Dáil Éireann Debate, Wednesday - 22 June 2005
7 Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the outcome of the May 2005 meeting of the cross-departmental team on infrastructure and public private partnerships; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [19040/05]
View answer8 Mr. Rabbitte asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the results of the meeting of the cross-departmental committee of infrastructure and public private partnership held during May 2005; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [20740/05]
View answer9 Mr. Sargent asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the outcome of the meeting of the cross-departmental team on infrastructure and public private partnerships in May 2005; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21059/05]
View answerI propose to take Questions Nos. 7 to 9, inclusive, together.
The cross-departmental team on housing, infrastructure and PPPs last met on 25 May. The main agenda items were ports, the CLÁR programme and North-South co-operation on infrastructure. The Department of Communications, Marine and Natural Resources made a presentation to the team on ports policy and capacity. The Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs also gave a presentation which focused on infrastructure delivery under the CLÁR programme. There was a general discussion on North-South co-operation in infrastructure. It is envisaged that a presentation on North-South co-operation will be given in the autumn.
First, will the Taoiseach expand on the report by the Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs in respect of the projects under the CLÁR programme? What were the main elements of the discussion that took place? Second, will the Taoiseach indicate whether there are further proposals under the existing PPP structure for developments in the education sector? The Taoiseach will be aware that following the completion of a number of schools, this gave rise to some concern expressed by the Comptroller and Auditor General about the cost to the Exchequer in the longer term. I assume the cross-departmental team on infrastructure would have considered the implications of that and perhaps the Taoiseach will indicate if there are further proposals in the education sector and if changes are proposed to that structure for the provision of education facilities under the PPP regime?
On that issue, the Minister for Finance has undertaken a review of the PPPs. He has given quite a lot of time to listening to the various participants and stakeholders in PPPs from different perspectives. Many of them felt there were too few projects that were too costly and some of the international companies said that the cost of doing their presentations and then losing out under the process was too burdensome, and that is the reason they were not engaging as much as possible. The Minister has finished the review and I understand he is to make some changes in that regard. I am not sure of the timescale involved — I was not party to the meetings — but I am aware he has examined that. Education is one of the areas on which there are different views. Some people say it was marvellous value and others argue the contrary.
On the CLÁR programme, there has been a clear commitment in An Agreed Programme for Government to continue with and review the programme. It is a good example of a programme that delivers a significant community impact relative to what is not high overall expenditure. There are 20 measures in operation under the programme, including roads, water, sewerage, sports, community, health, communications, electricity, conversions and enhancement of village countryside and schools. The programme covers part of 18 counties and a population catchment area of 362 people, an increase of 78 since the programme started. Over the period, €71 million has been invested in the programme. The Exchequer provision for 2005 is €13.7 million.
The discussions in respect of renewing the social contract will probably commence towards the end of the year. One of the major promotional points of the last agreement was the provision of an additional 10,000 social and affordable housing units. Will the Taoiseach or the cross-departmental team make a guesstimate as to how many of those houses will be lived in or completed by the end of the social contract, Sustaining Progress? With regard to the Taoiseach's cross-Border references, are any specific new cross-Border projects contemplated as a result of these discussions?
The group made a very positive report on housing, indicating that all of the land and sites have been fully put forward. The roll-out of those houses is moving on apace, comprising something like 3,500 units between this year and next year. In addition, many sites are now rolling out. To be frank, the quick way to complete this process is through land swaps. This happened with the Harcourt Street site and another eight or ten sites are also under consideration. It is a quick way of building the houses.
At the last meeting I had with the group reporting to me on this issue, chaired by Des Geraghty, the developers stated it takes five years from the time they buy a site to the time the first residents move in. That is the process in the private sector, which is too slow. If we have the sites and are prepared to swap them, we should do so. We would then have the houses in three or six months, which would provide the best value. There is a process for achieving this. A complicated process has been worked out to achieve value for money. However, it is a quick way, rather than waiting for years for developments. The Harcourt Street site was a good deal and a number of other sites are being tendered for. It was a very positive report.
There are a number of issues with regard to cross-Border roads, which are now getting much attention. Our Northern friends are taking a lot of interest because they see the infrastructural changes in the South. The particular project we discussed at the meeting is the Dundalk to Ballymascanlon project, which is nearing completion. I understand the Ballymascanlon to Newry part of the project is due to get underway this year, which will be hugely significant. We are also looking at issues surrounding the State's investment in City of Derry Airport which, interestingly, has been welcomed by everybody although some might have complained about such an investment in the past. We are considering other areas of co-operation.
At the May meeting, was there any hint of awareness about the challenges facing the country in regard to climate change, which the G8 will focus on in the days ahead, or in regard to the price of oil, which will soon reach $60 plus a barrel? For example, the cross-departmental committee is able to match that with its plans and spending targets being based on 80% of transport being road dependent. Is there any indication of a need to reassess this or to prepare for a post-fossil fuel economy in the long-term or medium-term? Will that have an impact not just on transportation but on planning, which is currently car focused? Is the committee simply following what was done previously and doing more of it, or is it able to think ahead and plan internationally to free us from this dependency on fossil fuel, on which we are more dependent than any other EU country?
With regard to the cross-Border contacts indicated by the Taoiseach and cross-Border roads, will the Taoiseach note that in my constituency, we still have two cross——
Has the Deputy a question?
I am asking whether this opportunity will address those remaining cross-Border roads that have not reopened despite the systematic road reopening programme adopted some years ago. Two crossings in my constituency have not been re-established.
To broaden the understanding of infrastructure from roads alone, will the most important flagship project in regard to infrastructural development arising out of the Good Friday Agreement, namely, the Ulster canal, be addressed in the course of these further contacts?
I assure Deputy Sargent the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government takes all issues into account and regularly reports on them. The Deputy should pursue the issues with the Minister, Deputy Roche. The Department is at all times considering new ways, and considering climatic conditions and land and spatial planning issues. On all of those issues, the committee is not just continuing but looking forward. For example, it seeks to move forward the western corridor, and is looking to rail initiatives and trying to expand——
What of the Department of Transport?
If our population grows to 5 million, in particular if 2 million of the population are in the greater Dublin area, the use of rail will be the only way to go in the next 15 to 20 years. All of those issues are being considered.
The committee is focused on major infrastructural issues. Other issues can be pursued with local authorities in the relevant areas. County Monaghan has been served well by the roads programme, which provided bypasses and roads all over the place. A decade ago there was a problem with roads and potholes in that area but these have been consigned to the history books.
I asked on closed cross-Border roads.
Or the odd culvert.
The case of particular roads should be taken up with the local council.
The issue has been raised many times. What of the Ulster canal?
The Ulster canal is one of the topics I always discussed with my good friend, David Trimble. He was a great advocate of it. It is good to see Deputy Ó Caoláin is continuing with that, despite David having moved on.
It is something else we shared.
I was very supportive of that long-started and positive project. I am not sure who we will link up with on the Northern side now that David is gone.
