Enda Kenny
Question:5 Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach the costs which accrued to his Department in respect of the Moriarty tribunal during May 2005; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [19039/05]
View answerWednesday, 22 June 2005
Questions (5, 6)
Trevor Sargent
Question:6 Mr. Sargent asked the Taoiseach the cost to date to his Department of the Moriarty tribunal; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21055/05]
View answerOral answers (13 contributions)
I propose to take Questions Nos. 5 and 6 together.
The costs my Department incurred in respect of the Moriarty tribunal during May 2005 amounted to €511,930. The day to day costs for the tribunal provided for in my Department's Estimate for 2005 amounts to €4 million. However, provision of an additional €6.5 million has also been made to cover costs such as report publication and some element of award of legal costs in the event that the tribunal completes its work this year. The overall estimate for 2005 is therefore €10.552 million.
The total costs my Department incurred in respect of this tribunal since 1997 to 31 May 2005 is €20,131,318. This includes fees paid to counsel for the tribunal and administration costs incurred to date since its establishment. The total payment made to the legal team was €15,102,168 up to 31 May 2005.
Somebody is doing well out of it. This the ninth year of the Moriarty tribunal and we have not had an interim report. Is the Taoiseach satisfied it will complete its work by the date scheduled for its completion? Is he satisfied the lower legal fee structure will take effect on the day it is intended to do so? It is hoped the possibility of its continuing beyond January 2006 has not been considered, and if it does will the lower legal fee apply in respect of the Taoiseach's Department and all others?
The date was agreed in the negotiations that took place last year with the outgoing Minister for Finance and the Attorney General. The date for the Moriarty tribunal report is 11 January 2006. As I understand it, that is still the date to which we are working. As the Deputy said, if that is not achieved, the new fee structure arrangement will come into place on the 12th.
I take it the new fee structure is included in the reform of tribunals legislation. The Taoiseach referred to the 12th. Which date is the Taoiseach talking about?
It is 12 January next. The due date is 11 January, but if the report is not completed and work continues, it will revert to the new fee structure arrangement.
Given that the Committee of Public Accounts has estimated that the State faces a bill of approximately €800 million for witnesses to various tribunals, has the Taoiseach had any indication or estimate of costs in respect of the Moriarty tribunal? Aside from the costs he has given us, does he have information on witnesses' expenses? Has an estimation been done on that or an indication given?
I have answered the question on the fees.
I am talking about witnesses' expenses. Does the Taoiseach have an indication of what will be added to the fees?
As I understand it, the additional provision of €6.5 million will cover costs of report, publication and some element of award of legal costs. In the normal course of events that would be included in the expenses. Provision has been made for that.
I know we cannot discuss matters raised at the tribunal but does the Taoiseach believe it might be appropriate now for the Government to include in the legislative programme for the next term or next year a Revenue Act to guarantee the formal independence of the Revenue?
Under existing legislation the Revenue Commissioners are totally independent of the Department, never mind the system. If there is a requirement to strengthen that, I presume it could be included in a Finance Bill. If some proposal was forthcoming from the tribunal it could be done in a Finance Bill.
The Mahon tribunal has awarded costs to most witnesses at this juncture, at huge cost to the taxpayer. Recognising that there is also a massive bonanza for members of the legal profession, has this setting of costs in the Mahon case set a precedent in regard to the Moriarty tribunal? Can we anticipate a similar decision in that tribunal?
The last time the Taoiseach answered this sequence of questions he indicated the dates from which the new fees would apply in the various tribunals and advised that they were all negotiated individually. What is the explanation for the huge difference between, for example, the Abbeylara tribunal where the new fee comes in this month and those for the Mahon tribunal which, according to the last answer, do not kick in until March 2007? Why does it take so long for some to change to the new fee arrangements while others appear to be able to make the change very quickly? This is of concern to all taxpayers and I would appreciate an informative answer.
In fairness to the tribunals, when the discussions took place and the then Minister for Finance, Charlie McCreevy, announced the changes he was making, account had to be taken of the outstanding modules of the tribunals' work that were already under way. Changes were made and we passed the legislation in this House. Some of the tribunals had a much longer timescale but others were due to continue to 2011 and beyond, but the changes we made in the terms of reference meant that the timescale was tightened. In making those changes we came to an understanding to try to tidy up the work in that the existing modules must be completed. That is the reason. They had to finish the work that was ongoing and if it continued after that, there would be a different position. A number of the tribunals will finish this year or early next year. The Morris tribunal will continue to September 2006 while the Mahon tribunal will go on until March 2007.