Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin
Question:1 Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his address to the United Nations in New York; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21598/06]
View answerWednesday, 21 June 2006
Questions (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16)
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin
Question:2 Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his meeting with the Secretary General of the United Nations Mr. Kofi Annan; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21599/06]
View answer
Enda Kenny
Question:3 Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his attendance at the UN summit on HIV-AIDS; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21645/06]
View answerEnda Kenny
Question:4 Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent visit to New York; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21646/06]
View answer
Trevor Sargent
Question:5 Mr. Sargent asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent attendance at the United Nations conference on AIDS; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21669/06]
View answerTrevor Sargent
Question:6 Mr. Sargent asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent official visit to New York; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21670/06]
View answerTrevor Sargent
Question:7 Mr. Sargent asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his meeting with the Governor of Aceh, Indonesia, Mr. Mustafa Abubakar; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21673/06]
View answerEnda Kenny
Question:8 Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach if the agenda for the June meeting of the European Council has been finalised; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21679/06]
View answer
Pat Rabbitte
Question:9 Mr. Rabbitte asked the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on his address to the United Nations conference on AIDS; the discussions he had with political leaders or United Nations officials during his recent visit to the United Nations; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21723/06]
View answer
John Gormley
Question:10 Mr. Gormley asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his speech to the UN high level conference on AIDS; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [23161/06]
View answer
Joe Higgins
Question:11 Mr. J. Higgins asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his attendance at the recent United Nations conference on AIDS in New York. [23313/06]
View answerJoe Higgins
Question:12 Mr. J. Higgins asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his meeting with the United Nations Secretary General, Mr. Kofi Annan. [23315/06]
View answerJoe Higgins
Question:13 Mr. J. Higgins asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his meeting with Mr. Mustafa Abubakar, the Governor of Aceh. [23316/06]
View answerJoe Higgins
Question:14 Mr. J. Higgins asked the Taoiseach the agenda for the June European Council summit. [23317/06]
View answerPat Rabbitte
Question:15 Mr. Rabbitte asked the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on the outcome of the EU summit in Brussels. [23539/06]
View answerPat Rabbitte
Question:16 Mr. Rabbitte asked the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on meetings he had with other leaders on the margins of the EU summit in Brussels. [23540/06]
View answerOral answers (32 contributions)
I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 16, inclusive, together.
I received a personal invitation from the United Nations Secretary General, Kofi Annan, to attend the United Nations special summit on AIDS in New York in early June. The Secretary General expressed his gratitude for the important advocacy role Ireland has played with our European partners and for the significant resources we have provided to reverse the trends of the epidemic.
I had attended the first UN special session on HIV-AIDS in New York five years ago. At the time, Ireland, with the other member states, adopted a declaration of commitment on HIV-AIDS. In addition, I committed Ireland to increasing spending on the fight against HIV-AIDS to €30 million a year.
The purpose of this year's high level meeting was to review the progress achieved in realising the targets set out five years ago. The meeting was attended by Heads of State and Government and representatives from civil society and the private sector. I was accompanied by the Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs with responsibility for development co-operation, Deputy Conor Lenihan.
In my address to the General Assembly, I stressed that the fight against AIDS remains one of the greatest challenges of our generation. I reiterated Ireland's commitment, made in September 2005, to increase Government expenditure on HIV and other poverty-related diseases to €100 million per year. I also reiterated the commitment of the Irish Government to reach the UN target of spending 0.7% of gross national product on official development assistance by 2012. This major scaling up of the Irish aid programme will allow Ireland to be at the forefront of the fight against HIV-AIDS.
I had a bilateral meeting with Secretary General, Kofi Annan. I presented him with a report of the Irish Government's response to the challenge of HIV-AIDS in developing countries from 2001 to 2006. This report clearly demonstrates that Ireland has lived up to the commitments we made five years ago. I stressed Ireland's determination to remain in the vanguard of the global response to HIV-AIDS. I also mentioned the Government's intention to publish Ireland's first White Paper on development co-operation.
The Secretary General thanked me for attending the high level meeting on HIV-AIDS and for our continued strong support for the UN campaign against the disease. He said that the UN could have no better partner than Ireland and thanked me for our efforts at EU level. He remarked that much had been achieved in the global campaign against HIV-AIDS but an effort was still needed to sensitise more world leaders.
The Secretary General also expressed gratitude for Ireland's willingness to extend the participation of our peacekeeping troops in Liberia until 2007. He hoped our commitment to peacekeeping operations in Africa would encourage other western countries to follow suit because many countries have been reluctant to send peacekeeping troops in recent years. I said that the Government would consider any request to send troops to Darfur in Sudan but we would not be in a position to do so until our mission in Liberia had ended.
The Secretary General and I also discussed international issues, including Iran and the Middle East. I expressed our full support for the efforts of the EU 3 to achieve a diplomatic settlement to the current dispute with Iran. The Secretary General stressed the importance that all sides, including the US and Iran, must come to the negotiating table without any preconditions.
On the Middle East, the Secretary General welcomed the efforts of President Abbas to secure the agreement of Hamas to negotiate with Israel on the basis of two states founded on the 1967 borders. He also expressed concern at the current serious humanitarian situation in the occupied territories.
While in New York, I attended a business lunch with senior Irish-American executives of US companies. I also attended various business related events organised by Enterprise Ireland.
I received a courtesy call from His Excellency, Mr. Mustafa Abubakar, the Governor of Aceh in Indonesia, on 17 May. It was a very brief but cordial meeting. Our discussion focused on the devastation of Indonesia by the tsunami of 2004 and the subsequent recovery work. The governor thanked Ireland for our generous contribution to the relief and recovery effort, and the ongoing contacts.
I did not attend the June European Council owing to the death of former Taoiseach, Charles J. Haughey. The Minister for Foreign Affairs attended the Council in my place. As I will make a statement on the Council shortly, I will at this stage merely give a summary account of its proceedings.
The June European Council considered a wide range of issues on the European agenda. In particular, it examined how Europe listens to and works for its citizens and how the future of European debate and the period of reflection on the European Constitution are to be carried forward. It is not possible to divorce the debate on the European Constitution from the day-to-day business of the Union. If we can convince people that their daily concerns are being met, if the broad economic climate in the Union improves and confidence recovers, and if we can create more jobs and give hope to the unemployed, the prospects for the European Constitution will improve.
Will the Taoiseach note that I welcome his commitment at the United Nations in New York to increase Government spending on development aid to tackle HIV and other communicable diseases? Will he confirm that it is the Government's intention to live up to the new commitment of ensuring the delivery of 0.7% of GNP for overseas development aid by 2012? As he knows, the earlier commitment was to have been by 2007?
As part of that new commitment, will the Taoiseach undertake to exclude from the calculation of 0.7% of GNP the money the Government devotes to debt relief? Will he note that I am aware that it is permissible to allocate money in this way and that I made the point in the House only last week that it is objectionable? Is he aware that many of the international aid organisations have highlighted that money is being allocated by governments, including the Irish Government, to pay for the administrative costs of debt relief? Does he not agree that it would be more appropriate for the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund——
Deputy Ó Caoláin is moving outside the scope of the questions submitted to the Taoiseach.
——to bear these costs because these are the agencies who have saddled poor countries with these debts?
It does not arise out of these questions.
If we are to continue to pay it in the absence of the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund taking up their responsibilities, will the Taoiseach indicate to the House his willingness to exclude this significant sum from the overall calculation?
Does the Taoiseach agree that it is an obscenity that some €300 billion has been spent by the United States on its wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and that if these moneys——
I ask Deputy Ó Caoláin to return to the questions submitted.
——had been directed to tackle HIV and other communicable diseases in the world, a greater service to humanity would have been achieved?
On the first two questions, I reiterate our commitment to increase expenditure on HIV and other poverty related diseases to €100 million per year. This is a target we can achieve. It is a considerable support from this country to the HIV campaign. We are to the forefront of the campaign and recognised as such for the efforts that we, as a small country, have put in. Through our missionaries working in Africa, through our non-governmental organisations working in so many countries, through Irish Aid officials and through the taxpayers' contribution which broadly has support, we are seen as being a leader in this regard. Our making such a contribution over the past five years has given us a strong leadership role in Europe and it has been recognised throughout the UN organisations and in the European Union that we hold that position. It is a role of which we all should be proud and which we should seek to maintain.
I reiterate the commitment that we will reach the UN target of 0.7% of GNP on official development assistance by 2012. We can do that. We could not reach the earlier date but we have still done better than practically any country, perhaps with the exception of Norway which has sufficient oil reserves to allow it to do it but to which I give credit for what it has done.
Our rate of increase — this year we are contributing 0.5% — is an enormous contribution by the public to overseas development aid, and is recognised as such. Ireland is held in high regard in the UN and in the countries in need of this aid. In that, along with the Clinton effort in Mozambique and other countries where Ireland has a strong leadership role, we play a significant part.
I have been dealing with the ODA issue for many years and, unlike most countries, Ireland is extremely fair in calculating such aid. We only provide untied aid or direct funding for relief. Many countries use a broad definition regarding what can go into ODA and they tie aid to business contracts and so on. Ireland does not do that. Nobody can criticise what Ireland includes in these figures. I have criticised the way other countries give relief and tie it to business arrangements and contracts. This country does not engage in such practices and we should never be apologetic about how we calculate ODA.
With regard to debt relief, if a country is saddled with a debt and the debt is removed, that helps the country because it does not have to put its limited income towards repaying the debt. That is clearly classified as aid and that cannot be taken out of the figures.
But there is no practical return.
If such countries do not have to repay debts, they can use the money they save for their health and social programmes and, therefore, there is a direct return. I do not agree with including other costs, but that is a fair and legitimate cost. I do not agree with the tied aid cost or other imaginative mathematical equations used by other countries.
I thank the Deputy for his support in this area. The challenges ahead are huge. The figures are still enormous, though controls have been implemented and successes achieved in some countries. The epidemic among young parents has resulted in a significant number of orphans in sub-Saharan Africa and other parts of the world. Ireland has tended to concentrate its effort in Africa and this epidemic is a major problem. It will take many years of work and fighting to make progress on the drugs issue. However, Ireland is in a good position for the reasons I outlined, not least the work of our missionaries and NGOs. It is an area in which we should continue to give a leadership role.
I agree with much of what the Taoiseach said in respect of Irish missionaries and NGOs and the work they do. A suggestion was brought to my attention, which might be of interest to the Taoiseach and the Minister for Defence, who is also present. One of the problems people have is with the translation of money they donate and funding provided by the Government into action on HIV-AIDS or whatever and its practical effect. I recently had a conversation with Captain Mark Mellet of the LE Eithne, which has just returned from Argentina and he made a practical suggestion, given that the Government must consider the replacement of defence vessels over the next few years. The LE Eithne has a fully equipped theatre and can accommodate up to 200 people. Both Captain Mellet and Dr. James O’Reilly, former president of the IMO, have pointed out that many Irish medics would like to use their expertise in providing public service internationally and that could be provided in Liberia, Madagascar and so on without the normal restrictions within which the Minster for Defence must operate in sending a battalion of soldiers abroad, setting up a camp and so on.
The Government could consider such an opportunity. A facility could be provided without restriction, which would allow hundreds of doctors to give ten days, three weeks or a month of their time on board the ship to vaccinate and treat people with HIV-AIDS in a foreign port. It is a practical suggestion the Minister for Defence might consider. It would also deal with the direct evidence being transmitted back here publicly of how people's money is being used to practical effect in Africa. As the Taoiseach rightly said, Ireland concentrates on Africa and that is an added dimension the Minister for Defence and the Government could consider. A number of doctors, nurses and other medical professionals would like to avail of such a possibility. I acknowledge that a number of them help out in various capacities currently but this suggestion would mean a ship would be provided and Ireland could add a new dimension to its leadership while having practical effect in the treatment of HIV-AIDS.
I hugely support volunteerism at home and abroad. All our main NGOs constantly seek volunteers and leave arrangements are made for those who travel. I would broadly support examining anything that helps in this regard. In principle, without examining the practicality, I favour anything that encourages people and makes it easier for them to provide their expertise for a period abroad. A number of arrangements are in place whereby people can get leave, particularly if there is a famine or epidemic. Members of the Defence Forces Reserve might be interested in travelling too. I referred to Darfur in my original reply, where there are major humanitarian issues and the UN is stretched. The organisation wants to move forward. Kofi Annan pressed me to engage the Irish Army in Darfur to give a lead to other countries. However, while we could do that, it is only a few months since he asked me to retain the mission in Liberia but the Army wanted to finish there. Next year, if we can find an alternative arrangement for Liberia, we can look to Darfur.
It is a major life experience for people to serve on these missions. The State should do everything it can to give people that professional experience. Many voluntary groups have pulled together. For example, the Tracy Piggot Sports Group and Niall Mellon bring people together to travel to Africa, separate from the NGOs, and they should be facilitated. They do an amount of good for the communities involved but they also find it to be a significant experience. Mr. Kader Asmal paid me a courtesy call a few weeks back and he said that stories of the Irish doing this work receives huge coverage and attention, mainly because very few other countries do it, which is surprising. We will do whatever we can to facilitate that type of effort. The Minister for Defence has been listening here and he said he will examine the Deputy's suggestion.
The value of the suggestion is that the ship is a self-contained unit that can be tied up at a pier. The Minister for Defence does not need to have diplomatic relations with the country concerned nor does he need to provide facilities. Were the situation to get out of hand the ship could turn round in an instant and come home. A combination of the State wanting to do this and the medical professionals being willing to assist could be outstanding for the country.
We will definitely examine this.
I thank the Taoiseach.
What is the budget for the campaign to combat stigma and discrimination against people with HIV-AIDS in Ireland? Who is responsible for running the campaign? Have there been discussions with the relevant voluntary organisations?
In recent years, a number of the relevant groups and bodies have raised this issue directly with me. They pointed out to me the areas of discrimination and their difficulties in receiving treatment. In the main such treatment is provided through the hospital network. It is the policy of the Department of Health and Children and, by extension, of the HSE, that arrangements should be made for their treatment, that the individuals who deal with them should have more sensitivity training, and if necessary, that the patients can be assisted by receiving counselling. The groups made the point that while they are obliged to receive the treatment, it could be perceived that they are discriminated against, or made to feel that this is a terrible disaster which isolates them. The groups do not complain of the treatment but about the perception. In this regard, I am told by the Department that the hospitals do not consider this to be a difficult area.
While a resource issue exists, it is not a major financial issue. People are quite happy with it. The proposed improvements might require differing clinic times or facilities. Moreover, one should avoid locating an AIDS clinic in the middle of an outpatient clinic, where people are made to feel they are sitting there in isolation. This issue simply requires some sensitivity towards individuals, who badly need treatment, as many are in poor health.
The groups made a good case and the agencies here have been receptive to it. This is achievable without too much difficulty.
On foot of the summit on AIDS, what kind of perspective was put forward with regard to, for example, the 26 million people in Africa who live with HIV-AIDS, of whom only 1% receive anti-AIDS drugs? Internationally, what kind of perspective was outlined in respect of the 40 million or so people with AIDS, of whom perhaps 5% receive anti-retroviral drugs treatment? Was a perspective offered as to when the resources might be made available in order that each human being who needs it is provided with treatment, which has dramatically prolonged life for those suffering in richer countries?
When the Taoiseach spoke, did he allude to the fact that a fraction of the armaments spending of the major countries could provide this treatment and could create a significant impetus to wipe out AIDS? Did he complain about that?
As for the Taoiseach's meeting with Mr. Mustafa Abubakar, the governor of Aceh, Indonesia, did he discuss the human rights situation in Aceh in the wake of the decades-long insurgency, the demand for self-determination and some shaky agreements which have been made more recently as to what is the position of the Indonesian Government regarding the guarantee of full human and political rights to the people of Aceh?
Deputy Joe Higgins is correct with regard to armaments in Africa. Five civil wars are underway there at present, and in their absence, the amount of available resources in the affected countries and in the region generally would massively help their development. This has been an ongoing issue for the past ten or 20 years, since the early 1980s. It has been an issue since AIDS ravished these countries, from 1982 onwards.
However, greater co-operation exists in this respect than was evident five years ago, or than was visible at some of the World Bank conferences which I attended more than ten years ago. At least, the African nations, groups and bodies are making an effort to deal with these issues, to help one another and to move away from such wars. While I would like to be able to state they are making considerable progress, at least they appear to be making some progress. An enormous amount of money is involved. While everyone makes this point, it probably goes over the head of most of those who are involved in the various wars and related activities.
There are a number of issues, including the availability of drugs. The objective is to be able to acquire drugs at prices which are affordable to such people. The only way to do so quickly is through the co-operation of the drug companies and member states. This has improved dramatically and while it is costly, it remains the best course of action. This has helped and stabilised the situation in many countries.
However, this does not really reverse the enormous numbers of people who suffer from HIV-AIDS. The figures throughout most of the states, with a few exceptions, are still frightening. The Irish aid effort is to try to pick individual places, such as the Mozambique programme, and Kenya, and to try to have an impact on them. However, a more dramatic impact could be made if everyone gave a fair slice of resources.
As for my meeting with the governor of Aceh, I did not have a long discussion with him. They are making some progress with the Indonesians and are hopeful that, with much regional assistance, further progress will be made.
Most of my discussions pertained to the humanitarian effort and to the number of Irish groups which have direct involvement there and which not only contributed aid but which still provide help and assistance. However, the Achenese have a sense that in the aftermath of this terrible tragedy and the devastation it caused, they are making some progress on their political agenda. Nevertheless, they remain in a frightful position. It will take them a number of years to stabilise the tsunami's effects. Obviously, they were thankful to Ireland for the relief and recovery effort and appealed for such efforts to be continued for some time.
I apologise for not hearing the Taoiseach's original reply. The Taoiseach is aware that he was criticised for attending the UN conference on AIDS. Does he agree that much of this criticism was unwarranted? I was glad he attended and can confirm that his speech was well received at the UN, particularly by the African nations. I was sitting beside the delegation from Lesotho, which was very happy.
Does the Deputy wish to ask a question?
I do not often get the opportunity to praise the Taoiseach——
Does the Ceann Comhairle wish to complain?
If the Ceann Comhairle wishes to complain, that is fine.
It was noticeable that many world leaders did not turn up at the UN. Does the Taoiseach agree this was regrettable? Can he explain the reluctance on the part of world leaders to take the problem of AIDS seriously? As the Taoiseach is aware, it is a major problem which has devastated Africa. Is it the case that such leaders simply bury their heads in the sand?
I thank the Deputy for his comments. I also appreciate his involvement in the meetings related to the summit.
In common with many other matters, Ireland's position in this regard is not widely understood at home. Our role has nothing to do with me personally. Ireland has played a role in this regard for the past ten years through its non-governmental organisations, religious orders and general efforts.
Unfortunately, many world leaders could not care less. They do not pay much interest to the 0.7% target or the AIDS issue. I know this because for the past decade, I have been in touch with the United Nations organisations which deal with these issues. They frequently come to Dublin and Europe and I always make a point of meeting them. A host of significant and wealthy countries do not consider this to be a major issue on their doorsteps, so —que sera. That is regrettable. I have been a plague on my colleagues in Europe for the past nine years on this issue. We made them suffer a fair bit during the Irish Presidency through the efforts which can be made during a presidency. Unfortunately, it is a problem that a number of countries do not see as a major item for the agenda. They speak about the immigration issue but ignore Africa on the other issue. They have it wrong and they are well used to listening to my view on this. Some take a different view. Some non-EU countries such as Norway and Luxembourg play a part in this. It is important that we continue trying to highlight it.
There is huge respect for Ireland in Africa. The last time we stood for a vote in the United Nations, which was to do with this type of issue, every country in Africa without exception supported Ireland. They hold in huge regard the resources we give and the respect Irish people have given for generations, at one time it was missionaries and now, increasingly, it is NGOs and many civic groups. This is not a small issue, it is a major one and this country should keep pursuing it.
The programmes in which we are involved in Mozambique have made an extraordinary impact even though we are only a small country. If bigger countries engaged, it could have an enormous impact. Otherwise, we will always be trying to stabilise the situation. In five years time there will only be slight reductions whereas if others engaged in it in a major way, took it seriously and listened to Kofi Annan and the UN bodies working on it, it could make a huge impact. That is not the case today. The UN and EU conferences we held here were hugely important. We must try to keep those initiatives going every few years, perhaps not every year.
It might be useful if we had an opportunity to discuss the progress towards the world millennium development goals, not just in this House but in Europe. I understand the former minister Eveline Herfkens was appointed to liaise with parliaments across Europe and elsewhere, to oversee the progress of the goals, one of which is the reduction in AIDS. Does the Secretary General of the UN, Kofi Annan, have any proposals to fill the gap in the pledged amount for AIDS? I understand what was pledged is less than 40% of what is required. That being the case, what specific proposals has he to deal with the shortfall, specifically the big gap looming regarding the large number of AIDS orphans in sub-Saharan Africa? Survival is not the only issue they face, as it appears little provision is made for the further education of such orphans. I cannot remember the figure at present.
I sense the despair in the Taoiseach's comments on Mozambique. However, it was pointed out by one leading NGO that it is easier to buy small arms in Mozambique than it is to get loaves of bread, not to speak of retro-viral drugs. Is there to be a debate on where we are regarding the millennium development goals, specifically the AIDS goal? What specific provision is there on the level of United Nations contingency on the failure of the pledged funds to materialise and on the growing number of orphans not related to their communities for whom provision cannot be made?
As we enter the trade talks is it the case that patent rights on some drugs will finally be removed to enable countries to produce the drugs at much less cost?
The important matter emphasised when I met many African organisations while I was there, is the provision of drugs. A great deal of progress is being made on that, but not enough. The drug companies should be prepared to put in enormous amounts. It would be good for them, would not cost them a great deal and they would receive support for that. Drugs can have major and quick success. It could change things in a four or five year period. That is the biggest effort to be made.
In our case, we increased from €30 million to €100 million per year, which is substantial. Regarding the point I made earlier to Deputy Gormley, other countries must also make the effort. If everyone even doubled the amount given — we trebled it — it would provide the ability to obtain large quantities of drugs. The network is fairly good in most countries, perhaps not in all, but in Mozambique the network is good. One can easily distribute drugs.
The point made by Deputy Michael Higgins on orphans refers to a huge problem. Lesotho, a small country where we have taken a lead role for 25 years as I know Deputy Higgins is well aware, has stabilised its political system and the Government is now in control. Its Prime Minister came here one or two years ago and our President visited there. We have a very good relationship. However, the situation regarding the orphans in rural communities has not greatly improved. Only a small percentage of adults are there now. They have been wiped out from the mountains and farms which creates a huge problem for the future. In half of the families, the lead person is under 18 years of age. Older brothers and sisters now lead families. That creates huge problems. People have no education because once they are 15 years old they must work.
Last September there was a meeting on the review of the millennium goals. Kofi Annan set out in his report what is to be done by everybody. It is a question of whether the large countries in particular will give. There was some success last year through the G8 meeting and the work of Bono, Geldof and other lobbies last year. It will be interesting to see whether those commitments will be delivered. I am not sure they will. However, at least there is a blueprint to try to make people deliver.
I am grateful to have the opportunity to ask a question. However, I first say how much I, as an Irish person, appreciate what is contributed to African countries by the Irish Government. Irish people can be very proud of it. Irish aid is a good way to help countries in Africa deal with this problem in a rational and coherent way. However, it is still less than is needed.
Palliation is an important part of AIDS.
Does the Deputy have a question?
In our country, we have palliative care services for people with AIDS. A major role of palliative care service is in cancer care. The recent cancer care report showed a €90 million annual deficit in funding for palliative care services. Large areas of this country do not have a State palliative care service, such as the midlands and the north east. I wish to ask the Taoiseach——
We are moving away from the question.