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Industrial Relations

Dáil Éireann Debate, Thursday - 15 February 2018

Thursday, 15 February 2018

Questions (8, 13, 23, 87)

James Lawless

Question:

8. Deputy James Lawless asked the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport when weekend and off-peak rail services on the Kildare line will commence through the Phoenix Park tunnel; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [7730/18]

View answer

Bríd Smith

Question:

13. Deputy Bríd Smith asked the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport if he has engaged with workers' representatives in Irish Rail or Bus Éireann on the ongoing issues at those companies following recent disputes; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [7718/18]

View answer

Mick Barry

Question:

23. Deputy Mick Barry asked the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport his views on the industrial relations disputes in Irish Rail; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [7727/18]

View answer

Mick Barry

Question:

87. Deputy Mick Barry asked the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport his views on the current dispute in Irish Rail regarding driver training; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [7546/18]

View answer

Oral answers (74 contributions)

The Ceann Comhairle has given Deputy Robert Troy permission to take Question No. 8 in the name of Deputy James Lawless on the basis that he is unavoidably absent. Also, I think Deputy Mick Barry will be able to take Question No. 13 in the name of Deputy Bríd Smith, if he so wishes. I ask Deputy Robert Troy to make the 30-second introduction. The other Members will be able to make their contributions after the Minister's reply.

Does the Minister have plans to introduce weekend and off-peak services on the Kildare line through the Phoenix Park tunnel? It is fair to say the tunnel, about which we spoke earlier, has been a positive development, although its operation is very restricted. Does the Minister intend to extend its operating times?

I propose to take Questions Nos. 8, 13, 23 and 87 together.

The commencement of off-peak commuter services on the Kildare line through the Phoenix Park tunnel is the subject of industrial relations discussions in Irish Rail. The services are expected to commence later this year and I am determined that they will. Industrial relations are a matter for the company and its employees. Disputes about pay or conditions can only be solved by engagement. As Deputies are aware, the State can assist through the normal industrial relations machinery. The Labour Court and the Workplace Relations Commission are the appropriate forums for discussion. I have made it clear time and again that I will not intervene in areas in which it is not appropriate for a Minister to do so.

Following two days of strike action by Iarnród Éireann staff in early November 2017, the Labour Court intervened and a recommendation of a 7.5% increase over three years was accepted on 8 December. A separate Labour Court recommendation which issued in August 2017 related only to train drivers and union claims involving past productivity gains which unions allege were never remunerated. The court recommended an award of 1.15% in full and final settlement of the issue, in return for which drivers would co-operate in the mentoring and supervision of trainee drivers in their final phase of training. Unions rejected the proposed 1.15% additional award on 10 January. The NBRU and SIPTU have commenced a ballot of their members and a result is expected on 28 February. The company and the trade unions have agreed to a referral to the Labour Court for adjudication on the training and mentoring of trainee drivers. The lack of agreement has delayed the completion of the training of new drivers and forced the company to suspend the expansion of services, including services on the Kildare line, as mentioned by Deputy Robert Troy earlier.

Regarding Bus Éireann, I have been advised that progress has been made on many parts of the 2017 Labour Court recommendation, including changes to rosters to ensure maximum rostering efficiency.

The Minister has a little amnesia. In one of his earlier replies he made disparaging remarks about previous Governments. He has forgotten that he complimented Michael Fingleton on providing "a cracking set of figures" which had left "superstar" Seán FitzPatrick standing in awe.

Will the Deputy, please, deal with the issue?

In another article he wrote when he was a journalist, the Minister commended Seán FitzPatrick and said he should be Governor of the Central Bank. He continues to show his cheerleading abilities for the banks.

Will the Deputy, please, deal with the issue?

Now that he is in government, the Minister has done nothing to help the people who are suffering with tracker mortgages.

Will the Deputy, please, resume his seat?

We have learned today that the Government is planning to allow the loans of 20,000 people through Permanent TSB to be sold to vulture funds.

I will suspend the sitting.

The Minister has come into the House today to lecture us about previous Governments.

Will the Deputy, please, resume his seat?

He has been in a position to act as a member of the Government, but he has done nothing. The 20,000 families may be evicted.

I must say I am very surprised that the Deputy is acting in this way.

They are being thrown to the vulture funds, while the Minister is doing nothing.

Will the Deputy, please, resume his seat?

I am going to ask the question.

I am going to ask the question.

No. The Deputy should sit down when I tell him.

I will do so out of respect for the Acting Chairman.

I am most surprised that the Deputy has not adhered to what the Chair has told him. The Minister has answered the specific question asked on which the Deputy is being allowed to deputise for Deputy James Lawless. I ask him to address the issue. He has wasted quite a lot of his time, but I will allow him to ask a supplementary question as long as he sticks to the matter before the House.

It is a pity you were not so forceful when the Minister was throwing disparaging remarks across to this side of the House.

The Deputy is replacing Deputy James Lawless, but he is not supposed to be lawless.

I accept that the opening of the Phoenix Park tunnel is subject to industrial relations considerations, but the Minister has failed to convene the stakeholders forum. Does he accept that if he had convened it six months ago, when he promised to do so, these issues could have been addressed, negotiated and worked through? Will he confirm that enough carriages are available to increase the number of services passing through the Phoenix Park tunnel? I know from my meetings with the former CEO of Irish Rail that no additional carriages will come on stream at Irish Rail for a minimum of 18 months. The carriages in question will be taken from rolling stock that has been put out of service. Old carriages are being reconfigured and refurbished. No new carriages have been ordered. Even if they were ordered today, it would take a minimum of four years to deliver them.

I ask the Minister to, please, stick to the issue in his response.

Before the Minister responds, Deputy Mick Barry must have a chance to come in.

I am sorry; I will let him in first.

No; my question is on pensions. It is to be taken after this question.

They have been grouped together.

Deputy Mick Barry can speak on the issue of pensions now

I can speak on it now.

My question relates to the CIÉ pension fund, an issue of great concern to 10,000 CIÉ workers. The pension fund is underfunded to the tune of €80 million. The board of CIÉ has not been funding the pension fund properly since 2009, despite the fact that it is legally obliged to do so. One hour ago in this House the Minister challenged Deputy Imelda Munster to refer him to where the board of CIÉ was in defiance of the law.

I apologise for interrupting the Deputy, but the Minister is addressing the subject matter of Question No. 23 in the Deputy's name, not the issue the Deputy is raising.

This question relates to the Phoenix Park tunnel.

We are taking Questions Nos. 8, 13, 23 and 87 together. Question No. 23, in the name of Deputy Mick Barry, asks the Minister to set out his views on the industrial relations disputes in Irish Rail.

I tried to make it clear to the Chair that I wanted to follow up on my question on the pensions issue.

I am aware of that.

These are the rules of the House.

The Deputy has tabled a question on this matter. Does he wish to make a contribution?

I call on the Minister to reply to Deputy Troy in regard to the question from Deputy Lawless.

I am furious about this.

I will not address it except to say that Deputy Troy should be accurate in so far as I never suggested that Seán FitzPatrick should be Governor of the Central Bank. Perhaps he will withdraw his remark in that regard.

The Minister can take that up with Deputy Troy. I ask him to address the question.

Deputy Troy's remark is on the record of the House.

It is on the record of the House.

I ask the Minister to answer the question.

I will do so but, on a point of order, there is something that Deputy Troy should withdraw from the record of the House.

I never suggested that Seán FitzPatrick should be Governor of the Central Bank and I ask Deputy Troy to withdraw that allegation.

Does Deputy Troy wish to correct the record?

I will double check my sources and revert on the matter.

Does Deputy Troy wish to correct the record?

Deputy Ross lauded Seán FitzPatrick.

I never suggested-----

In an article written by Deputy Ross he referred to Seán FitzPatrick as a "superstar".

Deputy Troy stated that he will check his-----

In the interests of being fair to the Acting Chairman------

Deputy Troy should not ask me again.

I wish to be of assistance------

Deputy Troy stated that he will check his records.

His records are incorrect but he can check them.

I call on the Minister to answer the question that was tabled.

I will be delighted to do so.

(Interruptions).

Two Deputies who are present will not be able to ask their questions because of what is going on, which is unfair. I ask the Minister to continue.

I will reply to part of what Deputy Troy said but will not reply to a contemptible allegation.

I am absolutely committed to holding the public transport stakeholder dialogue which Deputy Troy stated I failed to hold. My interest is that industrial relations should be extremely good. The Deputy is aware that during an industrial relations dispute when the unions, quite understandably, asked that I become involved and intervene, which I cannot do, I pledged to hold a public transport stakeholder dialogue on the condition that it should not take place during an industrial relations dispute because that would probably be the only subject of conversation, which is not the purpose of the dialogue. We made several attempts to establish that dialogue but, unfortunately, industrial relations disputes were ongoing. A few weeks ago, we were ready to send out invitations for the dialogue but an industrial relations dispute broke out. As soon as there is industrial peace within the relevant companies, I will send out those invitations because I am determined to progress the dialogue. The industrial relations problems in the transport companies would not necessarily be resolved but would be ameliorated by getting all parties together to discuss the future of transport. My Department is embarking on the preparation of a public transport policy statement. As part of that review, I am committed to convene and host the round-table policy discussion to which Deputy Troy referred. The objective of that event is to facilitate an open and inclusive exchange of views from interested parties on the potential challenges and competing priorities likely to arise across all aspects of public transport provision, including economic, social and environmental considerations.

The Minister stated that he made several attempts to establish the dialogue but the reality is that he attempted to do so only once, which was after the conclusion of industrial action at Bus Éireann. Had the Minister acted in a swift manner at that time and convened the multi-stakeholder forum, it would have been in operation and would have prevented industrial action. However, like most projects to which he turns his hand, he put it on the long finger.

As regards the Phoenix Park tunnel, is the Minister confident there is sufficient rolling stock to roll out that service throughout the day when the industrial action concludes? As I stated, when I met the CEO of Irish Rail before Christmas he identified that there was insufficient rolling stock to introduce new services on certain lines. Does that include the Phoenix Park tunnel?

I told the Deputy that it is my intention for that to happen as soon as possible. It is an operational matter for the NTA but it is a high priority.

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