Select Sub-Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport debate -
Wednesday, 11 Dec 2013

Road Traffic (No. 2) Bill: Committee Stage

Chairman

The meeting has been convened to consider the Road Traffic (No. 2) Bill 2013. The purpose of the Bill is to amend and extend the Road Traffic Acts 1961 to 2011, to amend section 20 of the Road Safety Authority Act 2006, section 16 of the Road Transport Act 2011 and the Road Safety Authority (Commercial Vehicle Roadworthiness) Act 2012 and to provide for related matters.

I welcome the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Leo Varadkar, and his officials Mr. Maurice Treacy, Ms Nicola Hayes and Mr. Oisín Timoney to the meeting. Please ensure that all mobile phones are switched off.

Sections 1 to 7, inclusive, agreed to.

SECTION 8

Chairman

Amendments Nos. 1 and 2, in the name of Deputy McEntee, are related and may be discussed together.

Deputy Helen McEntee

I move amendment No. 1:

In page 8, line 27, to delete “6” and substitute “7”.

At present, once a person receives 12 penalty points he or she is banned from driving. It has been brought to my attention that if a new system comes into play whereby a person who is caught speeding receives three penalty points, a learner or novice driver who equals or exceeds six penalty points would be given one strike, and on two strikes he or she is out. If we change the number of points to seven, it would mean that learner drivers were given another chance before being put off the road.

I have tabled this amendment to give members an opportunity to discuss the impact of penalty points.

Deputy Timmy Dooley

I can appreciate what the Deputy is trying to do and at one level I can support it, but we need to ensure that young learner drivers are inculcated with a road safety culture. They need to be careful and mindful of speed limits. We have all broken speed limits on many occasions and have the penalty points to show for it but, notwithstanding that, if we are to change the way in which we do things I would be inclined to leave it at six. I do not have a major issue with what the Deputy is trying to do, and if there is general agreement I will go with it. However, in principle I would like the total to remain at six.

Deputy Dessie Ellis

On balance I support Deputy McEntee's amendment. If somebody received three points on two occasions he or she would have six penalty points, which is a harsh penalty for two offences. With six penalty points a young driver or a person with a provisional licence would be put off the road, but by increasing the number to seven we are giving them a little extra leverage. One can argue from the safety point of view whether that extra leverage will make much of a difference. In this case, I think the penalty is too high for a learner driver.

Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport (Deputy Leo Varadkar)

I thank Deputy McEntee for tabling the amendment. This issue was raised on Second Stage. I am genuinely seeking the advice and views of the members on this as I am not 100% sure either way. The way things stand is that one is disqualified from driving after 12 penalty points and one gets two points every time one is caught speeding. Therefore, one must be caught six times before one is disqualified. The risk in this legislation is that we go too far in the other direction. A learner or novice driver will be disqualified from driving after getting six penalty points, but we are increasing the penalty for speeding to three points. That means that after two strikes the person is disqualified from driving. I am aware of an instance in which a person was caught by a speed camera in Islandbridge and got penalty points and was caught in the same place two days later, but because did not receive the first notice until the following week, he had not had an opportunity to modify his behaviour. I am genuinely interested in members' views, but my inclination is to accept the amendment.

Deputy Helen McEntee

Would the proposed change be viewed as giving people an option to behave recklessly on the roads?

Deputy Leo Varadkar

I do not know that for certain, but we are going from a position at present in which one is disqualified after six strikes to being disqualified after three strikes instead of two. The complicating factor is the alignment of penalty points North and South, in which case we may need to go six, but new legislation will be required at that point. That could be the time to review it. We have the option between now and Report Stage to consult with members of the parliamentary party to see what they think.

Deputy Ann Phelan

Would it be possible to introduce a temporary change to see how it works, or would that be creating too much uncertainty? People need to be certain about the penalties for different road offences.

Deputy Leo Varadkar

I suppose anything is temporary in the sense that the Oireachtas can amend the law at any time of its choosing. One could not have it operating for a year, and have a number of young drivers taken off the road for two offences, and then expunge that.

Deputy Timmy Dooley

The fact that the penalty for a speeding offence has been increased from two to three points makes sense. We all know of examples in which a person is caught when going on a journey and then caught in the same location on the way back.

Deputy Leo Varadkar

Or even on the same journey.

Deputy Timmy Dooley

On balance, this seems sensible.

Chairman

There seems to be general agreement on this amendment.

Amendment agreed to.

Deputy Helen McEntee

I move amendment No. 2:

In page 8, line 38, to delete “6” and substitute “7”.

Amendment agreed to.

Section 8, as amended, agreed to.

Section 9 agreed to.

SECTION 10

Chairman

Amendments Nos. 3 to 5, inclusive, are related and may be discussed together.

Deputy Leo Varadkar

I move amendment No. 3:

In page 11, between lines 25 and 26, to insert the following:

"(e) in Part 6 (inserted by section 16(2)(e) of the Act of 2006), at reference number 1—

(i) in column (4), by substituting "3" for "2", and

(ii) in column (5), by substituting "5" for "4",".

These amendments make changes to the penalty points regime. They arise out of the review of penalty points conducted by my Department in 2012. Since drafting the Bill I have agreed to a number of additional changes to the system, which I am proposing in this amendment. I shall outline them briefing.

I am proposing to raise the penalty points for using a commercial vehicle without a speed limitation device or with a device that is not compliant with the regulations in cases where a device is required. At present one gets two penalty points for that offence. I am proposing to increase the number of penalty points to three, and five upon conviction. That is consistent with the increase in the number of penalty points for speeding. This applies to people with heavy goods vehicles or commercial vehicles who are required to have a speed limiter on their vehicles but do not comply.

In amendment No. 4, I propose to correct an erroneous reference which should read "section 16(2)(e)" but currently reads "section 16(e)".

Amendment No. 5 proposes a new penalty points offence for using a goods vehicle trailer or semi-trailer without an authorisation plate or with a plate that has been altered to make it inaccurate. That is an important issue with regard to the suitability of vehicles on the roads. I am proposing three penalty points for that offence on payment of a fixed charge and five on conviction.

Deputy Dessie Ellis

I do not really have any problem with these amendments. I wish to ask about learner drivers and drivers with provisional licences who drive unaccompanied by a qualified person. There are a large number of such people out there and we are imposing penalty points. I do not know how the law will be enforced. I suspect there are a large number of people doing this and renewing their provisional licences. Is it the case that many people will be caught out?

Deputy Leo Varadkar

In the Bill, the number of penalty points-----

Deputy Dessie Ellis

Yes - two penalty points for a learner permit holder driving unaccompanied by a person with a full driving licence.

Deputy Leo Varadkar

They are supposed to be accompanied for a reason. Because the person is a learner permit holder, he or she is not actually qualified to drive. I hear what the Deputy is saying. It will involve a change of culture. It is very common in Ireland at the moment for people who have learner permits to go out and drive on their own but it is not the norm in other countries. People in other countries take much more seriously that one must take lessons and get a company driving logbook and that one sits the driving test and only when one passes it can one drive on one's own. That is not the subject of this amendment.

Amendment agreed to.

Deputy Leo Varadkar

I move amendment No. 4:

In page 11, line 26, to delete "section 16(e)" and substitute the following:

"section 16(2)(e)".

Amendment agreed to.

Deputy Leo Varadkar

I move amendment No. 5:

In page 12, between lines 42 and 43, to insert the following:

"Part 11

CONTRAVENTION OF REGULATION 3 OF ROAD TRAFFIC (CONSTRUCTION, EQUIPMENT AND USE

OF VEHICLES) (AMENDMENT) REGULATIONS 2000 (S.I. NO. 224 OF 2000)

In this Part—

(a) ‘offence’ means an offence under section 11 of the Principal Act,

(b) a reference to a Regulation is a reference to a Regulation of the Road Traffic (Construction, Equipment and Use of Vehicles) (Amendment) Regulations 2000 (S.I. No. 224 of 2000).

Reference Number (1)	Offence (2)	General Description of Offence (3)	Penalty Points on Payment of Fixed Charge (4)	Penalty Points on Conviction (5)
1	Offence consisting of a contravention of Regulation 3(2)	Using vehicle in a public place without an authorisation plate	3	5
2	Offence consisting of a contravention of Regulation 3(3)	Using vehicle in a public place that has been modified or altered such that authorisation plate is inaccurate	3	5

".

Amendment agreed to.

Section 10, as amended, agreed to.

Sections 11 to 14, inclusive, agreed to.

NEW SECTION

Deputy Timmy Dooley

I move amendment No. 6:

In page 16, between lines 18 and 19, to insert the following:

"Amendment of section 106 of Principal Act

15. Section 106 of the Principal Act is amended—

(a) in subsection (1), by inserting after paragraph (a) the following:

"(aa) if injury has been caused to any person, or any person appears to require assistance, the driver of the vehicle shall offer assistance,",

(b) in subsection (3), by inserting after paragraph (a) the following:

"(aa) in a case in which injury is caused to person, and the person who contravenes subsection (1) or subsection (2)—

(i) does so with intent to escape civil or criminal liability, and

(ii) knows that injury has been caused to a person of such nature as to require medical assistance for the person at that place or that the person be brought to a hospital for medical assistance,

on conviction on indictment to a fine not exceeding €10,000 or, at the discretion of the court, to imprisonment for any term not exceeding 7 years or to both such fine and such imprisonment,

(ab) in a case where injury is caused to person, and the person who contravenes subsection (1) or subsection (2) does so with intent to escape civil or criminal liability, and

(i) knows that the person to whom injury has been caused is dead, or,

(ii) knows that injury has been caused to a person and is reckless as to whether the death of the person injured so results, and the death of the person injured so results,

on conviction on indictment to a fine not exceeding €20,000 or, at the discretion of the court, to imprisonment for any term not exceeding 10 years or to both such fine and such imprisonment,".

and

(c) by inserting after subsection (3A) the following:

"(3B) In a prosecution under subsection 3(aa) or (ab) evidence that an accused failed to stop his or her vehicle, offer assistance, keep the vehicle at or near the place for a reasonable period, or give the appropriate information is, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, proof of an intent to escape civil or criminal liability.".".

I thank the Minister and his officials, who have worked with a number of members to try to resolve a lacuna that existed in the law, particularly as it relates to those individuals who seek to avoid sanction by leaving the scene of a road accident having killed or injured an individual. Much of the motivation from my perspective was based on a case in Monaghan, that of Shane O'Farrell, whose case has gone through the courts. I do not want to comment on it. It struck many of us, including the Minister and his officials, that there was a gap in the law and that it needed to be tidied up. I thank the officials who have worked with us and the Minister for accepting this amendment in the Principal Act. Certainly it will act as a deterrent. It has the capacity to change a culture whereby people felt that by leaving the scene of an accident, whether intoxicated or not, they would not be liable to the provisions of the current legislation, thereby leaving people to die needlessly on the side of the road. This amendment would require people to be of good behaviour, to remain at the scene and to provide whatever assistance is possible to an injured party. Its inclusion in the legislation has the capacity to change the culture that, unfortunately, existed. The motivation was Shane O'Farrell. I hope this provision will become known as "Shane's law" in recognition of Shane, who was a young trainee barrister and who was deeply involved in law.

Deputy Leo Varadkar

This amendment arises from Deputy Timmy Dooley's Private Members' Bill which was discussed at Cabinet and agreed in principle by Cabinet. Much work has been done by Deputy Dooley, the Office of the Attorney General and my officials to get the amendment right. On that basis I am very pleased to accept it.

Amendment agreed to.

Sections 15 to 17, inclusive, agreed to.

NEW SECTION

Deputy Leo Varadkar

I move amendment No. 7:

In page 16, after line 33, to insert the following:

"Amendment of section 87 of Act of 2010 - exemptions for emergency vehicles

18. Section 87 of the Act of 2010 is amended by substituting for subsection (1) the following:

"(1) Requirements under the Road Traffic Acts 1961 to 2010 relating to vehicles and requirements, restrictions and prohibitions relating to the driving and use of vehicles, other than those provided under sections 49, 50, 51A, 52 and 53 of the Principal Act, sections 12, 13 and 15 of the Act of 1994 and sections 4, 5, 11, 12 and 14 of this Act, do not apply to-

(a) the driving or use by a member of the Garda Síochána, an ambulance service (provided by a pre-hospital emergency care service provider recognised by the Pre-Hospital Emergency Care Council established by the Pre-Hospital Emergency Care Council (Establishment) Order 2000 (S.I. No. 109 of 2000)) or a fire brigade of a fire authority (within the meaning of the Fire Services Act 1981) of a vehicle in the performance of the duties of that member, or

(b) a person driving or using a vehicle under the direction of a member of the Garda Síochána,

where such use does not endanger the safety of road users.".

I propose this amendment to replace section 18 of the Bill. The purpose of section 18 is not being changed. It seeks to provide greater clarity in the meaning of the term "ambulance service". At present, the Road Traffic Acts provide exemptions for the emergency services from a number of road traffic restrictions. The Garda Síochána and the fire authorities are clearly defined in law, so there is no confusion there, but the term "ambulance service" is not. In the Bill I have proposed defining an ambulance service as one provided by a pre-hospital emergency care service provider recognised by the Pre-Hospital Emergency Care Council. What this means in practice is that emergency services are exempt from various traffic and parking provisions, although not from the provisions relating to intoxicated driving, driving without reasonable consideration, careless driving, and dangerous driving, and they will still be obliged to provide breath tests, blood tests or urine samples where required. There are exemptions from certain rules for the Garda Síochána and the fire services. It has been unclear up to now what defines an ambulance service. Deputy Dessie Ellis first raised this issue with me about two years ago. It is difficult to define "ambulance service", but this is the best definition we can suggest, which is that an ambulance service is one provided by a pre-hospital emergency care service provider recognised by the pre-hospital emergency care council. Drivers of such vehicles would be expected to have the driving skills necessary.

Deputy Dessie Ellis

Does the amendment include a doctor travelling in his car to the scene of an accident? A doctor is not specifically mentioned.

Deputy Leo Varadkar

No.

Deputy Patrick O'Donovan

Could the scope of the definition be extended to co-operative doctors' cars, many of which have green lights on their roofs and some of which have sirens, when travelling to the scene of an accident?

Do private sector ambulances come under the pre-hospital emergency care council?

Deputy Leo Varadkar

It will usually include paramedics, in some cases the Coast Guard and in others people who are registered as advanced paramedics with the pre-hospital emergency care council.

I would be disinclined to take it too far because while we all want to ensure a doctor is not prosecuted on the way to an emergency, those people are not necessarily trained in how to drive or in defensive driving and I would be afraid of creating a new loophole that people would use. We have seen some examples with the quashing of the fixed charge notices. I am disinclined to create loopholes. I will ask my official, Mr. Treacy, to comment.

Mr. Maurice Treacy

What we have been trying to do in this section is to create an accepted definition of the ambulance service. The issue of doctors speeding to a genuine emergency has been put to us but our feeling is that is a whole different category and something we would need to think about in detail. The Minister says most of these doctors would not be specifically trained for the purpose of driving an emergency vehicle and all of the ambulance drivers, Garda and fire authority drivers must be trained to a very high standard to be able to use the blue lights.

Deputy Ann Phelan

On a point of clarification, from my knowledge, it is not the doctor who does the driving, as he has a designated driver who does the driving.

Deputy Leo Varadkar

That applies if the doctor is on call, for example with KDoc or NowDoc. If the driver is registered and recognised by the pre-hospital emergency care council, he or she would be covered.

Deputy Timmy Dooley

On a point of clarification, due to the reconfiguration of hospital services, because many of the smaller hospitals are no longer on call for emergency service, an advanced paramedic, usually in an emergency vehicle, will often attend an incident before the ambulance arrives to the scene of the emergency. Are they covered by this?

Deputy Leo Varadkar

If the provider is registered with the pre-hospital emergency care council.

Deputy Timmy Dooley

These paramedics are using HSE vehicles.

Deputy Leo Varadkar

As far as I know, every advanced paramedic or ENP is registered with the pre-hospital emergency care council, but the legal provision is that the provider must be registered.

Amendment agreed to.

Section 18 deleted.

SECTION 19

Chairman

Amendments Nos. 8 and 9 are related and may be discussed together.

Deputy Leo Varadkar

I move amendment No. 8:

In page 17, line 14, to delete “and”.

This amendment relates to commercial vehicle roadworthiness. I have proposed a number of amendments to the Road Safety Authority (Commercial Vehicle Roadworthiness) Act 2012 to tidy up some of the issues that have caused problems arising from the Act. The Act established the Road Safety Authority as the body responsible for overseeing commercial vehicle roadworthiness testing. Since its introduction, lessons have been learned which show the need to make some amendments to that Act. I have included a number of these amendments in the Bill itself. I have also decided that several more minor amendments are necessary.

Section 25 of the 2012 Act deals with the powers of authorised officers to enter CVR testing premises and conduct inspections and issue directions relating to failures to comply with the requirements and to the measures necessary to correct this. As originally drafted, the 2012 provisions inadvertently led to a situation whereby only the individual authorised office who conducted an inspection could issue a direction. I propose to amend this in order that other authorised officers could issue the direction. The situation I want to address is one in which an officer makes an inspection, produces a report on that inspection but may not be available when directions are sent out. I think this is an essential and practical change and is what was intended in the first place.

I am also amending section 34(1)(a) of the 2012 Act, which deals with the powers of inspectors. At present, section 34(1)(a) allows an inspector to stop and inspect a vehicle if the inspector is accompanied by a member of the Garda Síochána. I propose to extend that to members of Customs and Excise, so that if Customs and Excise stop the vehicle, the RSA inspector will be able to carry out an inspection. At present they are only allowed to do that if vehicles are stopped by a Garda.

The final change is to amend the language in section 41(4)(b) the original Bill which reads "enforcement officers, consultations or advisors" but should read “authorised officers, CVR inspectors, consultants and advisors”. I am not sure if the spell check caused that one.

Chairman

On that point, will this increase costs for those with buses and minibuses who have had their vehicles tested in the normal way and must hold on to the documentation?

Deputy Leo Varadkar

It should not have any bearing on the cost.

Chairman

I have heard a number of people talking about that issue.

Deputy Leo Varadkar

They are being charged at present, but that is a separate issue.

Amendment agreed to.

Deputy Leo Varadkar

I move amendment No. 9:

In page 17, between lines 29 and 30, to insert the following:

“(e) in section 25(5)—

(i) by inserting “, or another authorised officer acting on his or her behalf” after “he or she”, and

(ii) in paragraph (b), by inserting “or CVR tester” after “CVR test operator”,

(f) in section 34(1)(a), by inserting “or a member of Customs and Excise” after “a member of the Garda Síochána”, and

(g) in section 41(4)(b) by substituting “authorised officers, CVR inspectors, consultants and advisors” for “enforcement officers, consultations or advisors.”.”.

Amendment agreed to.

Section 19, as amended, agreed to.

Section 20 agreed to.

SECTION 21

Question proposed: "That section 21 stand part of the Bill."

Deputy Anthony Lawlor

I wish to table an amendment on Report Stage to make it illegal to tamper with odometers.

Question put and agreed to.

TITLE

Question proposed: "That the Title be the Title to the Bill."

Deputy Leo Varadkar

I will also table minor amendments on Report Stage. I am not sure if members are familiar with road trains but I will be tabling an amendment relating to them on Report Stage.

Question put and agreed to.