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European Council Meetings

Dáil Éireann Debate, Wednesday - 11 July 2018

Wednesday, 11 July 2018

Questions (9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25)

Micheál Martin

Question:

9. Deputy Micheál Martin asked the Taoiseach the European Union leaders he spoke with prior to the June 2018 EU Council meeting. [27688/18]

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Joan Burton

Question:

10. Deputy Joan Burton asked the Taoiseach the European Union leaders he spoke with prior to the June 2018 EU Council meeting. [28848/18]

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Joan Burton

Question:

11. Deputy Joan Burton asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his attendance at the European Council on 28 and 29 June 2018. [29282/18]

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Joan Burton

Question:

12. Deputy Joan Burton asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent engagement with the President of the European Council, Mr. Donald Tusk. [29283/18]

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Mary Lou McDonald

Question:

13. Deputy Mary Lou McDonald asked the Taoiseach the European Union member state Heads of State or Government he spoke with prior to the June 2018 European Council meeting. [29285/18]

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Brendan Howlin

Question:

14. Deputy Brendan Howlin asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his attendance at the European Union Council; and the meetings he held and the issues raised. [29291/18]

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Brendan Howlin

Question:

15. Deputy Brendan Howlin asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his telephone conversation with the President of the EU Council, Mr. Donald Tusk. [29293/18]

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Micheál Martin

Question:

16. Deputy Micheál Martin asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the responses at the June 2018 EU Council meeting regarding the backstop; and if a transition agreement is in place. [29350/18]

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Micheál Martin

Question:

17. Deputy Micheál Martin asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his contributions at the June 2018 EU Council regarding the European Union banking union reforms; and the conclusions that were made. [29351/18]

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Jack Chambers

Question:

18. Deputy Jack Chambers asked the Taoiseach if defence was discussed at the June 2018 EU Council meeting; and if he contributed to same. [29356/18]

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Michael Moynihan

Question:

19. Deputy Michael Moynihan asked the Taoiseach if the eurozone debt crisis and cross-contagion were discussed at the June 2018 EU Council meeting. [29357/18]

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Richard Boyd Barrett

Question:

20. Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his attendance at the most recent European Council meeting. [29396/18]

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Eamon Ryan

Question:

21. Deputy Eamon Ryan asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent meetings at the June 2018 European Council summit in Brussels. [29413/18]

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Micheál Martin

Question:

22. Deputy Micheál Martin asked the Taoiseach if he made a contribution to the debate at the EU Council meeting on migration. [30533/18]

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Micheál Martin

Question:

23. Deputy Micheál Martin asked the Taoiseach the bilateral meetings he attended while at the EU Council meeting. [30536/18]

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Peter Burke

Question:

24. Deputy Peter Burke asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his attendance at the recent June 2018 EU Council meeting. [30960/18]

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Mick Barry

Question:

25. Deputy Mick Barry asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his attendance at the recent EU Council and the meetings he attended. [30968/18]

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Oral answers (21 contributions)

I propose to take Questions Nos. 9 to 25, inclusive, together.

I have an ongoing programme of strategic engagement with my EU counterparts, including by means of formal bilateral meetings as well as informal discussions in the margins of EU summits. I report to the House regularly on these engagements. Recent formal bilateral meetings included those with the Belgian Prime Minister, Mr. Charles Michel, in Dublin on 24 May; the Spanish Prime Minister, Mr. Pedro Sánchez, in Madrid on 14 June; and Austrian Chancellor Kurz in Dublin last Sunday. I also met the President of the European Commission, Mr. Jean-Claude Juncker, and the chief EU Brexit negotiator, Mr. Michel Barnier, in Dublin on 21 June. I had a bilateral meeting with British Prime Minister Theresa May on the margins of the European Council on 28 June, where we discussed the Brexit negotiations and the position in Northern Ireland. I also spoke with her by phone last Saturday.

I had a telephone conversation with the President of the European Council, Mr. Donald Tusk, ahead of the European Council, when we discussed the agenda for the meeting. I outlined our intention to continue to play a constructive role in EU discussions on migration. On Brexit, President Tusk expressed his disappointment at the lack of progress in the negotiations and reiterated his strong support for ensuring that the commitments agreed in December, including around the backstop, are translated into legal text in the withdrawal agreement.

As I reported to the House in detail on 4 July, I attended the European Council in Brussels on Thursday, 28 June, and Friday, 29 June. I also met informally with a number of my other EU counterparts, including the new Italian Prime Minister, Mr. Giuseppe Conte, and the Spanish and Portuguese Prime Ministers. On 28 June, the European Council met in regular format to discuss migration, security and defence, relations with Russia, the multi-annual financial framework and a number of economic issues including the country-specific recommendations on trade, taxation, digital and innovation. On Friday morning, we met in Article 50 format to discuss the Brexit negotiations and later on Friday, we held euro summit in inclusive format to exchange views on how we can deepen and improve economic and monetary union.

Although Brexit is the priority for the Government, migration is of enormous concern to many partners and was an important focus of our discussions. This has been a divisive issue and our discussions were difficult and lengthy. We managed to come to a common European position. We reached agreement on a number of new steps, including the need to increase funding for the Africa Trust Fund, to which Ireland has trebled its contribution. There is also an increase in funding for the facility for refugees in Turkey, to establish dedicated funding for migration through the EU budget, to explore the concept of regional disembarkation platforms and the voluntary establishment of control centres within EU member states. This reinforces the importance of what I have described as our three-pronged approach of securing our external borders, strengthening co-operation with countries of transit and origin and sharing the burden and creating solidarity among member states where a balance of solidarity and responsibility is needed.

In Article 50 format, Mr. Barnier outlined his assessment of the Brexit negotiations to date. We noted our disappointment at the lack of progress and agreed that if there is no agreement on the backstop and the other outstanding elements, including the European Court of Justice and Gibraltar, it will not be possible to finalise the withdrawal agreement as a whole, including the transition arrangements. I have always said that I hope the future relationship between the EU and the UK will be as close and comprehensive as possible, and that it will remove any need for a hard border. This does not remove the need for a legally robust backstop to apply unless and until better arrangements enter into force. I am grateful that EU partners have given us ongoing support and solidarity on this issue of national interest. Ireland’s concerns are at the very heart of the negotiations. The collective view of the EU side remains very firmly that nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.

The support of other EU members for Ireland is something built on a lengthy tradition of diplomatic engagement at many levels, a point which the Taoiseach's predecessor, Deputy Enda Kenny, made in the year after the Brexit referendum. It has been demonstrated in support for Ireland in negotiating guidelines. Any engagement with partners is particularly welcome but we need to understand the strategy and what is specifically being promoted. I suggest that in the coming weeks and months, the primary focus will remain the trilateral discussion between London, Dublin and Brussels. We are clearly represented by Mr. Barnier in the negotiations but the role of commentators on the sidelines is not an option for us.

Will the Taoiseach outline what arrangements he will make to avoid a relapse into the dysfunction evident earlier this year, which saw the Taoiseach go seven weeks without speaking with the British Prime Minister, an unprecedented gap in recent times? Did the Taoiseach meet or have discussions with Mr. Viktor Orbán about the migration issue? I have seen commentary to the effect that the Taoiseach finds it acceptable that Hungary does not want other people entering its jurisdiction and that it should just be for Hungarians. If every country in Europe adopted that philosophy, there would be one hell of a migration crisis. There is also the matter of Mr. Orbán's approach to media and European democratic norms, which leaves much to be desired. I am surprised at the degree to which he is being accommodated and facilitated, both by the European People's Party - of which Fine Gael is a member - and the broader European Union. No more than Britain's membership of the Single Market, this applies to core values of the European Union, which are steadily being eroded by certain political elements.

I strongly agree with the points made by Deputy Micheál Martin and there is an allegation that the European People's Party is giving legitimacy to views being expressed by members which would not be countenanced even a few years ago. I will focus on one question. In response to the migration crisis, Irish naval vessels have been deployed in the Mediterranean, originally simply on search and rescue missions. Later they have become part of Operation Sophia. The Taoiseach is aware there has been very serious and significant criticism of Operation Sophia by Médecins sans Frontières, which has indicated that migrants are being returned to Libya, where in almost every case they are being tortured, raped and abused. The Irish Naval Service has indicated that in every case it has landed people in Italy. Has the Taoiseach had discussions with the Italian authorities and is it his understanding that they will continue to allow persons rescued by the Irish Naval Service to be landed on Italian soil?

Will the Taoiseach set out the structure of negotiations from here in respect of Brexit? If we are not on the last lap, it is certainly a crucial phase. Could I have some clarity as to whether this remains a bilateral negotiation, which is the correct approach, or whether the Taoiseach will take the advice of his partner in government, Deputy Micheál Martin, and adopt a trilateral approach? It would be extremely dangerous and the British have very clearly sought to peel off Dublin in order to sow some sort of dissent.

The Deputy is misinterpreting me. It is the process we have had for a year.

We are talking about what happens now. It would of course be welcome for the British to see the light of reality and soften their position, as the Taoiseach termed it. I put it to the Taoiseach that there is no room for him to soften our position or the approach that this would be a common and shared European position. Will the Taoiseach speak about the intergovernmental conference that is upcoming and whether Brexit will feature on the agenda?

I will begin with the following quotes: "A nation which expects its biological survival from immigrants will not survive" and "Europe's migrants are Muslim invaders, not refugees". Are these two quotes from Mein Kampf? Not at all, they are from the mouth of Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orbán, who attended this Council meeting. I wish to ask the Taoiseach about some comments that he made about Mr. Orbán and his views when he attended the Council. The Taoiseach was asked if he would describe Mr. Orbán's comments as racist or xenophobic.

The Taoiseach was quoted as saying that he was not sure he would go as far as using those terms. The Taoiseach seemed to provide a rational justification for Mr. Orbán's anti-migrant views when he said:

Viktor's view is that he wants Hungary to stay Hungarian ... Hungary doesn't need migrants ... Western European countries and northern European countries need migration. We see it differently in western Europe.

The Taoiseach was perhaps pointing to labour shortages as the issue rather than the racist and xenophobic views of Mr. Orbán. Was the Taoiseach quoted correctly? If so, does he stand over those comments?

I will ask again. I have asked already about Orbán as well and about the rise of racist and far-right forces, of which he is one of the most prominent. In the same comments with regard to Orbán's racist agenda, the Taoiseach said we have to respect that other countries come from a different perspective. Does the Taoiseach regret that? The Helsinki committee said this was very disappointing, in that he was legitimising and normalising this racist far-right narrative.

We should not respect the terrifying echoes of the politics of the far right from the 1930s that we are getting from Orbán and other forces like him. We need to resolutely oppose this, not respect it, because it is very dangerous. Should the EU not also do some soul-searching about how its policies have contributed to the conditions that can give rise to the far right, especially in the areas I have mentioned, including housing?

Thank you, Deputy. If you want an answer we need to give some time to the Taoiseach.

The report I mentioned shows it is really diabolical and worsening throughout the European Union.

Now, Taoiseach, unfortunately we have only two minutes remaining.

The negotiations will be bilateral, not trilateral. They will be negotiations between the EU on the one side and the UK on the other. I have explained why that should be the case. I agree with Deputy McDonald's analysis as to why that should continue to be the case.

There will not be any softening of our position on our core objectives. They include the common travel area, no hard border between Northern Ireland and Ireland and minimising the disruption to free trade between Britain and Ireland.

I did not have a bilateral meeting with Mr. Orbán at the European Council. However, he was at the European Council, obviously, because he is the democratically elected Prime Minister of Hungary.

Did the Taoiseach meet him?

The European political parties, as we all know, are wide churches and umbrella organisations. I know the Czech Government, which I think is in the Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe Party, ALDE - the liberal group of which Fianna Fáil is part - has almost identical views to Viktor Orbán on migration. Deputy Micheál Martin may wish to check that out and see how similar the views of the three or four relevant countries are in that regard. The social democratic grouping includes a large number of former communists who are recent converts to democracy, human rights and freedom. They come from a tradition that is not too far from putting people in gulags.

They would not have been let in if they still espoused those views.

Sinn Féin is in the European United Left–Nordic Green Left, which is a group that is highly Eurosceptic and euro-cynical. I know Sinn Féin denies that it is a Eurosceptic party but it continues to be in a group of people who want to break up the European Union in many cases. I am not altogether sure who the European bedfellows of Solidarity–People Before Profit are.

They do not give an inch to racism – not one of them.

If there are any, I shudder to think of some of the more extreme opinions they may have.

Anyway, I do not agree with Viktor Orbán on these points. I do not agree with him on migration, civil rights or academic freedom. On the one occasion we had a bilateral meeting in Budapest – the Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy McEntee, was there – we had a very robust discussion on those matters. It is an active debate within the European People's Party group as to whether that party should stay in the EPP. There is a view from some that keeping the party in moderates it. This has allowed the Central European University to stay in Budapest, for example. Quite a number of others take a different view that Fidesz no longer has a place in the EPP.

Reference was made to reflecting and understanding people's views. I am not so much interested in the views of politicians but I am interested in the views of people who vote for politicians. I often wonder why Hungarian people or people in eastern European countries vote for the politicians they do. I often wonder why people vote for Trump, why people voted for Brexit and why people voted for populist parties of the left, like Syriza, in Greece, or populist parties of the right throughout western Europe. Genuine people, real people, have real concerns. People have concerns about globalisation and migration. They have concerns about inequality of economic opportunity. I believe it is wrong for us to dismiss people's concerns. Dismissing concerns or treating people who vote in a certain way with disrespect – we have seen that from people so many times - is the wrong approach.

Thank you, Taoiseach. We are out of time.

When we do not agree with people we should, at least in our own heads, try to understand why they have the views they have. That is the best way we can change them. If we want to change the views of others, we need to try to understand what they think and then convince them otherwise. We should not swat them away and dismiss them in an elitist fashion. If we do, what happens is that they vote in the way they do.

That is why I mentioned housing.

Written Answers are published on the Oireachtas website.
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