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Taoiseach's Meetings and Engagements

Dáil Éireann Debate, Wednesday - 28 November 2018

Wednesday, 28 November 2018

Questions (2, 3, 4)

Richard Boyd Barrett

Question:

2. Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent visit to County Derry. [47965/18]

View answer

Micheál Martin

Question:

3. Deputy Micheál Martin asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his last visit to Derry. [48110/18]

View answer

Mary Lou McDonald

Question:

4. Deputy Mary Lou McDonald asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent visit to County Derry. [48233/18]

View answer

Oral answers (13 contributions)

I propose to answer questions Nos. 2 to 4, inclusive, together.

I visited Derry city on Friday 26 October, where I had several engagements. I was pleased to visit the Apprentice Boys headquarters and museum where I enjoyed a tour of the museum. I also had the opportunity to meet the chairman of the management committee, Mr. William Moore, and some of his colleagues. I then visited Creggan Enterprises in the Rath Mór centre in Creggan, where I spoke with local business people and members of the community. I also had the opportunity to meet those involved in projects operating from the centre. During my visit, I also briefly met the local MP, Ms Elisha McCallion. Finally, that evening I spoke at the St Columb’s College annual dinner which this year was in honour of one of St Columb’s former students, Mr. Mark Durkan.

While my visit to Derry was short, it was a welcome opportunity for engagement with people from all communities. I believe that visits like this by me as Taoiseach and by other Ministers are important in the context of our overall North-South relations, particularly at a time when the formal structures of the North-South Ministerial Council are not active.

I appreciate that the Taoiseach's visit was short and I welcome the fact that he went to Mark Durkan's former college to honour him. The Taoiseach was honouring a remarkable contribution to politics and to peace on the island of Ireland. Mr. Durkan was a close confidant of, and great adviser to, John Hume. He was a member of the British Parliament. Regrettably, he lost his seat in the last general election. He is a big loss to politics in Northern Ireland. He would have cast his vote in Westminster if he had been elected to support the draft withdrawal treaty on Brexit, which is now before the British Parliament. In many ways, honouring Mark Durkan illustrates the silence in Northern Ireland of the anti-Brexit majority, who do not have any public or parliamentary forum through which they can articulate their views on Brexit. It is my genuine belief that the collapse of the Executive originally and the absence of any Executive and assembly is something that has caused great damage to Northern Ireland in terms of its capacity to make a meaningful contribution to the Brexit debate. In particular, if the Executive and assembly had not been collapsed they would act as a potential bridge between the two communities, an opportunity to channel a practical approach to Brexit that has been sorely missed to date. I recall the letter that former Deputy First Minister, Martin McGuinness, and First Minister, Arlene Foster, wrote together, basically referencing the unique circumstances of Northern Ireland and the desire of both to work together to manage the issues facing Northern Ireland in the Brexit context. How polarised it has become since that joint letter was issued. The absence of representation at all levels is a big issue for the North in the context of Brexit.

It is most welcome that the Taoiseach visited Derry on that occasion, albeit for a brief spell. I agree that it is extremely important that he and members of his Government regularly visit communities in the North across the board. That in and of itself is an important confidence-building measure.

I disagree that the anti-Brexit majority has been silent. The facts speak to the contrary. In fact, it has met the Taoiseach in political form - ourselves from Sinn Féin, the Alliance Party of Northern Ireland, the SDLP and the Greens. The anti-Brexit majority has spoken loudly well beyond politics in the business community with which we, and no doubt the Taoiseach, have worked closely, through agriculture, academia, the trade unions and the community sector - one could not miss them. The message is unmissable regarding the anti-Brexit position.

Of course it is absolutely disgraceful that the power-sharing institutions are not up and running. I absolutely agree with that point. However, the Taoiseach should not overestimate the extent to which the institutions would have influenced the Brexit debate. He should look to Scotland. The Scots will go into the House of Commons, 80 or so of them, and vote against the draft withdrawal agreement because Scottish interests are not to the forefront. They are irrelevant in the Westminster debate. They will tell us, if we have ears to listen, that they have been marginalised. It has been a box-ticking exercise. In fact, Scottish members of the House of Commons went so far as to leave on one occasion, such was their level of frustration. Brexit in an essential way is a very English phenomenon. It is a dispute, but that is just in a matter of shade. Brexit is happening and we need to be prepared for it.

What, from the Taoiseach's perspective, is the plan now to get the institutions back up and running? What is the game plan from Government here in Dublin?

I concur with Deputy Micheál Martin. Mr. Mark Durkan very much deserves his honours. He was a very effective politician as a Minister and an MP. He is an able persuader and a witty and articulate parliamentarian. He made a very thoughtful but also very witty speech on the night. I regret that he lost his seat because it has left the city of Derry unrepresented in Westminster, which leaves Derry and the residents of the Foyle constituency without a vote on Brexit.

We understand there will be a series of votes in the House of Commons; it will not just be a simple "Yes" or "No" vote on the withdrawal agreement. It will be possible for MPs to table amendments on which there will be votes. There could be specific votes on the backstop and on whether the United Kingdom should remain in the EU customs union. That matter was only defeated by three votes a few months ago when MPs last voted on it. There could be a vote on whether the UK should stay in the Single Market. The Scottish National Party, SNP, is strongly pushing that option. There could even be a vote on whether there should be a people's vote. It is regrettable that seven constituencies in Northern Ireland will be disenfranchised and will not have a say on this important matter that affects them so much.

On a level beyond simple arithmetic, I am also concerned that many MPs in the House of Commons are not hearing the full story from Northern Ireland. Many English MPs - Deputy McDonald is right to identify much of this as an English phenomenon - do not know a great deal about Northern Ireland. They do not read the Belfast Telegraph or the Irish News. They are not really hearing from business people or farmers in Northern Ireland. They are hearing what they are hearing around the tea and coffee rooms and bars in Westminster. That is why it is important to be there and Sinn Féin MPs are not. The people of Northern Ireland are being badly let down in that regard.

I was asked about the game plan. To get the assembly and the Executive back up and running, we want to work with the British Government to encourage the two major parties, the DUP and Sinn Féin, to come together, make compromises, put aside their differences and build trust. We want them to form an Executive and restore the assembly. It is my hope that if and when the United Kingdom Parliament at Westminster approves the withdrawal agreement, then at least we will have certainty about what is going to happen and what is not going to happen for the next two years or more. I hope that allows a window of opportunity for the parties to come together and to agree to the establishment of an Executive and assembly again. In the absence of that, we will ensure that the other institutions, the British-Irish Council and the British-Irish Intergovernmental Conference, work, operate and meet.

A pre-feasibility study into the flooding issues in Ballinhassig has been completed by the Office of Public Works (OPW) and has identified a preferred option for the area. Further assessment of the environmental impacts are currently being progressed to inform the planning process, after which the project will progress to planning and detailed design. It is not possible to provide a timeframe for the project at this time but provision has been made in OPW’s multi annual financial profiles for the progression of the scheme to implementation.

As we will not agree on the issue of abstentionism, I will not labour the point. I assure the Taoiseach that the people of Foyle in Derry are well represented by Elisha McCallion. He said he met Ms McCallion. It was remiss of me not to mark the very significant contribution of Mark Durkan. Of course, the Taoiseach will not be surprised to hear me say that I was not sorry he lost his seat to my colleague, Elisha McCallion.

In any event, there is a split in the executive parties in the North; the DUP is for Brexit. Any fanciful idea of conjuring up an anti-Brexit position or a pro-withdrawal-agreement position from the Executive is not grounded in reality. I believe that in the 1930s Eamon de Valera stood for election in South Down and he was the last Fianna Fáil abstentionist. Of course, he did not go and take an oath in the House of Commons for the reasons that none of us here would.

He did what Mark Durkan did. It is called the empty formula.

It is not an empty formula when uttered in the Palace of Westminster.

It was how Mark Durkan did it.

I did not interrupt Deputy Martin.

It is entirely different matter than in the nascent Free State when the Dáil was finding its feet. They are different scenarios. We could debate that all day. The core issue on which we can agree is the necessity to get the institutions of government back up and running. To that end for the Taoiseach's benefit, I want to make it very clear that we again stand ready to do the lifting that is required to make that happen. As the Taoiseach will know, because he travelled north at the time, in February I thought we had it. I thought we had a sufficiency of consensus to move forward. Nobody was more disappointed than I when that did not happen.

I invite the Taoiseach to elaborate on how he sees the pathway forward and the resolution of the outstanding issues.

The Tánaiste, the Secretary of State and I have some thoughts as to how we might proceed and how we might try to make another attempt to get the parties together and get an Executive and assembly up and running. Outlining that on the floor of the House with everyone listening is probably not the most conducive way to get an outcome. I will have a follow-up meeting with the assembly parties in the next few weeks and that is probably the place to discuss it.

We are discussing the collapse of the Executive and assembly, which was very much connected to the controversy relating to the renewable heating initiative. I have been following periodically the inquiry. I was very interested to read all about Sinn Féin's involvement in renewable heating, which was much greater than we realised at the time. I was particularly interested to read about the email correspondence between Mairtín Ó Muilleoir, who, of course, was the Minister for Finance at the time, and Ted Howell-----

I call him "Twitter".

-----who would be a senior republican, if I might put it that way. Among the documents uncovered in the inquiry was an email from Mairtín Ó Muilleoir to Ted Howell, a senior republican who held no elected office whatsoever, asking if he would be content for Mr. Ó Muilleoir to "sign off the business plan on Wednesday". That is documentary evidence that Sinn Féin Ministers seek approval and consent from "senior republicans" when it comes to major decisions in government. I would be curious to know if Deputy McDonald would like to comment or expand on that and maybe inform us of the extent to which she and those on her front bench require approval from senior republicans for decisions.

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