We have a quorum now and we start consideration of section 37 under which hunting by night is restricted.
SECTION 37.
Question proposed: " That section stand part of the Bill."
Cavan): Very briefly, the purpose of the section is to eliminate the undesirable activity of hunting by night. Night is defined as the period beginning one hour after sunset and ending one hour before sunrise, except in relation to woodcock where it is defined as sunset to sunrise.
I got representations from the Clare Regional Game Council. They claim this section would make flighting of woodcock illegal and that the section should be changed somewhat.
There is an exception in regard to woodcock where night is defined as from sunset to sunrise. In regard to other birds, night is defined as the period beginning one hour after sunset and ending one hour before sunrise. Woodcock are given an extra two hour's rest because of flights which take place around sunrise and sunset. The extra couple of hours is necessary, as the Deputy will understand, for their protection.
They claim this flighting is very specialised. It is prohibited under the section.
My technical advisers tell me there is excessive shooting pressure on woodcock, and particularly on their morning and evening flights which take place around sunrise and sunset, and that this is unfair to the birds. They are not all that plentiful.
Would you not feel this is one of the easiest ways to shoot woodcock? They come on a known pattern of flight. They are practically sitting birds. This is a protective measure because we have very limited stocks as the Deputy knows.
Yes.
I accept that representations have been made to Deputy Daly by one game council but my advisers tell me that, having consulted the general body of game councils, they are satisfied the proposal is very reasonable.
How am I to know what is the hour of sunset and sunrise?
It is prescribed for various things. Long ago we used to be prosecuted for having no lights on our bicycles. It is set out by statute.
The person is obliged to familiarise himself with that. Does the Minister think this is hoping for too much, or that everybody will be so interested that they will do that? It would not require special publication of a notice under this legislation indicating to people——
It will be part of our general publicity campaign to draw the attention of the general public to these times. The Deputy will appreciate that, in enforcement of the law in general, if it were necessary to be continually drawing the attention——
We are providing in many sections that a person who contravenes them will be guilty of an offence. I would hope that if there were an offence there would be no difficulty about it, and nobody claiming he did not know, or that he thought there should be notices in local papers, or that he should be notified.
I understand that in the daily papers the time of sunset and sunrise is given every day of the week.
It is in respect of a table which gives the weather. I do not know whether that is given in the local papers or not.
As an item of general information.
This is not a major point. I do not think there is any obligation on any citizen of Ireland to be literate. Supposing he does not read it? Supposing it is not in his local paper? We are concerned about where we indicate that something is an offence. The Minister would have more knowledge of the ways of legal men than I. Could a solicitor ably and correctly defend somebody——
Ignorantia legis neminem excusat.
Tigim é sin.
I would go one bit further and say, if it were necessary to establish in court that somebody knew the law, you could never enforce it. The whole law system would break up.
The Minister is happy that it is not necessary to put it in local papers.
It might be considered necessary to put in a definition for that purpose, a definition section just to copperfasten it. Would the Minister consider that? There is a definition of various words.
I will have a think about it.
In relation to subsection (1) (b) again the Clare Regional Game Council feel this subsection will allow the shooting of wild duck and geese for 24 hours. Is this correct?
That is under special licence
Other than wild duck and wild geese. That means that wild duck and wild geese can be shot 24 hours a day. Is that right?
That has been the position to date at any rate. As regards flighting by night, you can do it by moonlight, but you would want to be very expert to get them.
This concerns the flighting of wood-cock and I understand they are numerable and will be vulnerable.
Does the Minister think something should be done about this?
No. I am advised it is not necessary.
The Minister would have enough power under the Act to restrict the hours.
Could the Minister say the circumstances in which he would issue licences to hunt by night protected wild animals?
Subsection (2) exempts from the general prohibition night hunting of wild birds and wild animals under licence from the Minister mainly for educational, research or scientific purposes.
Would it be possible to put that into the Bill?
". . . hunting wild birds pursuant to and in accordance with a licence granted by the Minister under section 22 (7) of this Act for a purpose mentioned in paragraph (a) or (d) of that section. . .". Everything is spelled out there.
Question put and agreed to.