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Medical Education.

Dáil Éireann Debate, Tuesday - 30 March 2004

Tuesday, 30 March 2004

Questions (73, 74)

Liam Twomey

Question:

185 Dr. Twomey asked the Minister for Education and Science if his Department still plans to make medicine and other allied health professions a postgraduate qualification; and if his Department will publish the drop-out rate of medical students in both the pre-clinical years and the clinical years. [9724/04]

View answer

Bernard Allen

Question:

265 Mr. Allen asked the Minister for Education and Science the number of Irish nationals, EU nationals and non-EU nationals in each of our medical schools; and his views on whether the number of places available to Irish nationals must be increased to cope with the future demand for doctors in the health service. [9938/04]

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Written answers

I propose to take Questions Nos. 185 and 265 together.

As the Deputy may be aware, on 24 September 2003, together with my colleague the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Martin, I announced details of the membership and terms of reference for a working group on undergraduate medical education and training which has been jointly established to make recommendations on the organisation and delivery of high quality training for doctors in Ireland.

The membership of the working group draws on a broad representation from medical academia, university, hospital and health board management and Government Department officials. The working group will examine and make recommendations on a range of aspects of medical education and training in Ireland. This will include the areas of course curriculum, teaching methods, interdisciplinary working and other issues relating to the organisation and delivery of undergraduate medical education and training.

The working group has been asked to consider and provide advice on issues arising from the recent Higher Education Authority report that recommended a move to all graduate entry for medicine and other health science disciplines. I have signalled my support for the broad thrust of that report which was commissioned by the HEA, at my request, on foot of a commitment in the programme for Government to address the issue of the distortionary impact of these high points courses on the points system.

The report recommends that students should undertake an undergraduate programme of their choice in any area before taking a decision to enter medicine or one of the other health science disciplines. The other programmes in question are physiotherapy, occupational therapy, speech and language therapy, dentistry, veterinary medicine, pharmacy and radiography, all of which currently require extremely high points for entry. The initial consideration by the recently established working group of the detailed implementation issues that arise for medical education will also inform my approach to the proposed later introduction of changes for the other health disciplines. I expect to receive the recommendations of the working group later this year.

On the number of Irish, EU and non-EU national students in each of our medical schools, the latest information available from the Higher Education Authority is as follows:

UCC Overall Enrolments 2002-03

Male

Female

Total

Ireland

120

227

347

Other EU

5

1

6

Non EU

97

70

167

Total

222

298

520

UCD Overall Enrolments 2002-03

Male

Female

Total

Ireland

232

392

624

Other EU

19

23

42

Non EU

193

193

386

Total

444

608

1052

NUIG Overall Enrolments 2002-03

Male

Female

Total

Ireland

102

227

329

Other EU

5

11

16

Non EU

100

78

178

Total

207

316

523

TCD* Overall Enrolments 2002-03

Male

Female

Total

Ireland

152

218

370

Other EU

Non EU

149

136

285

Total

301

354

655

*It is not possible for TCD to differentiate between those students from Ireland and the rest of the EU on the basis of fee status; therefore the data is presented on the basis of EU and Non-EU only
RCSI overall entrants 2002-03

Male

Female

Total

Ireland

96

127

223

Other EU

27

15

42

Non EU

539

441

980

Total

662

583

1245

The projection model used in the report of the national task force on medical staffing — the Hanly Report — suggests a need for an average undergraduate intake per year of 767 students to supply the numbers required for the consultant-provided service proposed in the report. The working group on undergraduate medical education and training that has been charged with the task of making recommendations relating to the organisation and delivery of undergraduate medical education and training in Ireland will, inter alia, have regard to the recommendations contained in the Hanly report.

On the question of the drop-out rate for students studying medicine, the specific detailed information requested by the Deputy is not readily available. However, the HEA commissioned report, A Study of Non-Completion in Undergraduate University Courses, published in 2001 found that the non-completion levels for students in veterinary-medicine and dentistry courses was 7.3%. This was well below the university average of 16.8%

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