I move amendment No. 36 :—
In sub-section (1), line 49, before " adequate " to insert " in rooms separate from the workrooms ".
This section relates to the provision of accommodation for clothing not worn by the workers during working hours and the amendment proposes that the accommodation should be separate from the workroom.
This Bill, of course, is designed to secure the health and safety of workers employed in factories but I do not see that the provision of accommodation for clothing in a room separate from the workroom is essential for that purpose.
I take it that the purpose of the section is not merely to provide for the secure accommodation of workers' clothing from the point of view of it being interfered with or taken but also from the point of view of persons coming in wearing wet clothing and wanting to have it dried during working hours. It seems to me that it might be objectionable to have that clothing in the workroom and, furthermore, there are many workrooms in which, if you hang up clothing, you would not be able to wear it going out afterwards. If you are speaking of accurate and suitable accommodation, I cannot see how you could justify that as being adequate and suitable if it is merely a peg in the workroom. Surely, if we are going to seek enforcement in regard to such matters, we have some standards in our mind as to what should be enforced. It is set down here that the standard should be prescribed by regulation, but at least we are entitled to know what would be in the mind of the Minister in framing the regulation. If, for argument's sake, the workroom is a place where a very dusty and dirty process is carried on, would he regard it as being satisfactory if merely a row of pegs were put along the wall where the clothing would be subject to dust and dirt? If it is a workroom where very little heat is provided, would it be adequate for hanging up clothes to dry out? Along with that, clothes hanging up in a workroom are open to the access of people passing along; you have the trick-acting and fooling that goes on in every place and the clothes are bound to be thrown around. If we are thinking in terms of accommodation for clothing, it should be separate from the actual working place.
The requirement that factory owners should provide this accommodation for their workers is an entirely new requirement as applied to all factories generally. It would be difficult enough for many employers to meet this requirement without insisting that accommodation be provided in rooms separate from the workrooms. There would, of course, be many factories where it would be quite suitable for the owners to provide sufficient accommodation convenient to the workrooms or to provide clothing lockers for their workers, but there may be places where this would not be suitable or where, because of the character of the work undertaken in the factories, the accommodation provided would be unhealthy. In these cases, I think we could probably deal with the situation under Section 53 (2), which gives power to the Minister to do certain things after consultation with the Minister for Health. Frankly, I would sooner see the separate cloak-room with a separate clothing locker, but I think that is the ideal to aim at. The problem is to get to that stage as quickly as possible.
Probably the best way to answer the Minister is on the lines on which my last amendment was dealt with, that under sub-section (2) the Minister, in consultation with the Minister for Health, can prescribe certain standards ; he has to do it by class or description, but under subsection (3) he has power to make exemption. It seems, in regard to the Bill as a whole, that not merely are we seeking to enforce certain standards but we are trying to aim at the adoption of standards and the raising of the general level. If it is set down in the Bill in sub-section (1) that separate accommodation be provided, and if physical difficulties arise, as in the last amendment, the Minister has power under sub-section (3) to exempt the particular factory. I think it is desirable that the Oireachtas, as such, should indicate the types of standards aimed at.
If the accommodation is adequate and suitable, whether or not a standard is prescribed by the Minister, there is no special reason why that adequate and suitable accommodation should be in a separate room away from the workshop. For instance, if lockers were to be on each side of a workshop —lockers in which the workers can put their clothes—there is no reason why they should not be there or why they should be in a separate room, that is, providing the accommodation itself is adequate and suitable.
That would meet the case if it were a question of dealing with the provision of individual lockers but, as it stands at the moment, we are depending on the words " adequate and suitable " : what they may mean, I do not know.
Under the Bill, the Minister has power to prescribe standards where he thinks it is necessary to do so.
Again, I think we will have to use the factory committee to deal with the problems of this kind. If the factory committee feel that the standard is not high or that the accommodation provided is not suitable they can bring the matter to the notice of the factory inspector. I think we might try to get at the problem through the factory committee and by joint consultation between the management on the one hand and the representatives of the workers on the other hand. There are difficulties which you might run into if you imposed obligations which cannot physically be discharged—particularly when you are imposing a new requirement. That is a matter the committee will have to face.
I move amendment No. 38 :—
To add to the section two new sub-sections as follows :—
(4) Separate accommodation shall be made available for all persons whose working clothes are exposed to contamination with poisonous, infectious, irritating or radioactive substances. Such accommodation shall be provided with well separated facilities for street and working clothes.
(5) Rooms in which accommodation for clothing is provided shall contain individual lockers of adequate size and with adequate ventilation for clothing taken off during working hours, and benches or other suitable seating arrangements. Such rooms and lockers shall be kept in a clean state and suitable arrangements made for their periodical disinfection.
This amendment actually gives rise to the same type of discussion as we have already had—the question of trying to fix standards. I am moving the amendment because it seems to me that consideration might be given to the new sub-section that is suggested in respect of special accommodation being provided for persons for their working clothes where the clothes might be exposed to contamination with poisonous, infectious, irritating or radio active substances. If the Minister will agree to give further thought to that matter I will agree to withdraw the amendment.
I will make a note of what the Deputy has said in respect of the proposed new sub-section (4). This is a matter which can best be dealt with by regulation and it can be dealt with in a much more flexible way by regulation than by the rigidity of the section.
