replaced by a smaller levy on all people.

So the levy will be less than £5——

Yes, it is a good selling point.

——for tourists and Irish people. Who will collect it?

It will be similar to the way the Irish levy is collected at the moment.

Who collects that at the moment?

The Department of Finance collects it.

So the Department of Finance would have its hands on it from day one.

I made a deal with the industry that if the industry and ourselves agreed on this matter, I would bring it to Government and we would create this fund. There would be stipulations that the fund would be created as a marketing fund for the island. It will be a £20 million fund to market Ireland. The Department of Finance will not tolerate ring-fencing of any form. The industry will have an input into the fund and I will only go forward with it if the industry agrees.

People are talking about whether I am getting my way on a levy. We want to create a fund, whether by way of a levy or from the Exchequer. I do not mind as long as it is there. The ideal would be that one could plan five years in advance and would not have to go to the Exchequer.

What is the income from the present levy and what is the estimated income from the proposed one?

With six million people travelling into the country, the current figures estimate that in the first number of years it will be between £16 million and £17 million and in the fourth and fifth years it will be £23 million to £24 million, an average of £20 million per year.

That would replace the income being enjoyed at the moment from the present levy.

On the net increase from the £5 levy, I will get that figure for the Deputy.

I will give the Minister an example of the problems we have in the midlands. One should look at the brochures issued by Bord Fáilte and other promotional organisations and the percentage of those brochures which include the county town of Roscommon. That is what we must deal with on a daily basis.

I asked about the North-South tourism body.

That is a very sensitive area. I do not know how many members will be on the board, whether it will be six, eight, ten or 12. We will have to decide whether it will be 50:50, which I assume it will. On the board members, the industry should be well represented on that North-South body and there should be ministerial nominees. On who will be the chairman or chief executive, those are matters for the Department of the Taoiseach, the Department of Foreign Affairs and those in the North. The board will be appointed on a 50:50 basis and £4 million is available. I am quite confident these North-South bodies and the North-South tourism public company will be set up.

There is great co-operation between myself and the industry here and we meet fairly frequently. There was a time when we met every fortnight when we were discussing issues such as the levy. We meet with the industry and bring forward our proposals together so that the policies and the industry are at one. In terms of Northern Ireland, the industry is doing exceptionally well. Tourism will be worth £4.5 billion to the Exchequer in 2005 and 2006 - that amount of money going to the Exchequer is not to be sneezed at. I hope the Exchequer will continue to fund and market the tourism industry.

Those in the industry in the North see the benefits which the industry here is reaping and want to participate. They understand they can be part of the success as well. Unfortunately, without the setting up of a North-South body, there is no way to correlate policy. That is what is lacking. The industry in the North understands that the sooner a North-South tourism body is set up, the greater will be the benefits to all of us.

Subheads B2, B3, B4, B5 and B6 are noted.

On subhead B7, the Minister spoke earlier about the labour shortage in the industry. He should inform the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform of the labour shortage in this sector, because he does not seem to realise that it exists, and of the need to get people to come to this country. We also need to explain the labour shortage to the Tánaiste, given that 6 per cent of the population is signing on the dole.

On Question Time last week, I asked the Minister if he had considered a homemaker's tax allowance to encourage those working in the home to join the workforce. Have there been discussions with the Minister for Finance on the introduction of a homemaker's tax allowance?

I support that. The Irish Hotels Federation put that proposal to the Minister for Finance last year and it has my full support. It is something at which we will have to look. I mentioned earlier that we must target the 20,000 young people at university in the UK. People of 40 or 50 years of age whose families are reared would do excellent work in the tourism industry. That follows on the point Deputy Naughten made about telling the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform of the labour shortage. The Minister is aware of the situation in this industry. I would like to make sure this country is a quality destination. People, no matter from where they come, are prepared to pay for quality. I do not want it to become known as a high cost destination but a quality destination, and people are prepared to pay for quality.

On the Deputy's point about the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, we need trained people to maintain our standards. Training courses have been made available. In years to come there will be excellent courses and well paid jobs in this industry, given the projected figures. From that point of view, our standards must be maintained.

We must ensure that our people are well trained and the Irish Hotel Federation is seeking individuals who have obtained quality approval. High quality hotels, other quality hotels and people who deal in quality are seeking new employees from other EU countries. Everywhere one goes in Dublin, one will find people who speak different languages. The city has become very cosmopolitan. We want to ensure that as many Irish people as possible become involved in the industry. However, there is no point in people believing that they can walk into a hotel and immediately gain employment. Because of the standards which have been put in place, people will be obliged to complete their training. We must ensure that the standards set by Irish hotels are maintained.

With regard to the Tánaiste's comment that the unemployment rate is 6.4 per cent, I remind Members that unemployment was running at 18 per cent in 1988. The Cabinet of the day spent the majority of its time discussing this high rate of unemployment and that which obtained in respect of emigration. As already stated, 300,000 people emigrated over a 15 year period. At present, however, the difficulties faced by the Cabinet revolve around dealing with the success of our economy. The current rate of unemployment is 6.4 per cent, which means that for the first time unemployment has dropped below the 200,000 mark.

Having realised that there are people living in disadvantaged areas in Dublin's suburbs, I launched a pilot scheme under the CERT initiative. I recognised that young women were not able to bring their children to the CERT offices in Sheriff Street because of the distance they were obliged to travel. These girls were obliged to get babysitters, travel on buses etc. What we did was bring CERT out to their areas. Since Mohammed could not come to the mountain, we brought the mountain to Mohammed. Therefore, we launched a number of pilot schemes in the disadvantaged areas to which I referred and they have been very successful. In two areas alone, Clondalkin and Ballymun, 226 people were picked up and transported to CERT courses. I intend to ensure that CERT courses are brought out to these areas because the people there do not have the money to pay for bus fares, babysitters, crèches etc. We have seen to it that crèches are provided at the centres where these courses are run. We are trying to reduce the 6.4 per cent rate of unemployment even further while at the same time ensuring the maintenance of quality.

We must move on, otherwise we will be obliged to adjourn and return to our deliberations later.

Would the Minister consider introducing crèches to all centres where CERT courses are held?

Yes. It is a terrific idea. The Deputy should visit some of the centres where pilot schemes are already in place to see the facilities on offer. There has already been a high uptake. Crèches form an important part of the service on offer and I would encourage their development. CERT has discovered that the existence of crèche facilities helps it to attract young women to its courses.

I asked one person from a disadvantaged area who obtained his training under the initial scheme last year to visit the two new schemes launched this year to discuss his experiences with the new recruits. Unfortunately, however, he was on three weeks holiday in Majorca.

It would be a step forward if crèche facilities were offered at all the centres involved.

In my opening remarks I referred to caterers in Iarnród Éireann whose basic earnings are £148 per week. These people are dependent on gratuities and productivity bonuses which they often do not receive because trains are so overcrowded that customers cannot gain entry to the catering cars. There is no point in referring to quality people working at the coalface and meeting tourists if caterers are offered that amount of money. I ask the Minister to discuss with Iarnród Éireann offering people reasonable remuneration for the work they do. Our theories about training will go down the drain if we do not treat people with respect. This is an appalling situation and it is only an indication of what is happening within a State-sponsored body.

The point I was trying to make earlier is that there are qualified people from non-EU states who cannot gain entry to the country. I am delighted that the new CERT programme has been launched but the problem is that it is a pilot project. All we have heard about at this meeting is pilot projects and what occurred in 1986 and 1988. We must look forward in terms of the action we intend to take.

I accept that the CERT programme is only a pilot scheme. We are trying to attract people from EU member states to come here to work because Ireland is, after all, a member of the EU. However, that is a different matter.

The operation of Iarnród Éireann is a matter for the Minister for Public Enterprise. Like Deputy Allen, I do not like to hear about people such as caterers who are paid at low rates. If members listened to "The Marian Finucane Show" this morning they would have heard about the dreadful treatment meted out to an elderly lady travelling by train. I use the DART almost every morning, and yesterday morning I arrived at the station to discover that the 9.46 a.m. train would not be running because of a lack of drivers. I was appalled, as Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation, to discover that there would be no train. I agree with the Deputy's comments but, unfortunately, they do not relate to my portfolio. I am sure, however, the situation to which he referred has been brought to the attention of the Minister.

We will now deal with subheads C.1 to C.7, sports and recreation services. Are there any questions on subhead C.1?

What arrangements are in place to ensure that the Irish teams will be prepared for next year's Olympics in Sydney? In the past the Olympic Council received a grant directly, but the funding arrangement has since been changed. Is the Minister satisfied that the teams competing in the different sporting codes will receive adequate funding under the new arrangement in order to allow them to prepare? Comments made by representatives of certain organisations seem to be raising the ante, but I support the arrangement that has been put in place. Is the Minister in a position to quantify the level of funding which will go towards the preparation of our athletes for Sydney 2000?

The Minister stated that £14.75 million is being provided under this subhead in 1999 for the sports capital programme. He stated that he will be in a position to make announcements on the 1999 round of allocations before the end of July, to the value of £10 million. What will happen to the remaining £4.75 million? He also indicated that, under the programme, special priority is being given to the development of facilities in disadvantaged areas. Will the Minister define "disadvantaged" as it is used in this context?

With regard to Deputy Allen's initial question, he will recall that the carding system is now in place. I intend to announce the allocation of £1 million under this system in the near future. As regards funding, I continue to follow the plan implemented by Deputy Allen. The Olympic Council of Ireland receives an administrative grant from the Government. However, I will discuss the matter shortly with the Minister for Finance, Deputy McCreevy, as Deputy Allen succeeded in getting funding in the year before the last Olympics. I do not know the amount yet, but that is how we intend to pursue it. I will meet with the Minister for Finance in the next few weeks to discuss that aspect.

To whom will the amount be allocated?

The sports council will be established at that stage. It will be given that funding and will determine what each of the Olympic disciplines will receive. As regards the £14.5 million, one must remember invoices are sent to the Department for capital allowances of previous years to honour commitments made by former Ministers. An allocation must be given to these projects.

The sum of £10 million was allocated to new projects.

That sum was allocated and I would like to see it distributed. I encourage people to come forward so it can be distributed. It is easy to allocate funding. However, some clubs to whom I allocated substantial funding, as recently as last year, have not started their work yet. I will be writing to Deputies and Senators to inform them that if work has not been started by clubs, they will be in danger of losing their funding. It will then be dispersed in the relevant areas again. Funding of £16 million, given by different Governments, has yet to be drawn down.

Perhaps those who apply for funding have grandiose ideas and do not expect to receive funding so that when they get it they are not able to follow through.

Yes. We are trying to make application forms more strategic. We received 1,900 application forms this year and we established criteria where an applicant can score up to 120 points. The majority are excellent applications. However, some have scored in the low 30s. Proper attention has not been given to applications and applicants have failed on a number of criteria. Hopefully we will be able to inform Deputies and Senators of the reasons applicants were not successful. The award of allocations is ongoing and although clubs which are not successful cannot re-enter the competition for at least one year, they will probably be able to apply for the next round of funding. Some of the applications about which Deputies have made representations have been disappointing. While there are criteria, Deputies know what is happening in their areas and this will be taken into consideration in allocating funding.

On subhead C1, in view of the complexity of this operation, has the Minister decided to hand over responsibility to the sports council or will he retain it?

I have made it clear that it is a ministerial option for any Government. If I handed over responsibility to the sports council I would tie the hands of any succeeding Minister or Government. The Minister and elected representatives should decide on this. If a future Minister, perhaps from the Deputy's party, wishes to hand over responsibility, the facility for that is available.

On subhead C2 and lottery funding for sports and recreational facilities, the Minister stated in a letter to Oireachtas Members that he hoped to make the announcement on allocations at the beginning of June. Subsequently, he said it would be the end of this month, while today he said it will be the end of July. Why will it take so long to allocate the funding? How many bonus points does an application from Donegal receive?

I will be very fair in the geographical distribution of funding. I do not remember stating in a letter that allocations would be made by the beginning of June - I said June or July and I stand by that.

I will pass on the correspondence to the Minister's office.

On subhead C5, the Minister referred to the 50 metre swimming pool. Who are the two remaining parties?

I cannot say that until the position has been clarified. The High Court found in our favour about two weeks ago as regards the third applicant, who has 21 days in which to appeal. I cannot answer the question until after that.

Could I submit a request under the Freedom of Information legislation?

The Deputy can do that at any stage.

Surely I could get the information by doing that. Why the secrecy?

The matter is sub judice until after the 21 days allowed for appeal.

Surely the identity of the other two applicants for tender is not sub judice.

I do not have a problem with giving the Deputy that information. However, if I should say anything that could cause——

Those in court know who they are.

One does not normally reveal the identity of unsuccessful candidates. I do not want to endanger the process as the matter is sub judice. We must wait 21 days from 16 June. After that I will have no problem giving the Deputy the identity of the applicants.

Are they Dublin based?

I cannot say.

We will leave the matter at that. We will know the names of the applicants very soon.

I already said in the Dáil that one is based in Dublin and one in Limerick.

I wish to refer under this subhead to the swimming pool in Roscommon which the Minister is on record in the Dáil as describing as the worst in the country. Despite this, it was not allocated funding on this occasion, yet Athlone will receive a second swimming pool. Will the pools allocated funding this year require additional funding next year to complete the work in hand? The Minister plans a review of the swimming pool programme. Will there be a similar delay with this review as there has been with the sports and recreation grants review? Will it be the middle of next year at the earliest before any allocation of funding is made for swimming pools for next year? It is a politically contentious issue in Roscommon. A number of members of the Minister's party are disappointed he did not make an allocation to the pool this year.

The Department is committed to reviewing the swimming pool programme before the end of 1999. As part of this exercise, it is proposed to review and update the procedures for planning and financing swimming pools and the technical guidelines which set out the Department's requirements relating to planning approval and funding of pool projects. It is also proposed to address a number of other issues in the review of the programme. These will include examining appropriate maintenance and management structures for pools for the future to ensure best value for the State investment.

I am not being political when I say that I do not know what was going on with swimming pools previous to this. I inherited a situation where £40 million was sought for repairs and other projects for swimming pools under the programme which existed since 1970. I asked my officials to visit the different areas and prepare a report on them so that we can put a case to the Department of Finance to see if further funding for swimming pools can be obtained. Swimming pools are important for midlands areas such as Roscommon which do not have a seaboard. They are used by people from five years up to 75 years of age. There is a huge demand on them and it is unfortunate they are so expensive. We have undertaken the review and it is hoped that this area will start to see improvements in coming years.

Regarding the swimming pool in Roscommon, the Deputy knows I gave permission for the project to go to tender. It is a matter for the local authority. I understand the pool is to be refurbished. However, I also understand that the engineers agreed that it would probably be better to build a new pool. The funding from my Department remains the same, which is 100 per cent of the refurbishment cost or 80 per cent of the cost of building the new pool. That funding is still available, so it is a matter for the Deputy's local authority to decide how to proceed.

Do I understand the Minister to say that not only has he approved the tender but funding is also available?

Yes. We would not allow it to go to tender unless funding was available. It is understood that the funding allocated to pool projects allowed to go to tender will not be drawn down until the year after it is allocated. A good engineer or county manager understands that. If we say the project can go to tender, the funding is available, but the county council has problems to solve first.

We have five minutes to discuss subheads D1 to D5 dealing with other services.

On subhead C7, will the Minister tell us when the first test sample will be taken under the drug testing programme?

The Deputy set up an advisory committee one month before he left office.

I asked for a date.

That committee reported to me in December last. I took on board almost all its recommendations and we proceeded to establish the Sports Council on a statutory basis. Some 36 Deputies spoke on Second Stage of the Irish Sports Council Bill, as did a significant number of Senators. The Bill was eventually passed by both Houses and was signed by the President a number of weeks ago. As the Bill proceeded through the Houses, I issued the tendering procedure for the laboratory analysis and sample collection. The tendering process ran in parallel with progression of the Bill through the House.

Is it only at the tendering stage?

Yes. Even if it had been put to tender in February of the previous year, we would still not have been able to use the service because the Sports Council would not have been on a statutory basis until 1 July. The tendering procedure is well advanced and it will be the first issue the Sports Council will discuss. It will decide which will be the winning tender. It would not matter had we had the tendering process in situ. The Sports Council would have had to decide on it once it was established on 1 July. As soon as that happens, the process will be in order.

I do not follow the Minister's logic.

I am concluding the debate on this. It is a subject for another time and not for this Estimate.

I asked for a date and the Minister cannot give it.

I am sorry about that. That concludes the discussion on subheads D1 to D5. Subhead E relates to appropriations-in-aid.

I am tempted to say that we should meet on another occasion. Although we were told we had ten minutes each, the Minister and Minister of State took 50 minutes to deliver their detailed statements.

All members had good innings and were able to discuss every subhead. We can put this item on the agenda for our next meeting on Thursday of next week. Perhaps the Minister or someone from his office could attend.

I said I was tempted. I did not say I would press the matter.

We intend to have a meeting next Thursday. If the Deputy wants the matter on the agenda, he should notify me.

We will let it through. There is no point in pursuing the matter.

I thank the Minister, the Minister of State and their officials for attending. I thank members for being attentive to their duty. The committee will meet next Thursday.

I thank the Chairman and the committee for the manner in which they treated me and the Minister of State, Deputy Flood. I also thank my officials because it takes a great deal of time to put all this together. Deputy Allen understands that and perhaps other members may understand it one day. Everything in my Department is detailed within the document which is available to anyone who wants it.

Top
Share