SECTION 9.

(1) Subject to the exceptions mentioned in this section, all butter exported from Saorstát Eireann shall be exported only from premises registered in the register of creameries, or the register of manufacturing exporters, or the register of butter factories, or the register of non-manufacturing exporters and shall comply with the following conditions, that is to say—
(a) the butter shall have been packed for export in accordance with the provisions of this Act and any regulations made thereunder, and
(b) the butter and also the package containing the butter and any wrapper in which the butter is packed shall be marked with the marks (if any) prescribed by regulations made under this Act, and
(c) if the national mark to be established under Part IV. of this Act is applied to the butter or the package in which it is contained or any wrapper in which it is packed, the provisions of this Act and any regulations made thereunder in relation to such national mark shall be complied with, and
(d) if exported from premises registered in the register of creameries or the register of manufacturing exporters the butter—
(i) shall have been packed in those premises and shall not have been removed from the package and wrapper (if any) in which it was so packed, and
(ii) shall be clean and shall not contain water in excess of sixteen per cent. nor any noxious colouring matter nor any preservative other than salt of a prescribed description, and
(iii) shall be exported direct from the premises aforesaid by the registered proprietor of those premises, and
(e) if exported from premises registered in the register of butter factories the butter—
(i) shall not, prior to export, be removed from the package or any wrapper in which it was contained when it left the premises, and
(ii) shall be clean and shall not contain water in excess of sixteen per cent., and
(iii) shall be exported direct from the premises aforesaid by the registered proprietor of those premises, and
(f) if exported from premises registered in the register of non-manufacturing exporters, the butter—
(i) shall not, prior to export, be removed from the package or any wrapper in which it was contained when it left the premises, and
(ii) shall be clean and, if and when so prescribed, shall not contain water in excess of sixteen percent., and
(iii) shall be exported direct from the premises aforesaid by the registered proprietor of those premises.
(2) Every person who shall export or attempt to export any butter which does not comply with all the conditions prescribed by the foregoing sub-section shall be guilty of an offence under this section.
(3) Every person who shall carry by land or sea for reward any butter which is being or is intended to be exported in contravention of this section shall, if such carrying is done in the course or for the purpose of the exportation of such butter, be guilty of an offence under this section unless such person proves that he did not know and could not reasonably have known that such butter was being exported in contravention of this section.
(4) Every person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable on summary conviction thereof, in the case of a first offence to a fine not exceeding twenty pounds, and in the case of a second or any subsequent offence to a fine not exceeding fifty pounds or, at the discretion of the court, to imprisonment for any term not exceeding six months or to both such fine and imprisonment.
(5) This section shall not apply to any butter exported—
(a) by means of the parcel post, or
(b) in any consignment the total gross weight of which does not exceed the maximum weight for the time being allowed to be sent by the parcel post, or
(c) under and in accordance with an exportation licence granted under this Act, or
(d) in a package consigned and forwarded through Saorstát Eireann from any place outside Saorstát Eireann to any other such place but not otherwise dealt with in Saorstát Eireann.

In sub-section (1), line 62, I move:

To delete the words " subject to the exceptions mentioned in this section."

This and the two following amendments, 15 and 16, hang together. It is really perhaps a matter of drafting, but it does seem to me quite unnecessary to set out all these export conditions when they are already embodied. Every one of them is governed by the conditions of registration, or the regulations governing registration, and if they were omitted they would shorten the whole section. Simply say that only registered premises and certain licensed premises shall be allowed to export, and then all the conditions governing invalidation are dealt with elsewhere.

The section only applies to registered premises?

Before you leave Section 9, I wish to draw attention to page 8, line 24, where it is stated that butter " shall be clean and shall not contain water in excess of 16 per cent. nor any noxious colouring matter." It is as regards the expression " noxious colouring matter." I wish to ascertain whether it is proposed to allow any colouring matter in the butter.

Oh, certainly.

Is that not in the definition of butter? " The word ‘ butter ' means the substance usually known as butter, made exclusively from milk or cream, or both, with or without salt or other preservative and with or without the addition of colouring matter."

Has the Minister prescribed the colouring matter that will be used?

I am quite sure that we will have to make some regulations as to what is noxious and what may not be used.

Is the figure 16 an agreed figure?

It is almost international.

The people in West Clare are sending me resolutions every day about it.

They want more.

Further down in this section it is stated: " the butter registered in the register of non-manufacturing exporters shall be clean and, if and when so prescribed, shall not contain water in excess of 16 per cent." Why is not the 16 per cent. in that case fixed as the maximum amount of water that should be in the butter? Why do you leave it open for regulations in order to prescribe it?

There is, unfortunately, a big trade in the country at present for farmers' butter containing more than 16 per cent. of water, and sold with that inscription on the butter. In fact, there are some parts of the country where a girl is supposed to be an extremely good housekeeper if she is able to put 20 or 25 per cent, into the butter, and put so much butter and so much water into a firkin. That is supposed to be an art.

It is a fine art.

Well, we could not possibly at the moment stop that trade; if it is to be stopped at all it will have to be stopped gradually.

When the butter factory is re-selling that they will have to work the water out of it?

What are we to do with amendment 14?

It is really a matter of drafting, but it seems to me very clumsy to set out all these innumerable conditions, all of which are set out elsewhere. It is the workmanship that my amendment is directed against more than anything else. There is nothing vital in it.

It is a matter of drafting. The Bill is divided into a number of sections. This is export butter, and from that point of view we look at the butter as it is at the port and we make a complete set of regulations under this for that, and prescribe penalties, and so on.

Before you pass from that, why in (e) do you not say: " shall have been packed on the premises "? In several of the previous ones it is " shall be packed on the premises "; why do you exclude it in this case? There may be some reason for it, but it occurred to me that you had forgotten it. If you look at the manufacturing exporter you will see that he has to pack on the premises. It is probably all right.

I think there is a trade reason for it.

It occurred to me that it was curious to have it omitted from the conditions of export for a butter factory, while it was in the conditions of export for a manufacturing exporter. Perhaps you might like to look into it?

I think it is a custom of the trade and that we do not want to interfere with it.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Amendments 15 and 16 not moved.

I move:

In sub-section (3) immediately after the word " shall " in line 54 to insert the word " knowingly."

I think this is very harsh.

The amendment would be impossible.

I take it that the Senator wants to change the onus of proof.

And it would be impossible.

You see, the section puts the onus on the carrier. He is the only person who can know whether he knew or not.

We discussed this with the companies, and while they were not enthusiastic about it they made no difficulties whatever.

Would not the taking out of this last paragraph and putting in " knowingly " be better?

You would have to prove that he did it knowingly.

I think it would be right.

How could you? The only person who could prove that is the man himself.

And he gets that chance.

I do not propose to press it now, but I would like to look into it further.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Amendment by Sir John Keane:
Section 9, sub-section (3). To delete all after the word " section " in line 58 to the end of the subsection.

That is part and parcel of the other.

Amendment not moved.