Dáil Éireann Debate, Wednesday - 3 October 2018
45. Deputy Jack Chambers asked the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence his plans to address the manning level issues in the event that the pay commission does not make credible and functional recommendations to address the recruitment and retention issues of the Defence Forces; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [40260/18]
View answerWhat are the Minister of State's intentions to address manning level issues in the event that the pay commission does not make credible and functional recommendations to address the recruitment and retention matters in the Defence Forces? We know from the PDFORRA conference this week how a large number of soldiers, sailors and the Air Corps personnel are buying themselves out of the Defence Forces because they are unhappy with pay and conditions. Looking at their hours, many are working at rates below the national minimum wage and there are still breaches of the working time directive. The Chief of Staff will have made a plea to the Public Service Pay Commission and he clearly does not have the same hope that the Minister of State does in giving time and space to the commission. What will the Minister of State do if the commission does not progress solutions to the serious recruitment and retention issues we have?
As I have outlined, the Public Service Pay Commission was established to provide objective advice to the Government relating to public service remuneration policy. The Department of Defence has provided detailed data to enable the commission to undertake an evidence-based analysis of recruitment and retention issues. The commission's work is ongoing and I have no intention of speculating on possible outcomes of that work. I assure the Deputy, however, that the Government remains committed to reaching the authorised strength of 9,500 personnel for the Permanent Defence Force, PDF. There is ongoing recruitment to achieve that target and a range of alternative recruitment approaches are being developed. A working group is examining the scope for greater use of direct entry recruitment for certain specialist positions and steps are being progressed to enable former members of the Permanent Defence Force who have sought-after skills to re-enter the PDF. I will continue to work closely with the Chief of Staff in developing these approaches.
The Permanent Defence Force continues to offer excellent career opportunities for serving personnel and for new entrants. Ensuring that the terms and conditions of serving members of the Permanent Defence Force are fair and balanced is also a key consideration. There are a range of actions outlined in the White Paper on Defence from 2015 that are aimed at advancing this goal. A commissioning from the ranks programme has been initiated and is under way. The criteria for extending service beyond 12 years have been revised and an examination of retirement ages for enlisted personnel has been prioritised. A gap analysis of skill sets in the Permanent Defence Force has also been brought forward. In addition, the military authorities have introduced further initiatives to enhance work-life balance, and this is also to be welcomed.
Last year I initiated a review of the conciliation and arbitration scheme for the Permanent Defence Force and I have recently received the report from the independent chair, Mr. Gerard Barry. I thank him for that work. I am reviewing the recommendations contained therein and I look forward to engaging fully with all parties in progressing reforms to the existing scheme. The current challenges being faced by the Defence Forces are not unique and are being experienced by other military organisations internationally. I will continue to work closely with the Secretary General and the Chief of Staff to develop appropriate management responses.
What recommendations did the Minister of State make to the pay commission? In a response to me in May, the Minister of State said he was not sure if I had read the recent headline in the national newspapers. Here are a few headlines the Minister of State might have read this week: "Crew shortage prevents Naval Service vessels setting sail"; "Taoiseach 'cannot confirm' naval vessels did not sail due to staff shortages"; "Defence Forces staff 'buying themselves out of service'"; "PDFORRA: Hundreds of Defence Forces personnel have paid to get out of service over pay rates"; "Irish Defence Forces troops left stranded in Syria after flights 'delayed'"; "Revealed: Members of Defence Forces being paid less than the minimum wage ... unless they work additional hours". This is the reality of the recruitment and retention issue we have. My fear is the Minister of State keeps kicking the pay commission's report to touch and we will not see measured recommendations from it. The Minister of State is leading an area of the public service with a unique difference from other areas that he keeps referencing.
Recruitment is up but the numbers keep going down. When will the Minister of State plug the gap so we can see a levelling of numbers and meet the White Paper targets? These are the headlines that the Minister of State must defend and reference rather than trying to put a positive spin on this, as he did in May.
The minimum payment for a Defence Forces member is €27,000 and it has increased with the public service stability agreement payment. I am giving the Public Service Pay Commission the time and space to carry out its work. We gave it a very comprehensive joint submission from the Department of Defence and military management, which worked very hard on this evidence-based document. It is exactly what the pay commission sought. I will not predetermine the outcome of the pay commission's work and I will allow it do its work. It is a fully independent body away from the political sphere.
These are people who will look at this in a very independent way. Allowing them to look at the challenges we face is the proper way to go about this. We have given them evidence-based data. It is not for me to recommend-----
No, it is not. This is a pay commission. The Deputy might want to go back and look at the terms of reference of the pay commission. He spoke about people buying themselves out. There are reasons people have to do so and the Deputy should check them out.
If the Minister of State has made no recommendations, what is he doing as Minister of State with responsibility for defence? An element of contagion has crept in. We have seen issues in the Naval Service in recent days. Has the Minister of State received military advice about how the air ambulance service might be reduced or reassessed because of current difficulties in that section of the Defence Forces? Clearly, an element of contagion is growing across the different sectors of the Defence Forces that is not being addressed.
The Minister of State has admitted that he has made no recommendations to the pay commission. He is sitting back, is waiting to see what it comes up with and will defend whatever his Department officials hand him in a script. What we need is political control. The Minister of State needs to set officialdom aside and start dealing with issues and driving morale up in the Defence Forces because there is a recruitment and retention crisis that does not match that of any other sector in the public service. The Defence Forces led by the Minister of State were the last in line when it came to public pay and conditions and he needs to recognise that, make positive recommendations and have a strong input into the pay commission. It is very worrying that he has made no recommendations. It is hard to know what the role of the Department or the Minister of State is if they have made no recommendations.
The Deputy should go back and look at the confidence and supply agreement because his party signed up to the pay commission and agreed to its terms of reference. I would ask the Deputy to look at the terms of reference. His party signed up to them under the confidence and supply agreement. It is not up to me to make recommendations. It is up to the pay commission to do that. We were asked by the pay commission to provide evidence-based data and we did so with a very comprehensive submission. I worked on that with the Department and military management in a joint submission. I am happy that we have given the kind of data required by the pay commission. I am not hiding behind anyone. I will not shirk from my responsibilities. I have stated clearly that we have challenges across the Defence Forces, and I have outlined those in the joint submission to the pay commission. I am content that we have provided evidence-based data and everything that was required.
