Special Committee Defence Bill, 1951 debate -
Thursday, 13 Mar 1952

SECTION 25.

Captain Cowan

I move amendment No. 26 :—

To delete sub-section (3).

I propose the deletion of the sub-section because I think it is a bit complicated. It says :—

The Minister may, by regulations, declare that, in relation to any particular service corps, the holder of non-commissioned Army rank therein shall, in lieu of holding a rank specified in column (2) of the Third Schedule to this Act, hold such other equivalent rank as may be specified in such regulations and, in that case, references in any Saorstat Éireann statute or in any Act of the Oireachtas (whether passed before or after this Act), or in any scheme made (whether before or after the passing of this Act) under the Defence Forces (Pensions) Act, 1932 (No. 26 of 1932), to a rank specified in the said column (2) shall as respects that service corps be construed as references to the equivalent rank specified in such regulations.

I do not know what the purpose of that is or what the purpose of giving that power is. Perhaps the Minister will explain.

Mr. Traynor

It is a very useful administrative provision. All it does is to enable you, for example, to call a private in the cavalry " trooper " and in the artillery corps " gunner." Instead of calling a private in the artillery " Private So-and-So " he is " Gunner, " and if he is in the cavalry he is known as " Trooper So-and-So. " If an officer hears something stated about " Trooper So-and-So " he knows immediately that he is a member of the cavalry corps. When he hears of " Gunner So-and-So " he knows that he is a member of the artillery. It is simple.

Captain Cowan

There is no intention of going above the rank of private—of affecting corporals, for example.

Chairman

Would you go so far as to embrace the suggestions made recently regarding the Garda ?

Captain Cowan

This specifies non-commissioned ranks.

Mr. Traynor

It is only to make it easy for an officer to identify at once the corps. Instead of asking the private what corps he is in he can identify him as a trooper or a gunner.

Captain Cowan

I am satisfied with that explanation.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Captain Cowan

I move amendment No. 27 :—

To delete sub-section (4).

This is somewhat different. The sub-section reads :—

The Minister may by regulations divide any non-commissioned army rank or non-commissioned naval rank into such and so many grades as he thinks fit and assign to each of those grades such distinctive description as he thinks fit.

There can be a reason for that but I just want the Minister to explain.

Mr. Traynor

Again, it is a simple question. For example, grades II and III are boys and grade I is for recruits. As the private's ability and value increases he is granted an extra star, which also enables him to secure extra pay. Three stars are the highest rank he can attain. It is a common thing. Soldiers, strange to say, like to have a lot of decorations on their arms of one kind or another, and it is an incentive to young fellows.

Captain Cowan

That is a perfectly satisfactory explanation.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Captain Cowan

I move amendment No. 28 :—

In sub-section (7), line 39, to insert after the word " may " the words " if, but only if, the man concerned gives his consent thereto in writing ".

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn, being accepted in principle.

Section agreed to.

Sections 26, 27 and 28 agreed to.