Dáil Éireann Debate, Wednesday - 9 November 2016
24. Deputy Mick Barry asked the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence if, in view of indications that the Garda Representative Association and the Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors will have statutory access to the same statutory industrial relations fora as other trade unions, his Department will extend these same rights to PDFORRA and RACO. [33821/16]
View answerThe Garda Representative Association and the Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors are to have statutory access to the Workplace Relations Commission and the Labour Court. Will the Department of Defence extend the same rights to soldiers and organisations such as PDFORRA and RACO?
As the Deputy is aware, the scheme of conciliation and arbitration for members of the Permanent Defence Force, PDF, provides a formal mechanism for the PDF representative associations, RACO and PDFORRA, to engage with the official side. The purpose of the scheme is to provide a means for the determination of claims and proposals from the associations relating to remuneration and conditions of service. The representative associations have been to the fore in advancing the interests of their members in this regard, bringing them into line generally with the pay and conditions available in other public service employments. The conciliation and arbitration scheme includes access to independent adjudication. In addition, there is a framework which facilitates the associations' engagement with the official side in talks parallel to those taking place between the ICTU and the official side at national level. This parallel process was successfully operated in respect of last year's rounds of discussions facilitated by the Labour Relations Commission on an extension to the public service agreement, 2013 to 2016, which led to the Lansdowne Road agreement.
I have recently received representations from PDFORRA seeking to have access to the Workplace Relations Commission and the Labour Court made available to them in the event of future legislative changes to provide An Garda Síochána with access to same. I am advised that the proposals in relation to An Garda Síochána being granted such access will require detailed legislative changes. I remain satisfied with the arrangements in place for the Defence Forces and have no immediate plans to make changes. However, in the light of PDFORRA's representations, the matter will be kept under review, including in the context of the arrangements to be made for An Garda Síochána.
Like the Garda representative organisations, PDFORRA and RACO have taken a case to the European Committee of Social Rights under Articles 4 and 6 of the European Social Charter seeking the same right of access to industrial relations machinery as other unions have, as well as the right to affiliate to the Irish Congress of Trade Unions.
The claim of the Garda organisations was upheld, despite resistance and opposition from the Government. Is the Government going to mount the same resistance to members of the armed forces and their representative organisations achieving the same civil rights?
As things stand, the armed forces now have the lowest level of legal protection and the poorest democratic rights of all workers. A number of High Court cases are pending on this. Will the Minister of State comment on the situation? I ask him, rather than simply explaining the status quo, to consider changing it immediately.
I will not comment on any legal cases before the courts. It would be improper of me to make any comment on any cases.
Under the terms of the Defence (Amendment) Act 1994, Defence Forces representative associations are prohibited from being associated with or affiliated to any trade union or any other body without the consent of the Minister of State. Accordingly, the representative associations PDFORRA and RACO cannot be affiliated to ICTU. The basis of the prohibition is that it would be inappropriate to apply the provisions of the Industrial Relations Act 1992 to members of the Defence Forces. The taking of any form of industrial action would be irreconcilable within the military service. This is a long-standing policy position that has been taken by respective Governments since the foundation of the State. Defence forces may be called to contribute to maintaining vital services in times of industrial action, as we saw last week
As I said in my original reply, in light of PDFORRA's representation this matter will be kept under constant review in the context of the arrangements to be made for An Garda Síochána.
Specific issues have been raised with my office, namely that the Organisation of Working Time Act does not apply to the armed forces. Claims have been made by Army rangers and Defence Forces chiefs that have been upheld in the courts, but have not yet been honoured by the Department of Defence. The armed forces suffered the same impositions as the rest of the public service, including pension levies, pay cuts and pay inequality. Their conditions compare unfavourably to those of the Garda, but they have even fewer rights when it comes to giving any kind of expression to the savaging of their living standards.
My office was astonished to be told that members of the armed forces are even prohibited from discussing issues relating to their working conditions with Deputies. Why is that? I want to say to any soldier, sailor or member of the Air Corps that he or she can talk to my office in confidence.
In its submission to the public service pay commission in late August, the AAA specifically called for civil and trade union rights for the armed forces. Why are they being granted to gardaí but not soldiers?
As I said in my original reply, I will keep the matter under review. I meet Defence Forces personnel on a regular basis, and I make sure I speak to them face-to-face. I do not meet those from management level alone, rather I meet those from all levels of the organisation. I encourage members of the organisation and the Irish Defence Forces, if they have issues of any kind that they want to discuss with me, to do so. I met PDFORRA and RACO on numerous occasions. A number of issues the Deputy has raised with me were not raised with me directly since I was appointed Minister of State. My office door is always open to listen to any representative organisations.
One representative organisation said there is more of an open door policy in my office than was the case in the past. It is important that I, as Minister of State with responsibility for defence, am able to interact and maintain good relations with representative organisations. If they want to raise issues with me I have no problem with listening to them.
