Special Committee Registration of Business Names Bill, 1963 debate -
Friday, 12 Jul 1963

SECTION 4.

Mr. Sweetman

I move amendment No. 3 :

In subsection (1) to add a new paragraph as follows :—

" (h) where at the date of registration the person carries on any other business, the general nature of such business and the name in which it is carried on and if such person is a director of a company the name of such company."

The purpose of this amendment is to get into the Business Names Register the same information as there is in the last column of the annual return of directors of a company. I think it desirable that there would be something of that nature. It would be desirable that you could tie up the various concerns in which a person is mixed up and that you would be able to track under which thimble lies the pea, if you wanted to.

Mr. J. Lynch

The view is that the section as it stands goes far enough in order to achieve the purposes of the Bill. To go as far as Deputy Sweetman's additional paragraph would seem to require would perhaps give reason to think that you should go even further still. It is considered unnecessary to impose the additional burdens involved in the amendment. One could provide, for instance, that the address of the other business should also be given, the names of all the partners involved, the names of the other businesses in which they have an interest, and so on.

Mr. Sweetman

If you once give any one of them, then you are in the situation that you can turn up the register for that one and you can get all the information you want and it is quite unnecessary to give any other.

Mr. J. Lynch

But, in certain circumstances, it may not be necessary to register at all and this chain of information might be broken. You are by no means tying up all possibilities and all permutations and combinations in connection with business names because of the large number of people who are not required to register. Neither the 1916 Act nor this Bill was intended to provide a complete dossier of every business connection of every description that a person named in the register would have. If any further information about a person who is registered is required there are various agencies that can provide such information. I do not think it was ever the intention that all such information should be available merely in the business names register.

There is a reference here in the amendment to directors of a company —that if the director of a company is named in the register of business names the name of the company must be registered. It is the practice of the registrar, where a return indicates that an individual is a company director, to require the name of that company to be listed. So, in practice, that part of the Deputy's amendment is already being effected. It was an interpretation of the law as it stood and as it would now stand. I have no reason to believe that there would be any different interpretation in the future. That requirement can, if necessary, be incorporated in the form that it will be necessary to prescribe.

Chairman

Can the prescribed form require information other than this?

Mr. J. Lynch

Our advice is that it is not information other than what is required by the law.

Mr. Gallagher

The word " business " has a wide connotation. Would it mean a farmer ?

Mr. J. Lynch

I think that the normal farming activities could not possibly be covered by the Bill unless a man was doing business on a big scale, say, and was actually trading under a business name. If he were selling and buying things under a business name which is not his own name then he would be caught by it but, ordinarily, farmers would not be affected by this Bill. A farmer is not likely to have a name for business purposes other than his own name.

Mr. Gallagher

I only raise the point because Section 2 states that the word " business " include profession.

Mr. J. Lynch

The idea of that is to cover solicitors' offices, accountants' offices, and so on—and they are all registered.

Mr. Sweetman

If the Minister feels like that, it is his responsibility—not mine.

Mr. J. Lynch

I think it is all right.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr. Sweetman

I move amendment No. 4 :

To add to the section a new subsection as follows :—

" (3) Where the business carried on at different places of business is of a different nature, the general nature of the business carried on at each such place of business shall be stated."

If a person carries on business as an electrical engineer in one place and as a grocer in another, has he got to include the general nature of each business in his registration?

Mr. J. Lynch

The view is that if he complies with paragraph (b) of subsection (1) and gives an adequate description of the general nature of whatever businesses he is involved in, all reasonable requirements will be complied with. If he has a number of different businesses, he merely has to ensure that the information given by him under paragraph (b) constitutes an adequate general description of the business.

Mr. Sweetman

Is he bound to disclose all the places he carries on business ?

Mr. J. Lynch

No, only the principal office.

Mr. Sweetman

You could easily have the situation in which you have " Patrick Murphy & Sons, Grocers, 158-159 Capel Street." You look it up and you find " Patrick Murphy & Sons " carry on business as electrical engineers at 16 Henry Street. They are not registered. You have nothing, unless you have the additional description, to tie the one with the other. You must either provide that they must register themselves for each address, which would be very difficult, or that they must give the general nature of each of the businesses they carry on.

Mr. J. Lynch

I think subsection (2) of Section 8 meets this point.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Question proposed : " That Section 4 stand part of the Bill."

Major de Valera

This section refers to the manner and particulars of registration. What is the position supposing there is need for, say, a number of business names? To be specific, subsection (3) provides that any person carrying on the business of publishing a newspaper must register. I presume that " person " includes body corporate. Very often, such people may be publishing more than one newspaper. There may be a question of two or three registrations. I am not clear whether, under Section 4, these are all effected in one transaction or whether there should be three separate registration transactions in that case.

Mr. J. Lynch

I do not know if it would matter so long as he registers all the relevant names. If he publishes three newspapers, he would have to register three names and that does not involve any change in the law.

Major de Valera

It is only a procedural point—whether there would be three separate registrations or one? Where a business is carried on under two or more businesss names, each of these business names must be registered?

Mr. J. Lynch

By definition " business name " includes the title of a newspaper. Subsection (2) states that where a business is carried on under two or more business names, each of those business names must be stated. If you read " the title of the newspaper " instead of " business names ", you must register them all.

Question put and agreed to.

Amendment No. 5 not moved.

Section 5 agreed to.