Róisín Shortall
Question:5. Deputy Róisín Shortall asked the Minister for Business, Enterprise and Innovation the steps she is taking to curb ticket touting; and the timeframe for the passing of legislation is this regard. [23060/18]
View answerThursday, 24 May 2018
Questions (5)
Oral answers (14 contributions)
My question relates to the widespread problem of ticket touting and the secondary sale of tickets for concerts and sporting events. This matter is of serious concern and annoyance to the public. What, if anything, is the Government doing about the problem?
I thank the Deputy for her question. The Minister is currently seeking to finalise legislative proposals on ticket resale. The main element of current proposals for legislation on ticket resale is for a ban on resale above the face value of the ticket or on resale at a price in excess of 10% above face value. While the Minister shares the Deputy's concern to ensure that ticket markets work better for consumers, a number of considerations have to be taken into account in deciding on these and other proposals for legislation on ticket resale.
First, the evidence available to the Department suggests that, while a statutory price cap would act to counter ticket profiteering, it is unlikely to improve significantly the ability of fans to obtain tickets for particularly high demand events. The Department obtained detailed information from Ticketmaster and the main secondary platforms operating in Ireland about two events that gave rise to particular criticism about secondary ticket sales - the Coldplay and U2 concerts in Croke Park in July 2017. Combined demand for tickets for the two events exceeded supply by a factor of more than three to one. Even if all of the tickets resold above face value on the main secondary platforms had been available to buyers on the primary ticket market, they would have met less than 5% of the estimated unsatisfied demand for tickets. In so far as the aim of legislative proposals is to ensure greater access for music and sports fans to tickets for high-demand events, there are grounds, therefore, for questioning whether it would achieve this aim.
Second, ticket reselling above face value is permitted in most EU member states. Departmental officials discussed the experience with ticket resale legislation with consumer protection authorities in a number of countries that restrict the resale of tickets. All indicated that while the legislation had been reasonably effective in preventing prohibited resale activity within their national borders, there continued to be significant levels of resale activity for high-demand events on secondary ticket platforms in other countries. If ticket resale in Ireland is subject to a statutory price cap, the borderless character of online trading makes it likely that people in this country who wish to resell tickets at a higher price than that permitted by the legislation, or who are prepared to buy tickets at such a higher price, will go to secondary ticket marketplaces in countries where ticket resale is legal and not subject to a price cap.
Additional information not given on the floor of the House
Third, legislative proposals should obviously seek as far as possible to avoid unintended and undesirable consequences. The established secondary ticket marketplaces offer buyers a guarantee that they will be refunded the price of tickets which are not delivered or prove to be fake. While there are understandable reasons for disliking the activities of these marketplaces and there are questions in some cases about the implementation of the guarantees which they offer, they nevertheless afford consumers a level of protection that does not apply to secondary tickets sourced from general online marketplaces, pop-up websites, social networks or street sellers. If, as is possible, the enactment of price cap legislation would lead to the departure of the established secondary marketplaces from the Irish market, the resale channels that would, to some extent or other, fill the gap left by their departure are very unlikely to offer the same guarantees to ticket buyers.
Fourth, it is necessary to consider whether the aims of the proposed legislation could be achieved by other means. There are measures open to event organisers such as personalised and-or paperless ticketing that have been shown to be reasonably effective in preventing ticket resale. A legal requirement on ticket resellers to indicate the row and seat number and, where applicable, the standing area number of tickets could, in addition to benefitting consumers, facilitate event organisers in cancelling tickets resold in breach of the terms of the primary ticket contract. As the issues raised by legislative proposals on ticket resale are complex and require full and careful consideration, the Minister, Deputy Humphreys, is not in a position at this point to give a definite time frame for the introduction of legislation. Her aim, however, is to bring proposals to Government on the issue at the earliest possible date.
I thank the Minister of State but he described the problem and did not answer the question. This is a matter for public concern for several years and it is getting worse, particularly in respect of concerts. Last February, I asked the Minister a question about this and the reply that was following the public consultation, there were discussions going on with all the interested parties and at European level, and officials would bring all that information to her. She said that she would prepare proposals "in the near future". It seems from the Minister of State's reply that little progress has been made. He described the problem but he did not say what the Minister or the Department will do. Is it the intention to legislate? If so, when can we expect legislation?
Two Private Members' Bills have been introduced in this area. The Bill tabled by Deputies Rock and Donnelly provides for a ban on the resale of tickets above face value while Deputy Quinlivan's Bill provides for a ban on the resale of tickets in excess of 10% of the ticket price. The Minister commends the initiatives taken by the Deputies and she is fully sympathetic to them. I can understand how anxious Deputy Shortall is in this regard but this is a complex issue. If legislation is introduced, it must be effective and enforceable. The solution is not simple and straightforward. A minority of EU member states have introduced legislation in this regard. However, independent reviews have recommended against legislation in other countries, including the statutory cap on resale. If legislation is introduced, it must benefit consumers and it must not give rise to unintended consequences. The Minister is examining the issue.
The Minister of State stated the obvious again regarding the problem. What legislative plans does the Minister, Deputy Humphreys, have to address this undoubted and widespread problem? There have been promises to tackle it. Last February, she said she would bring forward proposals "in the near future". Reference to Private Members' Bills is beside the point. Neither of those Bills is being progressed in a serious way. There has not been a money message, for example, in respect of the Bill that was debated recently. There is a problem and the public are being ripped off by ticket prices and ticket touting for concerts and sporting events. Will the Minister take legislative action in this regard? If so, when we can we expect the legislation?
Any legislation that is put in place must be in the interests of music or sports fans.
Of course.
While the Minister remains open to some form of price cap legislation, she has to consider all the options.
She has been considering them for a long time.
These include a ban on the use of bots to purchase tickets and a requirement on ticket resellers and secondary ticket platforms to indicate the row and seat numbers, where applicable, and standing area number of tickets. In addition to benefitting consumers, a mandatory information requirement of this kind would facilitate event organisers to cancel tickets resold in breaches of terms of privacy. All these issues have to be taken into consideration. There are thousands of sporting and entertainment events.
If one boils it down to the concerts which give rise to problems, they number no more than 50 per year. We saw recently with Ed Sheeran that because there were three concerts there was no real problem with ticket sales.
The Government is not going to do anything.
The Minister is considering the options. We need good legislation here. That is the important point.
When will we see that legislation?
We are not going to introduce legislation just for the sake of it. The Minister is currently examining the two Private Members' Bills and following that examination, she will consider her options.