Dáil Éireann Debate, Tuesday - 13 November 2018
78. Deputy Clare Daly asked the Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection if correspondence has been issued to date outlining changes under the total contributions approach 2012 to the pensioners affected by contributory pension changes in 2012; and the reason for the delay in issuing this correspondence in view of the fact that the decision to address this issue was made on 23 January 2018. [46828/18]
View answer93. Deputy Eugene Murphy asked the Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection the number of persons who have already received correspondence in relation to the review of their pension entitlements due to the 2012 pension changes; the number that have yet to receive correspondence; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [46462/18]
View answer97. Deputy John Curran asked the Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection the number of pensioners who have been contacted regarding the interim total contributions approach pension by November 2018; when all pensioners will be contacted; when they will receive payments; the date from which payments will be calculated; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [46822/18]
View answer107. Deputy John Brady asked the Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection the process in place to address the issue of the 2012 pension changes through the total contributions approach; the timeframe for the issuing of correspondence to those affected; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [46856/18]
View answer116. Deputy Joan Collins asked the Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection the reason correspondence reassessing the pension entitlements post-2012 were not issued by the end of October 2018 in view of commitments made by her in this regard. [46894/18]
View answerThe Minister will recall that this time last year we had considerable debate about a group of people who were adversely affected in the 2012 changes to the contributory State pension. The Minister then embarked on a process to amendment it. As of now - November 2018 - how many people have been contacted about this and where are we in the process for payments to those people?
I propose to take Questions Nos. 78, 93, 97, 107 and 116 together.
It is hard to believe that it has been nearly a year. We are getting old.
Pensioners born on or after the 1 September 1946 affected by the 2012 changes in rate bands, can have their contributory state pension entitlement calculated under an interim total contributions approach, TCA. The announced changes also provide for up to 20 years of home caring credits in the pension entitlement calculation for those who took time out of the workplace for parenting or caring duties.
Significant preparatory work was required to design and develop the new, necessary ICT system changes and the necessary legislative provisions to underpin these changes, as initiated last week in the Social Welfare, Pensions and Civil Registration Bill 2018.
The latest data I have identify approximately 79,000 pensioners to be reviewed, of whom just over 70,000 reside in Ireland. The first 11,000 information letters issued last week to Irish residents. I would expect and anticipate that the remainder will issue by the end of this week or early next week at the latest. The 8,000 pensioners who are resident outside of Ireland are expected to receive letters from us in December. The Department waited until we had access to end of month data before issuing letters as we wanted to capture as many of those pensioners as possible who will be entitled to a review.
The letter informs pensioners that the Department will contact them again directly with either the outcome of their individual review, where sufficient information is available to us, or to request further information regarding gaps in their social insurance records. It is not necessary for people to contact the Department on this matter in that we will do all the heavy lifting for them.
The examination of social insurance records is under way. Reviews and payments will commence in the first quarter of 2019. Where an increase is awarded, it was agreed by this Parliament last year that it will be backdated to 30 March 2018, or the person's 66th birthday if later and arrears paid. Pensioners who do not qualify for an increase as a result of this review will continue to receive their existing rate of pension.
I thank the Minister for her reply. As she said, it is a long time ago and much water has gone under the bridge. When we discussed the matter this time last year we were hopeful that by the end of the year people might have received payments but now it is to be in the first quarter of next year. I have some concerns that the letters are only going out. The Minister said that 11,000 letters had been issued to date. I am concerned that the Minister said the Department will do all the work. It will still be up to the individuals to be satisfied that the intended changes have actually been made and applied to them correctly. If they want to appeal the decision it would be some time down the road before those people might see their payments.
There were two real anomalies arising from the changes that occurred in 2012 that need to be addressed. Perhaps the Minister could comment on them. One relates to the period of time that some people were out of work due to caring and the averaging of contributions by moving to a total contributory system. The second issue has not been mentioned and it relates to the total number of contributions required to be eligible for consideration in the first instance. Prior to 2012, it was 260 contributions but in the change in 2012 it went to 520 contributions. Does the Minister's proposal recognise those people who had 260 contributions?
The Minister might find it surprising that I welcome the fact that 11,000 letters have issued as of last week. Hopefully, we will see multiples of that number this week. A total of 79,000 letters need to be issued prior to Christmas and 70,000 of those are to issue to people who currently live in the State. That is welcome news but it has been a long time coming. There are, however, still concerns. People have asked me what they need to do when they receive the letter. Do they need to request a review or does that kick in automatically? People need to be given assurance when the Minister says they do not need to do anything and that the review will automatically kick in.
There are other concerns with regard to the 20 years for caring duties. What do people need to do to satisfy that? I have asked questions on this matter on a number of occasions. People might not have the necessary correspondence or proof to satisfy the criteria. What exactly is the process around that and what do people need to do to satisfy the Department's criteria in that regard? I would appreciate some clarity on those points.
Peace has broken out.
It might not last long.
You may well be right on that.
I will get the Minister in the next round.
As soon as I say it, it will be over. To answer the Deputies' questions, the letter is quite lengthy and it explains exactly what needs to happen and who needs to do what. In the main, people will not have to do anything and I will explain why. I will answer Deputy Curran's questions first. It is 520 contributions because these people have already qualified for the new pension. However, they received a reduced rate because of the averaging.
I will now address the issue of gaps in a person's record. The balance of the letters will be sent out by the end of this week to all Irish residents, or the beginning of next week at the latest. As we have their records, we already know that in 65% to 70% of cases people are entitled to an uplift. We have already done a trawl of our internal systems to identify people who will get an uplift. They will be told they are getting an uplift, that the review is to be conducted, how much their new payment will be and when it will come into effect.
There is not a delay. It could not have been done without legislation being passed and I, along with other Deputies, will attempt to do that, starting tomorrow. We will automatically be able to tell the majority of people who have a full record on the system what their new entitlement will be. The people who will need to help us with the conducting of the review are those who have gaps in their contributions. Some people will be able to tell us the reason for the gaps. In many cases, it will be due to caring for children and we will already have the children's birth dates and PPS numbers but if we do not have them, we will ask for them. In other cases, the gaps will be due to people looking after wives, husbands, grandparent, aunts or some other loved one. It will literally be as easy as giving us the information. People need to be reassured that there is probably no legal way of proving a gap from 1977. We are, however, doing this collectively as a Parliament because it is the right thing to do, that is, to look after the people who were adversely affected by the changes in 2012. We are not going to further punish people by putting them through loads of hoops. We want to give these people the money they are entitled to.
I am glad we are making the progress we are. It might be a bit slow but I take the point that the measure required the legislation. From the Minister's comments, I take it that a common sense approach will apply to persons who might not be able to supply documentary evidence for periods of missing contributions where they may have been caring for a parent or someone other than a child. That was my interpretation of what the Minister said she intended.
I am pleased to see the proposed legislation contains the provision for payments to be backdated to March 2018, which is what the Minister said in her reply. Unfortunately the legislation does not provide a payment or a commencement date. This is a matter for the Minister. I welcome the backdated payment is in the legislation.
I have one final concern. As there is a period of up to 20 years allowed in this measure for caring - I acknowledge this is an interim total contributions system - it indicates that it is being viewed over a 40 year working life cycle. I hope it does not mean this is the policy position in terms of our general pension as we go forward with regard to total contributions proper, rather than the interim measure.
I agree with Deputy Curran's point. It is a critical one and we will come back to that in other discussions and debates in the near future. I want a categorical assurance, as do many of the 79,000 people who are entitled to see their money restored to the rate it should be, that those backdated payments will be made in the first quarter of next year. Can the Minister give a categorical assurance to the people who are entitled to increases that they will get that money backdated in the first quarter of 2019?
My second point is where the criticism comes in, which is no surprise.
While there is retrospection up to 2018, many people have been impacted from 2012 up to now and the retrospection should go all the way back. I am critical of the fact that this is not the case as are organisations such as Age Action and the people who have been impacted since 2012. That is where the criticism is. This is a welcome first step but that is all it is. We need now to have it paid retrospectively to 2012.
Regarding Deputy Curran's question, 2012 does have the conditionality of a 40-year life span but it is because we have the 20 years of caring credits as opposed to what we would have historically had, which was a 30-year working average life span but only ten years of credits. That does not presuppose that this is what 2020 will look like. The public consultation has not been finished. I thank the Deputies who have made submissions to that. The outcome has not been determined. What the Deputy certainly cannot expect to have is 30 years and 20 years caring. If one goes up, the other goes up and if one goes down, the other goes down, which eventually will mean the same result. I would like to be as flexible as I can with regard to caring credits in the new system.
I can categorically give Deputy Brady a commitment that the back payments will be made from 30 March 2018 because €55 million is allocated in the budget this year to make sure the money is there for those people. I cannot give him a commencement date because I do not know how quickly the legislation will pass but, hopefully, it will pass. A new IT platform is also needed. We have a new interface screen on mywelfare.ie to interact with people in a much more friendly and interactive way. The new system will go live in January, I hope, but I cannot tell the Deputy it is going to be the second week in January, just in case.
