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Special Committee Corporation Tax Bill, 1975 debate -
Tuesday, 24 Feb 1976

Procedure

Before we resume discussion of the Bill there are a couple of observations I should like to make regarding certain problems that arise in relation to the meeting of these committees generally. I was with the front bench of my party today and I was asked to put certain points to the committee and in particular to the Minister in relation to the matter. We do not in any way wish to be unhelpful with regard to these matters. We have agreed to take several of these Bills in special committees because we thought they were more appropriately taken here than in the House. But we are running into a major difficulty which affects several of us very seriously. Both Deputy Haughey and I are members of the special committee on this Bill and on the Misuse of Drugs Bill committee, which is also a very long, technical Bill. In addition to that, Deputy Haughey is Chairman of the Joint Committee on Secondary EEC Legislation. He finds that his full time as a Deputy is given to trying to service those three committees. He can literally do nothing else. I am in the difficulty that I missed the last meeting of this committee and I missed the first meeting of the committee. There was nothing I could do about it. I have missed most meetings of the Misuse of Drugs Bill committee and there was nothing I could do about it. It is a matter in which I am interested because I drafted part of that Bill as Minister for Justice. The Secondary Legislation Joint Committee is very important and we want to suggest that at the very most each of the committees should not meet more than once a week. I know there are certain difficulties in relation to this Bill. I and all of us appreciate that. We have the additional difficulty that unfortunately Deputy Colley has been unwell for a number of weeks which throws a heavy additional strain on us. He got certain advice from people competent in this field in the belief that he would be here to deal with this Bill during the duration of its passage. Unfortunately, he has been ill for most of the past three weeks. He is due to leave hospital tonight or tomorrow but will not be back here before the end of next week.

Deputy Haughey is snowed under with all these other committees. My knowledge of this matter is limited and I find it extremely difficult to deal with such an enormous Bill without the benefit of specialised advice. Apart from the difficulty in getting such advice I have not the time to get it. There are people who have volunteered to give it to me but I have not the time to receive it. I wonder in these circumstances if we could make an arrangement, first, that this committee will not meet more frequently than once a week, notwithstanding the urgency of the Bill and, secondly, could it be arranged that for the future not more than one of these committees would be established or be in existence at the same time.

I understand that we have now been asked to nominate members to go on another special committee which we have agreed to in relation to the Wildlife Bill which is a huge document. Admittedly, we could spread the workload a bit better with a Bill of that nature but it is clear that these committees are going to run simultaneously. We are in serious difficulty. It was pointed out this morning that service on a committee such as this, from a political point of view, no matter what work is put into it, is of absolutely no value. One has only to look around here to see that that is so. A great many Deputies are reluctant to serve on committees of this kind for this reason. If the Bill was taken in the House, the contributions would, in many ways, be more frequent—whether they would be any better is a matter of opinion—but more people would be prepared to take part in the debate.

Deputy Andrews pointed out, for example, that the special committee on the Family Law Bill held five meetings at which the matter was gone into in great detail but although one would have thought that it was a question of some public interest not one line appeared in any newspaper in relation to the proceedings. If similar proceedings had taken place in the House undoubtedly they would have received a good deal of coverage. The result we find is—and I have no doubt that the same would apply, although perhaps less so, to Government back-benchers who would not be expected to take part to the same extent—that it will become difficult because of the virtual secrecy of these proceedings to get Deputies to take part.

I appreciate that fully but unfortunately we find ourselves in particular circumstances dealing with this Bill in that we have a very tight time schedule. I am sympathetic with what the Deputy has said and I think everybody else would agree on this but we had little or no option in respect of this Bill and I would be reluctant to have us tied down to just one day a week unless we had a full day at it. We have had broken days but, perhaps if we had a full day and, consequently, continuity, it would be easier to follow. If we have only short sessions per week people lose track of what we are dealing with.

I appreciate that but look at what is on in the House now. I was asked specially to be in the House today for a very important Bill. I cannot be there. I am here because Deputy Colley is in hospital and Deputy Haughey cannot be present. I hope Deputy de Valera will be here but I am not sure if he will. It is very difficult. The Misuse of Drugs Bill was in progress at the same time. This is a very complicated measure and the Wildlife Bill is also about to be taken.

This is probably a matter that could be gone into, in more detail with the Whips. We cannot do anything about it now.

I do not want to delay the Committee.

I have taken a note of what Deputy O'Malley has said and I can appreciate his reasons for saying it. I suppose each Minister is anxious to see his own Bill through but there is urgency in relation to this Bill. If we are to meet the time schedule which practitioners in general believe we should meet it means that we really have to complete the work of this special committee by 5th March. A great number of the sections are no more than a reflection of existing law. We went through quite a number of sections last week because I indicated there are no changes being made within the effect of the law. We are simply providing in this legislation that the existing state of the law will apply to corporation tax. From that point of view I suppose a great deal will not arise on it but there is this urgency and we also reached agreement with the British authorities—this again is to the advantage of Irish taxpayers—that we would have this legislation through this year. There are a number of reliefs in the legislation which cannot operate until the legislation is through. Deputy O'Malley can be assured that I will refer his remarks to the Government and we will see what can be done to accommodate the Opposition. There is always the problem that the House is sitting when the committee is sitting but I would be available on other days or at times when the House is not sitting.

I was going to make a suggestion in that regard but in view of what the Minister has said it may not be very helpful. I understand the House is not sitting on the week in which St. Patrick's Day falls so perhaps we could give two full days in that week to this committee.

As Deputy Colley may not be here until next week, perhaps we could skip sections that are controversial and come back to them on another occasion.

That may not be possible with regard to procedure. Again, if there is any issue of substance I would be happy to allow it to be recommitted on Report Stage.

I do not know if Deputy O'Malley was here when this matter came up for consideration. There was a particular section mentioned and it was agreed to recommit it. That would be the best way to deal with that.

Is there any possibility of section 43 being recommitted. I got a communication during the week-end about this.

This was the one I have said, I would be prepared to recommit on Report Stage.

Is that definite? I take it that it can only be recommitted in the House.

This was one in respect of which we received a late communication. Since this communication arrived only a matter of hours before we were due to deal with it here, I was not in a position to comment on it.

Let me make it clear that we must finish the Bill and report to the Dáil and then any sections which it may be considered necessary to recommit can be recommitted.

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