Amendments Nos. 20, 22 and 23 are cognate and may be debated together.
SECTION 45.
Cavan): I move amendment No. 20:
In page 36, subsection (1), line 22, to delete "or purchase for resale" and substitute ", purchase for resale, or engage in taxidermy in respect of".
The Committee will remember that when discussing amendment No. 1, I adverted to these consequential amendments to section 45. Section 45 provides that, with certain exceptions, a person may not sell, keep for sale, purchase for resale or be in possession of protected wild birds or protected wild birds or protected wild animals unless he is a licensed wildlife dealer.
The intention is to replace section 20 of the Game Preservation Act, 1930 by extending its game dealer licensing provisions to embrace dealers in all species of wild birds and wild animals protected under the Bill. The purpose of these amendments is to remove any doubt that taxidermists will be required to be licensed as wildlife dealers.
Amendment agreed to.
I move amendment No. 21:
In page 37, subsection (8) (a), to delete “so” from line 13.
Section 45, as I mentioned in dealing with other amendments, provides that, with certain reasonable exceptions a person may not sell, keep for sale, purchase for resale or have in his possession protected wild animals unless he is a licensed wildlife dealer.
This amendment covers a very fine technical point in relation to a person who lawfully acquires protected species, dead or alive, from a person who has lawfully acquired them, either before or after the commencement of this section. A simple example would be a customer who buys game from a licensed wildlife dealer and is then technically in possession of protected species. This amendment is regarded as necessary to prevent a technical breach of the law in such cases.
Amendment agreed to.
I move amendment No. 22:
In page 37, subsection (10), to insert ", except in relation to taxidermy," after "shall" in line 27.
Amendment agreed to.
I move amendment No. 23:
In page 37, subsection (10), to insert ", and in relation to taxidermy the said references in this section shall be construed as including references to the skin, plumage or any other part of such a bird or animal" after "animal" in line 28.
Amendment agreed to.
Question proposed: "That section 45, as amended, stand part of the Bill."
The purpose of section 45 is to establish that, with certain necessary exceptions, only a licensed wildlife dealer shall have in his possession, sell, keep for sale or purchase for resale protected wild birds or protected wild animals, whether alive or dead.
The expression "business of wildlife dealing" is defined in section 2 (3) as "the business of buying for resale any protected wild birds or protected wild animals". This is to make it clear that whereas "wildlife" is defined for purposes of the Bill as meaning "fauna and flora", in this group of sections—sections 45 to 50—and wherever else in the text of the Bill there is a reference to "wildlife dealer", the term "wildlife" is confined to protected fauna. Subsection (1) establishes the basic prohibition on the sale of protected fauna, dead or living species and to the eggs of a protected bird. Subsection (2) prohibits the possession of protected species, alive or dead, by any person other than a licensed wildlife dealer; certain necessary exceptions are made to cover "incidental" possession arising in the course of lawful activities under subsections (3) and (8) and under sections 22 (5), 23 (7) (d) and 42. The subsection is essentially aimed at the poacher.
Subsection (3) makes exceptions to the blanket prohibition on the sale of protected fauna in subsection (1). Those exceptions are:
(a) sales which are solely for the purpose of propagating or improving the quality of the species,
(b) the sale of hares to a recognised coursing club—this simply maintains the status quo in the Game Preservation Act, 1930,
(c) the sale of lawfully killed protected fauna to a licensed dealer—this refers mainly to game species lawfully shot,
(d) the sale of game species—essentially game birds—to persons other than a licensed dealer but with the prior permission of the Minister.
Paragraph (d) is aimed essentially at exempting the sale of game species—essentially game birds—which have been made available by a game shooting syndicate to visiting sportsmen. The visitors shoot the game and the syndicate sell the “bag” to finance future game development. Because of the quantity of game involved at any one time it would be unrealistic to confine these sales to licensed wildlife dealers; this new provision will give the necessary outlet to these syndicates, subject, of course, to the prior permission of the Minister.
Subsections (4) and (5) are to "capture" the hotel/restaurant trade. The former provides that any hotelier, restaurant owner or the like may purchase game only from a licensed wildlife dealer. There have been allegations that poachers of game birds and deer have had free "back door" access to some such commercial outlets.
Subsection (5) obliges hoteliers, restaurateurs and such to keep appropriate records of all purchases of protected species of wild birds and animals, for inspection by “authorised persons” appointed by the Minister under section 72 (1).
Subsection (6) empowers authorised persons to inspect records of purchases of protected fauna in hotels, restaurants and so on, to ensure that there is no breach of subsection (3). Subsection (7) makes contravention of subsections (1), (2), (4) and (5) an offence.
Subsections (8) and (9) in effect list the exceptions to the prohibition in subsection (2) on possession of protected fauna. They are:
(a) where the specimen is lawfully held by a person before the passing of Act,
(b) where the specimen has been either lawfully killed or captured by the person himself or lawfully acquired from another person—otherwise than by purchase—who had lawfully killed or captured it.
Subsection (9) (a) and (b) deals with possession of a specimen of a protected species, or the eggs of a protected wild bird, which arises from anything lawfully done under a licence or a permission granted either under the Bill or under any other statute. A case in point would be the possession of protected wild birds or protected wild animals by a research worker operating under licence granted under section 22 (7) or section 23 (6).
Subsection (10) clarifies that "protected wild birds" or "protected wild animals" includes their flesh.
In regard to the manner in which we are to get the co-operation of agencies or persons in the matter of the inspection of hotels, inns and so on, have we had any consultations with the organisations catering for such places on the question of their acceptance of the need for this?
They are already subject to this form of inspection in perhaps a more limited way under the Game Preservation Act, 1930. The vast majority of hoteliers and others concerned do not engage in this sort of illicit dealing but it is essential that we have this authority today so that such people would be obliged to keep a register of fauna purchases.
I appreciate that, but I could anticipate the co-operation of the hoteliers' representative federation, whatever they are called, and in the times in which we live it is wise to indicate to people beforehand what we intend to do and to ask for their co-operation rather than simply to make the announcement and to assume they will then co-operate.
I hesitate to categorise or to classify, but it is known that hotel owners who would not have anything to do with such illicit dealings would agree readily. However, others who are engaged in such dealings have a habit of complaining about infringement of their rights and the difficulties they are being put to. Though agreement can be got on most things, this is the sort of thing you would not expect to get universal agreement on, because it is something which will infringe on somebody's thinking or rights.
With regard to our hoping to achieve what is aimed at here it is vital to have their co-operation. When we say that the legislation is to ensure that there will not be any breach we must look at the machinery which we have for such an assurance. A big hotel would have suitable cold storage facilities and somebody could go in to inspect it but in the case of the smaller guest houses or public houses the game might be kept in a kitchen or in some part of the house where it would not be so easy for the person carrying out the inspection to locate it. It would not be very easy to ensure that there is no breach of the legislation.
When the Bill becomes law we will publicise those provisions. We will bring it to the attention of the people it affects. The Bill has been on the stocks in one shape or another for a good while and it has been printed for a couple of years. I am sure its provisions are known. We have not received any representations from the hotels or the restaurants.
Does the dealer have to keep a record of transactions with hotels so that there is a check on them?
Mr. Kitt
In relation to refrigeration in hotels as a temporary container for the game, how is the check made on them?
The shooting of wild birds or animals under permit is controlled. A person engaged in wildlife dealings would be subject to the provisions of the regulations to be made under this section. If an officer goes into a hotel and finds a pheasant in the fridge and the owner says it is not his property but that it is the property of A who is occupying room B and the officer accepts that, that is the end of the matter.
Mr. Kitt
Sometimes a false impression goes out that there is provision for shooting song birds in this country. I welcome any move to stop this impression.
When this Bill becomes law game birds can be shot during the open season.
Mr. Kitt
Therefore, song birds will be protected.
There is no provision to protect woodcock and grouse.
There is. Only the wildlife people can deal in them.
There is no prohibition on the dealer to deal in them.
If I go out and shoot a woodcock I can only sell it to a wildlife dealer. I cannot go around the back roads selling it to a hotelier or a private person. If a private individual wants to buy a protected bird, he can only buy it from a wildlife dealer.
Mr. Kitt
If the owner of an hotel or guest house wants to become a wildlife dealer, how does he go about it?
There is provision later in the Bill, which we will be dealing with, which applies to such people and to the Minister for Lands.
Question put and agreed to.