Special Committee Defence Bill, 1951 debate -
Thursday, 1 May 1952

SECTION 300.

Mr. Traynor

I move amendment No. 311 :—

Before Section 300 to insert a new section as follows :—

(1) Where—

(a) a person is, on or after the operative date, appointed to commissioned rank in the Permanent Defence Force and such appointment is for a specified period or is temporary, or

(b) a person is, on or after the operative date, appointed to commissioned rank in the Reserve Defence Force, or

(c) a person enlists, on or after the operative date, in the Permanent Defence Force or the Reserve Defence Force, or

(d) a person (not being an officer holding a permanent commission in the existing permanent force, as defined by sub-section (1) of section 291) becomes, on the operative date, by virtue of Part X of this Act a member of the Defence Forces,

that person shall be a person to whom this section applies.

(2) Where—

(a) no contribution is paid in respect of a person to whom this section applies, in any insurance year ended on or after the operative date, and

(b) during the whole or part of such insurance year—

(i) such person, being a member of the Permanent Defence Force, serves in the Permanent Defence Force, or

(ii) such person, being a reservist, is called out on permanent service, or

(iii) such person, being an officer of the Reserve Defence Force is employed on military service or duty during a period during which a proclamation authorising the calling out of reservists on permanent service is in force or during a period during which reservists are called out on permanent service under section 88.

then, such insurance year shall be disregarded in any application to such person of sub-section (4) of Section 8 of the Unemployment Insurance Act, 1920.

(3) Nothing in this section shall be construed as affecting the operation of Section 2 of the Unemployment Insurance Act, 1941 (No. 3 of 1941).

(4) This section shall be construed as one with the Unemployment Insurance Acts, 1920 to 1948.

This is one of a number of adaptations of the Unemployment Insurance Acts which have to be effected in order to cover the position which would arise if this Bill came into operation before the Social Welfare (Insurance) Bill. As Deputies are aware, the Social Welfare (Insurance) Bill, when it becomes law and comes into operation, will repeal the Unemployment Insurance Acts. In case, as I say, the Defence Bill comes into operation first, it is necesary to make these adaptations to bring the Unemployment Insurance Acts into line with the new terminology which this Bill introduces with regard to the Defence Forces.

This amendment is, in effect, a revised version of Section 2 of the Unemployment Insurance Act, 1941. The position prior to the enactment of that Act was that insurance contributors who served in the Defence Forces for a whole insurance year were, on discharge, prevented by Section 8 (4) of the Act of 1920 from obtaining unemployment benefit in respect of contributions to their credit in the Unemployment Fund before they joined the forces. Section 2 of the Act of 1941 remedied this position and enabled unemployment benefit rights acquired before joining the forces to be retained unimpaired.

Amendment No. 311 is Section 2 of the Act of 1941 re-written to bring it into line with the new terminology. It was found that amendment of the section in a piecemeal manner would be unsuitable and it was thought better to reproduce it in full. It is exactly the same in effect as Section 2 of the Act of 1941 and introduces nothing new in principle. It is merely, as I say, to bridge any possible gap between the coming into operation of this Bill and the Social Welfare (Insurance) Bill.

Question :—" That the new section be there inserted "—put, and agreed to.

Captain Cowan

I move amendment No. 312 :—

To delete paragraph (b).

This is the same point that I have fought already. It is an amendment of the Electoral Act.

Mr. Traynor

This section adapts certain provisions of the Electoral Act, 1923. It provides that references in that Act to " a member of the Defence Forces on full pay " shall be construed as references to a member of the Permanent Defence Force or an officer or man of the Reserve Defence Force out on permanent service. The portions adapted are :—

(i) Sub-sections (6) and (7) of the Section 1 of the Electoral Act, which provide that " members of the Defence Forces on full pay " living in barracks shall, despite that fact, be regarded for voting purposes as resident in the constituency in which they would otherwise normally be resident.

(ii) Sub-section (1) of Section 21, which provides that " a member of the Defence Forces on full pay " shall be entered on the postal voters' list of his constituency.

The expression " a member of the Defence Forces on full pay " has always been interpreted as including a member of the Reserve out on permanent service. The adaptation, therefore, is in accordance with existing practice.

Deputy Cowan's amendments No. 312 and 314 propose to delete the adaptations in so far as they relate to members of the Reserve out on permanent service. These amendments cannot be accepted. As I have explained, the adaptations are in relation to postal voting. A member of the Reserve out on permanent service has always been regarded as a postal voter in the same way as a member of the permanent force, so that this adaptation introduces no new principle. On the contrary, it is absolutely necessary that a member of the Reserve on permanent service should have the same facilities in this regard as a member of the permanent force.

Captain Cowan

It is all right. I was looking at it from the point of view that a man might be called out on permanent service when the register was being prepared, but he might not be when the election took place. If he is a postal voter he cannot vote at home. I think that they mark such voters " a " on the register.

Mr. Collins

Would it not be easier for him to vote if he got it by post ?

Captain Cowan

The vote is sent by the registrar to the Minister for Defence and the Minister sends it to the voter. That is all right while he is in the Army. He must vote in the prescribed way. Suppose, however, that he is at home. There may be some difficulty again, but I realise that you cannot provide for everything that can happen.

Mr. Hilliard

: Did I not understand that only a soldier or officer on full pay has a postal vote ? Does it follow that a soldier or officer on half-pay would not have a vote ?

Captain Cowan

He will not have a postal vote. He would have it now under the amendment, whether he was on half-pay or not, as a member of the permanent force.

Mr. Colley

The question of full pay would not rule out a man with deductions ?

Captain Cowan

No. That is ruled out in the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr. Traynor

I move amendment No. 313 :—

In paragraph (b), line 44, before " or " to insert " or during a period during which reservists are called out on permanent service under Section 88."

The effect of this amendment, which is similar to amendment No. 105 already accepted by the Committee, is to regard permanent service as including a period of imminent emergency during which a limited number of reservists are called out under Section 88.

Captain Cowan

I believe that the operation of these sections must be based on practical experience. It may be necessary to insert in the Electoral Act—I do not know whether it could be put in here—a clause stating that if a person is a member of the Reserve Defence Forces or a reservist called on permanent service at the time the register is prepared he should have a letter different from A opposite his name. He might have C, D, or E. The letter J refers to jurors. Suppose that he is in barracks at the time the register is being prepared the emergency ends three months afterwards ; the election takes place six months or a year afterwards ; the man should have the right to vote either by post or in person.

Mr. Traynor

Would he not be registered by the canvasser ? He registers the husband and wife as voters. Your difficulty is that the husband might be called out on emergency mobilisation and would not be present. I think that the canvasser or whatever he is called——

Mr. Collins

It is the rate collector.

Mr. Traynor

——should have no difficulty in inserting his name in the register.

Captain Cowan

He may find himself on both.

Mr. Hilliard

They are registered doubly and they opt to vote in one way or the other.

Captain Cowan

It is a case which might be taken up with the Minister for Local Government before the Bill is finished.

Mr. Traynor

As a matter of fact there are quite a lot of things to take up.

Captain Cowan

I know the points involved and I can see the difficulties.

Mr. Hilliard

Some method should be found so that if the man is at home he can vote.

Amendment No. 313 agreed to.

Amendment No. 314 not moved.

Question—" That Section 300 as amended stand part of the Bill "—put, and agreed to.