I move amendment No. 1:—
Before Section 1 to insert a new section as follows:—
" In this Act the ‘ Act of 1896 ' means the Friendly Societies Act, 1896."
This is purely a drafting amendment.
Amendment agreed to. New section inserted.
SECTION 1.
Mr. Lynch
Mr. Lynch
I move amendment No. 2:—
Before Section 1 to insert a new section as follows:—
" The proviso to paragraph (1) of Section 8 of the Act of 1896 is hereby amended by the substitution of ‘ fifty-two pounds ' for ‘fifty pounds ' and of ‘ three hundred pounds ' for ‘ two hundred pounds '."
Mr. Dockrell
Why substitute £52 for £50 ?
Mr. Lynch
Under Section 8 (1) of the Friendly Societies Act 1896, a society may be registered under the Act if it contracts for the assurance of a gross sum exceeding £200 or an annuity exceeding £50. Since it is proposed under Section 1 of the Bill that the amount which may be nominated in accordance with Section 56 (1) of the Act of 1896, should be increased from £100 to £300 it would be anomalous that assurance benefits which could be granted by a registered friendly society should be limited to £200. The effect of the amendment is to make it possible to register a friendly society which grants assurance benefits up to £300 thereby keeping the registration provisions in line with those relating to the nomination of benefits.
The amendment will also have the effect of increasing from £50 to £52 the maximum amount of the annuity which a registered friendly society can grant. Section 3 of the Friendly Societies Act, 1908, amends Section 41 of the Friendly Societies Act, 1896 (which relates to the limitation of the aggregate benefits which a member may draw from one or more societies) by increasing the annuity from £50 to £52. A figure of £52 is obviously more suitable than a figure of £50 for the purpose of an annuity and accordingly the figure of £52 is proposed to be adopted for the purpose of Section 8 of the Act of 1896. It was possibly an oversight that the Friendly Societies Act, 1908, did not effect this change.
The net effect of the amendment will be to provide that in future a society may be registered as a friendly society provided that it contracts for the assurance of a sum not exceeding £300 or an annuity not exceeding £52.
Mr. Dockrell
Why is it being increased by only £2 ? That seems a very small increase. Could we not increase it to £78 or something like that ?
We are really dealing with the question of nominations. At the moment the law is that you cannot nominate a sum greater than £200 and the main idea of this provision is to increase that to £300. If you have your life insured for £300 you want to be able to nominate that sum to some person so that they get it when you die—this is, of course, on a friendly society policy. At the moment you can only nominate up to £200.
By nominating you are entitled to say that on your death a certain person will obtain an amount prescribed in the Act. We are now making that maximum £300. It is in other words to make it £1 a week instead of a fraction of £1.
Mr. Dockrell
Why limit it to £1 a week ? If the £50 was decided in 1906 surely now we should increase it more than just £2 ?
What I feel about it is that the object is to make it a workable sum on the basis of £1 a week. An annuity of £1 a week is a substantial sum, the equivalent of an old age pension.
I do not think there is any real objection to it.
Amendment agreed to. New section inserted.
Mr. Lynch
I move amendment No. 3:—
Before Section 1 to insert a new section as follows:—
" Sub-section (1) of Section 56 of the Act of 1896 is hereby amended by the substitution of ‘ three hundred pounds ' for ‘ one hundred pounds '."
This is a drafting amendment, which, if accepted, would mean that Section 1 of the Bill would be replaced by this amendment.
I think that is agreed. It is a more correct way of putting it.
Amendment agreed to. New section inserted.
Acceptance of this amendment involves the deletion of Section 1 of the Bill.
Section 1 deleted.
SECTION 2.
I had some misgiving about the relevancy of the second part of amendment No. 4 and of amendments Nos. 5 and 6 to the Bill, as they seem to go further in amending the Friendly Societies Act, 1896, than Deputy Cowan's Bill contemplated. Looking at Deputy Cowan's proposal, however, in the light that he wishes to bring the money limit in a section of the Act of 1896 into relation with modern values, I am prepared to give favourable consideration to allowing amendments by the Minister with the same object to the sections.
Mr. Lynch
I move amendment No. 4:—
Before Section 2 to insert a new section as follows:—
" Section 57 of the Act of 1896 is hereby amended:—
(a) in sub-section (1), by the substitution of ‘ three hundred pounds for ‘one hundred pounds', and (b) by the deletion of sub-sections (3) and (4)."
Section 57 (1) of the Act of 1896 provides that on receiving proof of the death of a nominator the friendly society shall pay the nominee the amount due to the deceased member not exceeding £100. Since the amount capable of being nominated is proposed to be increased to £300 the figure of £100 in Section 57 (1) should also be increased to £300. Section 57 (3) of the Act of 1896 provides that where on the death of a nominator the amount payable to the nominee exceeds £80 a certificate that death duties have been paid must be produced to the friendly society before payment may be made to the nominee. The point at which liability to death duties arises has been raised very considerably since the year 1896 and to-day liability commences at £2,000. In the circumstances the revenue safeguard contained in Section 57 (3) is no longer required in practice and the sub-section may be dispensed with. The Revenue Commissioners have been consulted and agree. Section 57 (4) of the Act of 1896 requires that the Revenue Commissioners shall give a receipt or a certificate on the payment of death duties. The repeal of Section 57 (3) would entail as a consequence the repeal of Section 57 (4) as well. The Revenue Commissioners have been consulted and agree.
Mr. Flanagan
We will be all very glad to hear that they are backing out of something.
Amendment agreed to. New section inserted.
Mr. Lynch
I move amendment No. 5:—
Before Section 2 to insert a new section as follows:—
" Sub-section (1) of Section 58 of the Act of 1896 is hereby amended by the substitution of ‘ three hundred pounds ' for ‘ one hundred pounds ' and by the deletion of all words from ‘ subject ' to the end of the sub-section."
Section 58 (1) of the Act of 1896 provides that where a member of a friendly society entitled to a sum not exceeding £100 dies intestate or without having made a nomination the society may, without letters of administration, distribute the sum due to the deceased amongst such persons as the trustee may decide, subject, however, to the procurement from the Revenue Commissioners of a receipt for death duties if the sum due to the deceased exceeds £80. The effect of this provision is to protect a friendly society against claims by other parties who may consider that they have an interest in the estate of the deceased. The proposal under Section 1 of the Bill to increase to £300 the amount which may be nominated in accordance with Section 56 (1) of the Act of 1896 is based primarily on the consideration that money values have altered very considerably since the year 1896.
The same consideration obtains where Section 58 (1) of the Act of 1896 is concerned and the effect of the amendment which is now proposed would be that the trustees of a friendly society would be empowered to distribute, without letters of administration, a sum not exceeding £300 where a member of the society dies intestate or without having made a nomination. Having regard to the point at which liability to death duties arises at the present time compared with the year 1896, the obligation contained in Section 58 (1) of the Act of 1896 as to the procuring of a receipt for death duties from the Revenue Commissioners where the amount involved exceeds £80 has now no practical effect. The Revenue Commissioners agree that the provision may safely be dispensed with. The amendment which is now proposed has the effect of deleting the part of Section 58 (1) which bears on this point.
Mr. Flanagan
I take it the Revenue Commissioners cannot raise any question about the money ?
Mr. Lynch
No, they cannot.
Mr. Flanagan
It will mean that in practice the Revenue Commissioners cannot have regard to anything under £300.
Mr. Lynch
That is right.
Amendment agreed to. New section inserted.
Mr. Lynch
I move amendment No. 6:—
Before Section 2 to insert a new section as follows:—
" Section: 59 of the Act of 1896 is hereby amended by the substitution of ‘ two thousand pounds ' for ‘ one hundred pounds ' for ‘ one hundred pounds ' wherever the latter words occur."
Section 59 of the Act of 1896 provides that where the principal value of the estate of any person entitled to make a nomination exceeds £100 any sum paid without probate or letters of administration shall be liable to estate duty and the trustees of a friendly society may, before making payment, require a statutory declaration by the claimant that the principal value of the estate, including the sum in question, does not, after taking debts and funeral expenses into account, exceed £100. In the year 1896 estate duty was payable on estates amounting in value to £100 or more. To-day liability commences at £2,000. It is proposed therefore under the terms of the amendment to substitute a figure of £2,000 for the figure of £100, thereby bringing friendly society law in this respect into harmony with the law relating to payment of estate duty.
Amendment agreed to. New section inserted.
Section 2 agreed to.
TITLE.
Mr. Lynch
I move amendment No. 7:—
In line 11 to delete " sub-section (1) of Section 56 of ".
The amendments which have been agreed to involve alterations in sections other than Section 56 of the Friendly Societies Act, 1896. Consequently the Long Title of the Bill would be defective. The effect of this amendment would be to alter suitably the Long Title of the Bill.
Amendment agreed to. Title, as amended, agreed to.
Report to Dáil agreed to as follows:—
" The Special Committee has gone through the Bill and has made amendments thereto, and has amended the Title to read as follows: ‘ An Act to amend the Friendly Societies Act, 1896 '."
The Bill, as amended, is reported to the Dáil.
The Committee concluded its business at 4.30 p.m.