Dáil Éireann Debate, Thursday - 2 February 2012
7Deputy Billy Kelleher asked the Minister for the Environment; Community and Local Government the timeframe he has put on developing and publishing a local government reform document; the issues he hopes to raise in reform discussions; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [5772/12]
View answer34Deputy Martin Ferris asked the Minister for the Environment; Community and Local Government if he intends to introduce any legislation relating to local government reform; if so, when the process will commence; and the consultation that will take place. [5896/12]
View answer55Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin asked the Minister for the Environment; Community and Local Government if he has plans to introduce any legislation that will impact on town councils and if so, will the town councils remain a separate legal and political entity to local authorities. [5897/12]
View answer163Deputy Brian Stanley asked the Minister for the Environment; Community and Local Government when Dáil Éireann can expect to see local Government reform proposals including devolving control on transport, traffic, economic development, education, responses to crime and local health care needs to local communities. [6021/12]
View answer164Deputy Brian Stanley asked the Minister for the Environment; Community and Local Government the progress made in the Programme for Government’s commitment to abolish the position of County Manager. [6022/12]
View answerI propose to take Questions Nos. 7, 34, 55, 163 and 164 together.
I am adopting a progressive approach to the reform and development of local government in accordance with the programme for Government. Decisions have already been taken to merge the authorities in Limerick and Tipperary and implementation work is proceeding in both cases. I have also established a local government committee to consider whether Waterford city and county councils should be unified.
I intend to bring wider policy proposals to Government in the near future which will build on these early actions, with particular attention being given to strengthening local government structures generally at regional, county and sub-county levels and expanding the role of local government, including proposals in regard to municipal governance within counties. In this context, I am also consulting ministerial colleagues to consider what functions and services of their Departments and of bodies under their aegis could potentially be devolved to local government.
The proposals will reflect work under way in regard to alignment of local and community development with local government and local government efficiency implementation. They will also broadly map out further aspects of the local government system on which reform proposals will be considered, including a range of governance matters such as ethics, local political and executive leadership, and the balance between elected members and the executive in the performance of functions. The future designation and role of the county manager will be among the matters for consideration in that context.
Primary legislation will be required in the first instance to provide for transitional management arrangements in Limerick and Tipperary until the establishment of a unified local authority in both counties in 2014. Further substantive legislation will be required to implement, with effect from the 2014 local elections, the full amalgamation of the authorities in question and establishment of their successors. The need for any additional legislation related to the wider policy proposals will be examined, in conjunction with the Office of the Attorney General, when these matters have been decided by Government.
I thank the Minister. First, will he clarify his position in regard to the delivery of water services? If he establishes the proposed water company, where stands the existing function within the local authorities? Is it his proposal to transfer the staff to the new water company or will they ultimately face redundancy or job losses? Will he clarify the position in that regard also?
Second, with regard to local authority managers, is it his intention when considering the overall posts, structures and terms of reference for local authority managers to limit the duration of their appointments to, say, three, five or seven years, similar to the position in semi-State bodies at present?
I am examining the term of office of the managers and the role they would have, in conjunction with the board of directors, who are the democratically elected people in local government. The chief executive officer is the manager but the board of directors should be the elected members. The balance between management, managers and local elected members is under discussion. The term of office is also included with that and will have to fit in with the wider public service reform proposals which the Minister, Deputy Howlin, is working on.
With regard to water and related staff, I am anxious to maintain the local expertise and knowledge that has been developed over many years in local government to enhance the delivery of the Irish water entity that will ultimately have to come to Government for decision. I expect this will be between now and the end of this Dáil session. The question of how many staff will be required and what role local government will play is obviously under discussion. I expect that local government staff will continue to play a very meaningful role in the delivery of our water services.
As it is her first time to take questions since being appointed, I congratulate the Minister of State, Deputy Jan O'Sullivan, on her appointment and wish her well.
Hear, hear.
We will not always agree but it is to be hoped we will have healthy exchanges.
Question No. 34 is similar to Question No. 7. I would like to tease out the issue with the Minister but it is bit like the position with the septic tanks in that it is a case of trying to read the Minister's mind on this issue. That is the problem.
It is some mind to read.
When coming into power with a huge majority, the Government said it would involve the Opposition and take reviews on board. However, the Minister comes in with a fait accompli and throws it on the table. The majority in the House will push it through while we are like bystanders with our mouths open and unable to do anything about it. I ask the Minister to take a different approach on this issue-----
I remind the Deputy there is a one minute limit for supplementary questions.
He will be left with his mouth open when the Ceann Comhairle stops him.
All parties, whether of the right, left or centre, have a great interest in local government. With regard to the powers, I ask the Minister to shift the balance back in favour of the elected members. I listened carefully to what he said about the elected members being the board of directors. That is the way it should be but it is not the way it is, and I ask him to change it.
The Minister should take a serious look at the functions. Many issues could be dealt with at local level and should not be dealt with at national level, and many powers should also be shifted back to local level.
What is the Minister's position in regard to the dual mandate? Before I entered the Oireachtas I was both a town councillor and a county councillor. Is it the Minister's intention to retain the town council structures by way of a dual mandate system or will they be subsumed into the country structure? That is a very direct question.
I would like to be able to give the Deputy a direct answer but I cannot. I must discuss these issues with my Government colleagues. I have an idea as to what I would like to do but I must discuss it with them. As the Ceann Comhairle knows, one must get agreement from Government before one can inform the House. I am sure the Deputy will understand that. I do not want to be left with my mouth open and nothing left to say to my Government colleagues after telling the Deputy everything.
There is no chance of that.
As I stated in my reply, I am a very strong proponent of devolution of power from central to local government. I want to see people at local level having a meaningful say in their affairs. Power should be as close as possible to the citizen in regard to governance and the delivery of local issues and services. The Deputy can take it that I will be a proponent of the policy he has just enunciated. I am sure we will have no difficulty in agreeing on these matters when it comes to legislation in the House.
I am pleased to hear the Minister's last few phrases about the need to get back to having citizens involved in decisions that affect them. When he is deliberating on local government reform will he consider not only the need to devolve power back to local authorities but, wherever possible, devolving power, decision making and participation to the citizens? There has been considerable alienation of local communities from their local authorities because of a feeling that decisions are made over their heads in favour of developers, or whatever.
In that regard, and following the controversies in areas such as Corrib and, lately, the Kish in regard to applications for drilling licences on the foreshore, will the Minister agree it should not be at his discretion only there should be public inquiries on these matters but that it should be mandatory to have a public inquiry concerning any oil or gas exploration within the foreshore area? Perhaps the Minister could make a start in moving in that direction by indicating he will allow for a public inquiry on the Providence Resources application to drill for oil and gas off the Dalkey and Killiney coastline.
Visitors in the Visitors Gallery are not allowed to contribute.
Deputy Boyd Barrett had indicated a few people were on their way. I was wondering-----
I told them not to clap.
I am sorry. This is Question Time in the national Parliament.
What we must do in respect of any matter in local government, including how we devolve functions from national to local government, is to have an orderly examination of matters. It is not because one individual might have a particular view but in order that we take all matters into account. We have respect for democracy, local government and the law and we will not treat politics by having local elections every week. That might be what Deputy Boyd Barrett would like but I believe in giving people a mandate over a period of time in order to implement a local set of services and policies. The functions we seek to devolve from central to local government will be as major as I can make them and delivery of those services will be as close as possible to the citizen.
The matter the Deputy raised directly is the subject of a later question.
What about a public inquiry?
I call Deputy Collins.
Like Deputy Stanley, it was remiss of me not to acknowledge the Minister of State, Deputy Jan O'Sullivan, and to wish her well in her new role. I am sure she will be very successful at it.
The household charge is essentially a local tax which is being pooled centrally, or nationally. Where does that stand in regard to local government reform which should see local collection of taxes that would be ringfenced for investment and delivery of local services? Where money is collected in an area it should be spent in the area.
Deputy Collins and I agree there must be financial autonomy as far as possible for the local delivery of services through local government. I am anxious that as many functions as possible in terms of raising money locally for delivery of services to the citizen should be introduced. That is what the household charge is about. It is ringfenced for delivery of local services. It is the same with the more progressive and fairer system of property tax that is being generated in the coming months. That, too, will be applicable to local government services and for their delivery. It is not sustainable that at present we have small businesses supporting in a major way the delivery of local services. It puts them under financial pressure. I want to broaden the tax base in order to ensure we have maintenance of employment at local level and less pressure on local businesses than is the case at present with the collection of commercial rates. I will be looking at all financial opportunities to be ringfenced at local government level, where moneys will be collected and administered by local government for the delivery of those services.
I reiterate one point made by Deputy Stanley in regard to local government reform. It relates to the power of managers. We have seen this with Dublin City Council which has accumulated powers that were passed by the Oireachtas. It gave the council too much power while local councillors were relegated down the chain in terms of what they could and could not do. I would like to see those powers weaned away from managers and back to councillors who would have the ability to deal with them. I hope that is part of the Minister's agenda as he looks at reform of the local authorities. There are areas in which managers are making decisions and local councillors have no input or, if they do, the manager overrides them. This is a very important area that needs to be examined.
Councillors often abdicate responsibility. They have done so in respect of waste management.
That is democracy.
Abdication is never democracy. This is a responsibility for local councillors. They must take it and make hard decisions about raising money and delivering local services. They have to make choices. If one wants true local democracy people have to make choices based on the resources available. The management system we have at present is tilted too much in favour of the management and against the democratic wishes of elected members. I am going to change that.
