Priority Questions
47. Deputy Charlie McConalogue asked the Minister for Education and Skills if he has conducted an audit of the impact that cuts to guidance and counselling services at second level made in Budget 2012 is having on the student population; and the measures he plans to take to ensure that the needs of students are adequately catered for. [43235/12]
View answerThe day-to-day management of teaching resources in schools is done at local school level. It is not something I intend to audit as suggested by the Deputy. It is established policy that guidance is a whole-school activity and under existing arrangements each school develops a school guidance plan as a means of supporting the needs of its students. I am confident schools will act in the best interest of students.
I acknowledge that the reduction in resources to second level schools is challenging for schools. However, the budget measure that requires schools to manage the provision of guidance from within their standard staffing allocation, the alternative to which was to make an adjustment to the standard staffing schedule, must be seen in the context of our very difficult budgetary constraints. As part of the budgetary measure, my Department helped shelter the impact for DEIS post-primary schools by improving their standard staffing allocations.
In the last month or so, as schools have come back for the new term, we have started to see the real impact on students on the ground of the Minister's decision in last year's budget to abolish the ex quota allocation of hours for guidance counselling. When the Minister removed the ex quota allocation last year, he told schools they had to make do with the guidance provision and take it from their standard teaching hours instead. That has put all schools across the country under pressure in terms of the service they used to be able to provide. In many cases, it has led to a vast reduction in the number of guidance hours being provided.
A recent unfortunate incident in County Wexford has received widespread media coverage. A student who was seeking to see a guidance counsellor, but was not able to do so, was subsequently hospitalised. When this was brought to the attention of the Department of Education and Skills, an additional allocation of 11 hours was provided to the school. That happened after the event. There is an onus on the Minister to ask for an assessment across the rest of the country so we can see the impact this cut is having. It is not good enough for the Minister to respond after a serious incident. If the school in question needed an additional 11 hours, why would other schools across the country not need additional hours as well?
We do not yet have the full story in that particular case. The school in question has been in contact with the Department and additional resource hours have been made available. As it is one of the largest schools in the country - if not the largest - it faces certain pressures. The emphasis in the job description of those who look after the welfare of young people in our schools appears to have moved more towards the provision of counselling, as distinct from career guidance. That is the responsibility of the entire school and its staff. A comprehensive article on pages 8 and 9 of the health supplement in today's edition of The Irish Times goes into this issue in some depth. I will bear in mind what the Deputy has said and keep it under review.
I do not think it is sufficient to "keep it under review" in this instance. We have already seen the impact this change has had in the first month of the school year. There is an onus on the Minister to engage with schools across the country. He has said this is now the responsibility of each school, but the reality is that the cut provided for in last year's budget has made it exceptionally difficult for schools to continue to provide these services. There is an onus on the Minister to engage with schools. If other schools approach the Minister to point out that they have been unable to provide the guidance counselling service required by their students, will he respond as he did in the County Wexford case? I hope that can be done before similar situations arise in other schools throughout the country.
I will consider the Deputy's comments, but I will not make policy on the hoof in this regard. There are more than 360,000 pupils in the post-primary sector.
48. Deputy Jonathan O'Brien asked the Minister for Education and Skills his plans to implement proposals to assess capital assets and income when means testing student grants in the 2013-2014 academic year; if he will confirm the publication date of the findings of the Higher Educational Authority National Strategy for Higher Education to 2030. [43233/12]
View answerAs the Deputy will be aware, following the Government's agreement in principle to broaden the current means-testing arrangements for student grants by including the value of capital assets, I set up a dedicated implementation group to make detailed proposals for implementation in 2013. The draft report I have received from the implementation group is under consideration. I will consult my Cabinet colleagues further in due course. I can confirm that the national strategy for higher education in 2030, which has been endorsed by the Government as the roadmap for the development of the higher education system in Ireland, was published in January 2011.
Can the Minister indicate when he received the draft report from the implementation group? When will his considerations be complete? When will the full report be published? This matter is causing a great deal of anxiety, particularly among the farming community. Many thousands of farmers are outside this building today. They have genuine worries about the threat to rural Ireland.
It is not just the farming community as there are sole traders who may have assets. Some subtlety needs to be brought to this as soon as possible. Will the Minister give some indication when he expects that final report to be published and when a decision will be brought before Cabinet?
First, whatever decision is made, it will not start to take effect until the academic year 2013-14. We have a bit of time, therefore, and I want to use that time to ensure we get a satisfactory report that sets out in a fair and proper manner to achieve what it is trying to achieve, which is to get a degree of equality in terms of the eligibility of students and their households to apply for support, taking into account all of the economic factors involved. That is what we are trying to do. While I would like to get that sooner rather than later so everybody can plan, I cannot give the Deputy a firm date in regard to it. I would imagine it will, hopefully, be this side of Christmas but that is an indication rather than a prediction.
Will the Minister confirm, in regard to the draft report he has received, that he is just looking at the value of the assets or is he also taking into account debts that may apply against those assets? Will it be the net or gross value of the assets that will be taken into account? Will the Minister give some indication of the draft report's focus in terms of how he is going to value particular assets?
I do not want to go into the precise detail or to in any way mislead the Deputy. What we are trying to look at is whether households that have a farm or a small business have the capacity, based on those additional assets plus the income they derive from the utilisation of those assets, to fund education in a way that is different from or additional to that of a family where the only income is the PAYE income. We are trying to look at that in as sensitive a way as possible, having regard to the concerns that have been expressed in recent months but which were expressed very vociferously in the past as well when this matter was mooted.
49. Deputy Catherine Murphy asked the Minister for Education and Skills if, in view of the cuts to salary levels for new entrants to the teaching profession, he has performed a risk assessment on the demand for teacher training places in view of the lower income expectations; if he has considered the impact of persons doing the same work for different incomes and the conflicts that may arise; and if the risk assessment has considered if there will be varying educational outcomes on foot of this decision. [43362/12]
View answerIt is neither possible nor appropriate to attempt to separate measures such as those impacting on the pay of new entrants from their context. These measures have to be viewed against the backdrop of a very serious financial and budgetary situation. They reflect a position where this country has lost its economic sovereignty and simply no longer has full control over its economic affairs.
Reductions in the pay of new entrant public servants, including teachers, date back to the last Government. More recently, this Government has made further adjustments on foot of the allowances review. In the case of teachers, while there has been a small decline in applications to the bachelor of education for primary teaching between 2011 and 2012, the overall number of applications remains high. A similar trend obtains for the professional diploma in education, which is the main route to post-primary teaching. It is significant that successful applicants to the bachelor of education courses in 2012 continue to be from the top quartile of leaving certificate students in terms of points.
Ireland has always attracted students of the highest calibre to the teaching profession, a profession that enjoys the respect, trust and high regard of the public, and I am confident that this will continue to be the case.
I do not know if a risk assessment is done in regard to these kinds of matters. I certainly remember working in the same office as someone who was paid more because that person happened to be a man. I know the kind of resentments this created and, indeed, I remember the day when that was reversed as it is something that will stick with me. Those resentments will be very real.
I know the Minister completely agrees that we need to take the long view when it comes to education. However, in regard to, for example, subjects like maths and science where an alternative type of employment may be available, does the Minister not agree there is a risk in terms of the calibre of people who may well come into the profession? In turn, those people will be needed if we are going to have a sustainable workforce into the future.
It links back to people preferring a particular profession because of the income available, not exclusively because of the vocational aspect of the career choice. Does the Minister agree that is the case?
I understand the Deputy's concerns about a two-tiered salary system for the same occupation and activity, but it is not confined to the teaching sector or the public service. In response to the economic crisis, recruitment grades in the private sector have dropped considerably. One has the phenomenon of young or recently recruited people coming into a place of work to do a job at a rate that is lower than other people who have been in the job for three or four years prior to them. That is the way employers have reacted to the economic crisis. In view of pay agreements and pay contracts in the private and public sectors, unilaterally changing the contracts would be in breach of the agreements and would cause consequences that would disrupt the teaching. That is why we, along with many other employers, have altered the agreement for new recruits.
On Deputy Murphy’s concern that it will slow down, distort or reduce the number of quality teachers coming into the system, the feeling is that it will not for the simple reason that for every successful teaching applicant for both the primary school training centres - colleges of education – and at second level, there are approximately nine who are not successful. I speak about the present. Over time, that will have to be reviewed to see if there was any change in attitude but, currently we have a high level of applications for teaching posts both in the primary sector and the post-primary sector.
Does the Minister consider the measure as a long-term proposition or will it be reviewed if economic circumstances change? In the event of a changed economic climate resulting in changes in the cost of education as a result of the Croke Park agreement does the Minister foresee a change in approach in that regard?
The public sector pay agreement, namely, the Croke Park agreement, which was negotiated by the previous Government, which we undertook to honour, has delivered many savings already but it is due to expire. I hope a new agreement will be negotiated in its place. That is the time to examine these types of anomalies and differences and no doubt that will be the case.
50. Deputy Charlie McConalogue asked the Minister for Education and Skills if he will ensure that third level students and their families are not levied with a further increase in the student contribution fee in 2013; if he has examined alternative savings in the third level sector; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [43236/12]
View answerAs the Deputy will be aware the student contribution increased to €2,250 for the current academic year. The full contribution is paid by the Exchequer in respect of students who qualify under the Department's student grant scheme. In addition, conscious of financial pressures on families, tax relief provisions have been put in place which provide for tax relief at the standard rate of tax for full-time fees in excess of €2,250. Finally, the Department, through the Higher Education Authority, HEA, has requested institutions to put arrangements in place whereby a student may pay the contribution in two instalments. I have been assured by the HEA that these arrangements are now in place. It is intended that the contribution will increase to €3,000 by 2015. All areas of Government spending are currently being examined and in that context, the Deputy will appreciate that in line with normal practice I am unable to comment on the budgetary process.
I note that the Minister confirmed before the Dáil today, as he did recently at an education committee meeting, that it is his intention to increase the student contribution fee to €3,000. That is a shameful position the Minister is now taking in government. Just a month before the election campaign the Minister participated in a photo call with the Union of Students in Ireland, in which he signed up to its campaign, "Your Future, Your Vote". Students pledged their vote in return for a commitment by the Minister on student registration fees. He promised them that under a Labour Party Government – the Minister went on to become Minister for Education and Skills, having been spokesperson for education at the time – there would be no increase in registration fees.
In addition, the Minister promised to reverse the €500 increase that was introduced that year. Yet now we hear the Minister state his intention to increase that sum to €3,000, thereby completely breaking the pledge he gave to students at that time.
A question, please.
Will the Minister do a very simple thing and keep the promise he made to students in the full knowledge of the economic environment at the time? He stated one thing four weeks before he got into government, but now he is saying "Sorry, guys, it's going to go up to €3,000, and do you know what? I feel bad about it". Feeling bad about it is not a good enough response to students. What they, and I, want him to do is to keep the promises he made to them, which formed the basis on which he was elected.
The Deputy is right. I signed the pledge on behalf of the Labour Party as the party's spokesperson on education during the campaign for the last general election. That pledge and that commitment did not make it into the programme for Government that was negotiated between my party and Fine Gael. As Minister for Education and Skills, I have a responsibility to implement the programme for Government, and that is what I am doing. I have to ensure that students who want to go to college can get there. What I have stated frequently is that there should be no financial barrier for a student who wants to go to college. That is why 42% of all students doing undergraduate courses are on some form of grant, which means not only that they may have a maintenance grant but that they do not have to pay the fee in the first instance.
I am sorry, but the Minister's response does not add up. He was the Opposition spokesperson on education-----
Labour Party spokesperson.
He was the spokesperson on education for the Labour Party in Opposition. He did not in any way qualify what he stated at that time but promised the sun, moon and stars. He said it would be no problem under the Labour Party. He told students that if he were Minister for Education and Skills, not only would there be no increase in student registration fees but he would undo the increases that had already occurred. Yet now, in government, he has the audacity to come into the Chamber and say the paper he signed counted for nothing. He did not tell that to the students before the election; he promised them whatever it would take in order for him to get their vote. What the Minister should do now is to stand by his own principles. As Minister for Education and Skills, he should stick to his promises and not increase the registration fee this year.
I thank the Deputy for his advice. I intend to proceed as Minister for Education and Skills and implement the course of policy for which I have a mandate from the Cabinet through the programme for Government.
As Deputy Stephen Donnelly is not in the Chamber, we will move on.
