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Special Committee Misuse of Drugs Bill, 1973 debate -
Wednesday, 16 Jun 1976

SECTION 25.

Question proposed : " That section 25 stand part of the Bill."

There was opposition to the section as it stood on the last day and Members were concerned that it would give gardaí excess powers. I have given considerable thought to the matter since the last meeting and I accept that some change is necessary.

I agree that giving the police power to arrest without warrant is a serious decision, which should only apply when it is essential for the public good. There are precedents for it, of course, but I am anxious that such a procedure should be used only as necessary in the public interest.

The nature of the drug trafficking situation is one, however, where one can easily visualise situations in which it is necessary to arrest without warrant, normally because of the ease with which evidence can be disposed of or moved. It seems to me that what we must do is retain the power of arrest without warrant as a last resort, while defining as clearly as possible the situations in which it can be used.

I have circulated a proposal to the committee. You will see that it restricts the power of arrest without warrant to clearly defined circumstances. These are circumstances where the Garda have reasonable cause for believing that the person concerned will evade or divert the course of justice, or that he has given a fake name and address or that the person has no fixed abode in the State.

The new proposal represents a substantial modification of the original section. It confines the power of arrest without warrant to clearly defined and limited circumstances and is in line with legislation in most other countries. I hope it meets with the support of the committee.

Deputy Haughey argued at our last meeting that this power of arrest without warrant should be confined to certain serious offences, that is, to certain sections of the Bill. I have thought about this at length. I think the difficulty in adopting this approach is that serious offences can be committed under every offence section in the Bill, almost without exception. Under section 3, for example, possession of cannabis for one's own use might be a relatively minor offence, whereas possession of LSD would be a quite serious one. The same distinctions would exist for almost every offence section.

If we tried to draft this section in such a way that it attempted to distinguish between various kinds of offences within each offence section, we would make the Bill impossibly complex and unworkable by the Garda. I believe that my new proposal, which represents a compromise, is a more workable solution. It also offers protection to the individual in a very real way.

To meet some of the examples given on the last occasion, I propose that section 25 be revised on the following lines:

A member of the Garda Sochána may arrest without warrant a person who commits, or attempts to commit, or whom the member has reasonable cause to suspect has committed or attempted to commit, an offence under this Act, if

(a) he has reasonable cause to suspect that the person will evade or divert the course of justice unless arrested, or

(b) having enquired of the person he has reasonable doubts as to the person's identity or place of abode, or

(c) having enquired of the person he knows that the person has not, or he has reasonable doubt as to whether the person has, a fixed abode in the State.

These qualifications are proposed to meet the objections which were made by the members of the committee to the section which, on reflection, I think you will agree was too sweeping and did not provide for any exclusions. The example we were given was of a young boy on drugs who was arrested without warrant. In this case, if a member of the Garda is satisfied that the boy has given his proper name and address and that he will not leave the country or try to disappear within the country, it would not be necessary to make an arrest. As far as the pusher is concerned, even if he were known to the Garda, and there is no suggestion of his trying to evade arrest——

This proposal of the Minister is a very considerable step forward. What we are concerned with is to try to maintain a balance of some kind—to realise the necessity to deal with the situation as we find it and at the same time to maintain some concept of individual freedom. The Minister has made a reasonable sort of compromise. I will be putting a couple of questions about it. As we will be dealing with it again on Report Stage, I presume the Minister will be polishing up his promised amendment.

My first question is whether we are satisfied that any member of the Garda will have this power even though it is a restricted one. The ideal would be that we would give this power only to the Drug Squad. However, there are many areas in the country where there are no such squads and the ideal would be that in each area we would have one garda with experience in this sort of offence. I suppose that would be impracticable. On the other hand, I question whether the power should be restricted to a particular member of the Garda, to particular ranks. That might be considered before Report Stage. Two, if a member of the Garda arrested someone under this section and it can be shown the garda did not have reasonable cause, would the person so arrested have grounds for an action for wrongful arrest? I suppose he would, and that that would be a safeguard. I can see what the Minister is after in paragraph (c)—the international drug pushers. I seems to me it could also apply to unfortunate itinerants.

I mentioned that on an earlier section.

We will have to look at this issue more carefully. Otherwise the Minister's approach is satisfactory. I can see that to try to limit the operation of the section to certain offences would be cumbersome and this is a better approach to the problem. On the matter of the duration of arrest, we should put in some proviso about the length of the duration of arrest without a warrant. This is particularly applicable to a minor or other young person. Subject to that, and on the understanding that there will be an amendment somewhere along these lines, I would be inclined to let the matter go.

Deputy Haughey has put questions which I think I have answered. I suggest that " any member of the Garda " is reasonable because there would be difficulties in fairly sizeable villages and perhaps small towns if we limited the members of the Garda who could deal with these cases. We know a drug squad operates in Dublin. I do not know whether they do in Cork. Neither do I think such arrests should be carried out by one special member of the Garda charged with this responsibility. Whether we could designate a substitute I do not know. I am informed that if there is an unwarranted arrest there could be a case brought for wrongful arrest. I would be concerned about the " no fixed abode " part: I would necessarily have in mind that there would be a considerable number of nationals who would not have permanent abodes in the State. There might be other people as well who would not have fixed abodes, people who would be skipping from one part of the country to another. In regard to duration of custody before charge, I confess I do not know about it. There is some stipulated period in the law generally during which a person must be charged.

I am interested to see the proposed amendment but I am anxious to get an assurance from the Minister, in view of the discussion on other sections, that the amendment will not impede the efficacy of the Garda in the matter of apprehending those who have committed an offence. I should like to see " attempting to commit " excluded and to insert " being suspected of committing". Are we impeding the power of the Garda to arrest a person without a warrant? I can see a certain amount of justification for " suspicion ", or where there is reasonable doubt, or where there is an attempt to break into a chemist shop or something like that. Surely at the moment the Garda can arrest without warrant in such a case and the person need not have drugs on him? Are we in this legislation limiting the powers of the Garda to arrest such a person?

A lot of the discussion on section 25 has been merely waffle about liberty. What we want this Bill to do is to deter people from engaging in the illegal use or selling of drugs. The effectiveness of the Bill will be undermined if the trend suggested by the Minister is to be continued, that is, diluting the power of the Bill as drafted. I think it is reasonable that, if a member of the Garda is of opinion that a person has committed an offence, he should be able to arrest him without warrant. If a person is caught with pethedine or some other drug like that, it is wrong that because there does not appear to be evidence of evading or perverting the course of justice, because there is no reasonable doubt as regards a person's identity or place of abode, and because there is a fixed abode in the State, he should be immune from arrest. I do not see any justification for changing what has been in the legislation up to this. I think we are making a mistake in limiting the powers of arrest of the Garda Síochána, particularly as these powers have existed up to this in this legislation. I would like the Minister, when he is having another look at this rough draft, to consider the aspect I have mentioned.

The garda must be satisfied, according to the amendment I proposed, that he can be contacted and can be charged, but if he is not certain that he can be contacted subsequently, then he may arrest him.

I think it is clear-cut.

These provisions are not contained in any other legislation I know of, where, if a member of the Garda Síochána wants to arrest a person, he has to satisfy himself on the three things I mentioned or even satisfy himself on anything apart from the fact that he has good grounds for believing that a person has committed a crime.

The pre-conditions laid down seem reasonable.

There is no need to have that at all.

We are letting section 25 stand and what Deputy Byrne, in his ultra-right wing manner, wishes to raise he can raise on Report Stage in the Dáil. This amendment is not strictly before us: it is only through the courtesy of the Minister in telling us what he intends to do on Report Stage.

It is not the full proposal?

Question put and agreed to.
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