Dáil Éireann Debate, Wednesday - 20 February 2019
20. Deputy Darragh O'Brien asked the Minister for Housing, Planning and Local Government when a referendum will be held regarding the State affording constitutional protection to the supply of water services; the status of preparations to hold a referendum in this regard; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [8531/19]
View answerThe Joint Oireachtas Committee on Future Funding of Domestic Water Services in April 2017 recommended that a referendum on public ownership of Irish Water should be held. That is a recommendation that I and my party support. I want to know when the Government intends to hold a referendum regarding the State affording constitutional protection to the supply of water services. I note that, in November last, the Cabinet gave the Minister approval to do so. I would be obliged if the Minister could provide an update.
The Government is firmly committed to public water services remaining in public ownership, as reflected in the Water Services Acts and in the Water Services Policy Statement 2018-2025. There is widespread support for this view, and the report of the Joint Committee on Future Funding of Domestic Water Services in April 2017 supported the concept of a referendum. The committee recommended that the wording be carefully scrutinised so as not to impact upon the status of group water schemes and individual domestic water supplies.
Provisions in respect of the holding of a referendum are contained in the Private Members' Bill initiated by Deputy Joan Collins currently on Committee Stage in the Dáil. Detailed examination of the wording of this Bill, which I have undertaken in consultation with the Attorney General, indicates that it would give rise to unacceptable risks. I have articulated these concerns in my engagement with the Joint Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government. The Office of the Parliamentary Legal Advisor has separately and independently advised the committee on the Bill.
I have sought to bring forward amendments to the Bill and on 11 November last, I received Government approval for the priority drafting of proposed amendments to the Bill. These focus on retaining the entity charged with the provision of public water services in public ownership. I have written to the chairperson of the committee on this matter as recently as 21 January of this year and will continue to keep the committee updated on progress made on the drafting of the proposed amendments.
The Minister mentioned Deputy Joan Collins's Bill, which is on Committee Stage. I have discussed this with Deputy Joan Collins and indeed other colleagues from the Opposition side, including Deputy Ó Broin.
I refer to the proposed amendments which the Minister sought to have drafted on, as he mentioned, 11 November last. How many amendments is the Minister looking to make to that Bill? I have heard of 20 or 21 different potential changes to the Bill. I note the Minister mentioned that careful consideration needs to be given to group water schemes. We understand that these matters are not dealt with easily but what I am trying to get a handle on is timeframe. There was an expectation, more importantly, among the public that we would be able to hold a referendum this year in line with the local and European elections. I am certain that there is a desire for the people to retain the ownership of water as a resource in Ireland. Could the Minister give me a timeframe that he is aiming for on this and also the level of engagement he has had with the Attorney General? Does the Minister expect to be going back to the Attorney General's office in advance of bringing forward further amendments? I would like to get a handle on the timeframe.
The Government is committed to public water services remaining in public ownership. There is no doubt about that. I accept people might be frustrated with the time that this is taking but there are risks here, as the Deputy has identified. There are risks to private wells, risks to group water schemes and risks to the operation of Irish Water itself.
For a number of months, I have been trying to get agreement around a proposed wording. In March of last year, I met a number of Deputies and I spoke about and gave documentation on the 14 tests that any wording would have to pass so that those risks would be mitigated against and there would not be any unintended consequences. From March until November, no one else was able to come up with wording that would pass those 14 tests. In the end, the Department officials came up with wording and that is what I got agreement to bring to the Attorney General at the Cabinet meeting in November.
From memory, there are probably four sections that we are looking at in terms of amendments to address the unintended consequences that we think are in the Bill. It is not the fault of the Bill. It is a good attempt. Obviously, because of the unintended consequences and the risks, we had to make sure these risks were covered.
I think we will be looking at four sections. I am in the hands of the Office of the Attorney General regarding getting the wording right and having it ready for a future referendum. It was certainly not believed there was enough time to finalise the wording, have a proper and full debate on the issues and then hold a referendum in May. We want all sides in the House to agree the wording of the proposal and we want to have a good campaign so that the public understands the importance of what is being proposed. We do not want to do anything that might cause risk and that includes rushing the referendum.
I do not think that would be rushing it. I understand it is complex. All of us understand that. What I am trying to understand, however, is how complex this is. I am also trying to get a good handle on the proposed timeframe. When does the Minister envisage that the proposals will be finalised by the Attorney General? The Minister mentioned that he is in the hands of that office. This is important. The Office of the Attorney General has many important issues to deal with. I would have thought, however, that one absolute priority would be to ensure water resources in Ireland remain in public ownership and that question is put to the people.
Does the Minister believe we will be able to hold a referendum this year? I have met officials from unions, such as SIPTU, representing water services workers in local authorities. They are, understandably, watching closely in the context of the proposed transfer to Irish Water to ensure water remains in public ownership. I am trying to understand when that will happen. I have not got that answer so far this morning from the Minister. What is his best guesstimate, if that is the case? Has the Attorney General actually prioritised this matter?
If not, will the Minister seek, through Government and in conjunction with his Cabinet colleagues, that this issue be made an absolute priority within the Office of the Attorney General? All of us understand the pressures of Brexit, so we do not necessarily need the answers on that element. We have our omnibus legislation prepared and ready to go and the Opposition has ceded time on that. That is fine. When, however, can we give people an indication as to when this referendum will take place?
This is very important to the Government. Commitments were made and I intend to honour them. It is not, however, as urgent as other things because there is not currently a risk to the public ownership of our water supplies. We are committed to bringing forward a referendum to ensure our water services remain in public ownership. The difficulty has been in finding language that mitigates the risks identified regarding group water schemes, private wells and Irish Water. Many attempts have been made to find the appropriate draft language.
It took some months to do that, longer than I thought. I have also met with the unions on a number of occasions and shared those 14 tests, and I can share them with Deputy O'Brien as well. When I met in March with a number of people on this issue, I expected that other proposals and other ideas for language and wording that would have cross-party support in this House would come forward. They did not, however. Some very smart people are trying to work out a solution to this issue and we now have Government approval on proposed wording. I brought that proposed wording to the Office of the Attorney General in November and he is working on that.
Does the Minister have any idea when that will be done?
At the moment, I cannot-----
Is the Attorney General going to come back to the Minister?
This issue is, of course, important to me. My engagement with the Attorney General at the moment focuses on Brexit and rent legislation and the Attorney General is also dealing with a number of other issues. That is not to say this matter is not important. It has, however, taken some time for us to bring the wording to the Attorney General. His team is now working on that wording. As soon as that is ready, all of us will have wording we can campaign on to ensure the referendum is successful.
