Dáil Éireann Debate, Tuesday - 13 November 2018
85. Deputy Willie O'Dea asked the Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection the steps she has taken to minimise the impact of Brexit on the current reciprocal arrangements for social insurance schemes, social assistance schemes and child benefit between Ireland and the United Kingdom; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [46809/18]
View answerI submitted the question because, as the Minister will be aware, approximately 135,000 Irish residents are in receipt of a British pension. Approximately 35,000 people in Britain are getting an Irish pension. I want to ensure the arrangements to pay pensions on both sides will continue seamlessly despite the decision of the UK to leave the EU.
I thank the Deputy for raising this, particularly on the day when we may have a deal. It is important to note that the social security arrangements between the UK and the EU 27 have not changed. The future operation of arrangements will be determined as part of the complex process of negotiating the UK’s exit from the EU. My key area of concern is the impact of Brexit on the current reciprocal arrangements for social insurance schemes, social assistance schemes and child benefit between Ireland and the UK, including Northern Ireland.
The maintenance of the common travel area arrangements is one of the Government’s four Brexit priorities. The importance of maintaining the common travel area was acknowledged in Prime Minister May’s letter of 29 March 2017, which triggered Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union, the joint EU-UK progress report agreed at the European Council on 15 December 2017 and the protocol to the draft withdrawal agreement published by the Commission on 28 February 2018. It has also been acknowledged in the technical paper issued by the UK Government on 13 September 2018.
I met the UK Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, the Right Honourable Esther McVey, on Monday 23 April 2018, along with all of her officials. I emphasised my objective of ensuring that the reciprocity of social welfare rights and entitlements, which currently exists for Irish and UK citizens moving within Ireland and between Ireland and Britain under the common travel area, are safeguarded and maintained. I am happy that we have a broad agreement to preserve the status quo in that regard.
I have a dedicated team in my Department which is conducting a deep analysis of scenarios on a scheme-by-scheme basis and contingency planning is ongoing for all outcomes, including a no-deal or worst-case outcome, which hopefully we will not require.
I accept the Minister's point about people's intentions but is she aware of a report published today which was presented by a joint human rights committee set up under the Good Friday Agreement and concluded that the common travel area would benefit from greater legal certainty to ensure the smooth operation of reciprocal rights after Brexit? It also stated the common travel area is not underpinned by a single legal agreement but by a hotchpotch of laws. Does the Minister agree the common travel area would benefit from greater legal certainty? What steps is the Minister taking to ensure greater legal certainty is provided? Will whatever provisions are necessary be in place by 29 March?
I have a dedicated team in the Department. They have been working for almost a year on each individual scheme that has reciprocal rights between Great Britain, Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland to ascertain what exactly we need to do to maintain those reciprocal arrangements. I read the report with interest and was curious as to why it came out this morning but that is the nature of it. It stated that we require greater legal certainty regarding the articulation of the common travel area. It is untrue to say it does not exist in legislation. It exists in much legislation. It would be more ideal if it existed in just one Act. We will need to move to put some sort of an agreement together. That is what is being worked on. I suggest it will be finalised long before 29 March but I will keep the Deputy posted and let him know.
The Minister referred to the analysis being conducted in her Department and the study being done on various scenarios including a no-deal scenario. Is it possible for the Minister to share that analysis with the House? We are all getting queries on this matter. We all need to reassure people who are coming to us. Can the Minister confirm that the present seamless reciprocal arrangements will continue after Brexit regardless of what happens with Brexit, deal or no deal?
Once the outcome of the analysis is complete and the negotiations are complete, I will be happy to share the analysis with the House but the outcome will probably be evident at that stage because the ambition of both Esther McVey and I is continuity of the existing arrangements. The only reason the Deputy would be surprised is if something goes askew on that and we do not have it but then we will all be very surprised. She and I have exactly the same ambition. There are long-standing relationships between the people of Ireland and the people of the UK. We share common ground in tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of human capital. We will ensure the reciprocal arrangements that exist between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, particularly on child benefit and all the social insurance and assistance schemes we have, are enshrined into the future. Until it is done, it is not done so I cannot give the Deputy much more information until it is complete, other than our ambition.
