Local Employment Service

Dáil Éireann Debate, Thursday - 4 April 2019

Thursday, 4 April 2019

Questions (5)

Thomas Pringle

Question:

5. Deputy Thomas Pringle asked the Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection to outline the timeframe for the upcoming tendering process for the future provision of employment services nationally; the reason active consideration will not be given to a public procurement process despite the success of local employment services in successfully achieving full-time employment for over 28% of referrals each year and the progression of the remaining caseload to part-time jobs and other pathways to work; the reason successful not-for-profit community holistic models are not being given an equal opportunity to tender for the services despite the problems experienced in countries adopting a privatised model; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [15621/19]

Oral answers (11 contributions)

Deputy Thomas Pringle

This question relates to how the Department is proposing to terminate the community-based employment services under the local employment schemes and job clubs in the country by the end of this year. The Department is initiating a competitive procurement process for future services. It is clear from my previous interactions with the Minister that a payment-by-results arrangement as used in JobPath will be the preferred model. I have severe problems with that.

Deputy Regina Doherty

With respect, before I start reading out my prepared reply I have a question. When did we have the interaction during which I told Deputy Pringle that a payment was my preferred model?

Deputy Thomas Pringle

We have ongoing interactions.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

You have only two minutes, Minister.

Deputy Regina Doherty

I call on Deputy Pringle to take it back, because it is not the case. That is one of a suite of measures that we offer as part of the State. It does not make it better, but it certainly does not make it worse. It is one of the offerings we have.

We use a number of contracted models to procure public employment services to supplement the service provided directly by case officers as part of Intreo. Local employment services, job clubs and JobPath providers all provide such services under different types of contracts. LES and job clubs are on annual contracts that need to be formally renewed every year. They provide for a paid flat fee not related to outcomes achieved. The JobPath providers are engaged under a payment-by-results model with a four year referral commitment due to conclude at the end of 2019.

My Department and I are currently considering how the services provided for the next generation of people who require activation will be maintained after 2019. In addition, in line with the recommendations of the recently published Indecon report on LES and job clubs, we are examining the possibility of a transition to multi-annual contracts under open procurement competition for these services, incorporating some evidence of performance-based fees. I will be before the Oireachtas Joint Committee this afternoon to discuss the matter. In finalising our views and developing proposals for my consideration, the officials in my Department will continue to engage with the relevant stakeholders, as they have done in recent months, to the extent that is appropriate under public procurement guidelines.

I wish to assure the Deputy that we are going to do everything we can within EU procurement rules to ensure the continuity of the highly valuable services, including local employment services and job clubs, without which we would have been unable to work in recent years.

While the precise format of any future contracts has not yet been decided, what has been decided is that we would not have been able to reduce our unemployment when it was at its height and was handed to us in 2011. A total of 457,000 people were out of work on that day. We had in excess of 200,000 people on the long-term unemployment register. Now the figure is down to what we have today, which is 5.3%. The reduction would have been impossible without the absolute expertise, experience and commitment of the people who work in our local employment services and job clubs.

Deputy Thomas Pringle

I take it from what the Minister has said that the tendering process is going to be found that will allow community based programmes to tender. I take it the process will not be totally on a privatised basis. Is that what I can take from the response of the Minister? If that is the case, then it is most welcome but that does not seem to be the way the Department has been going. I call on the Minister to confirm that will be the case and that local employment services will be entitled to tender and apply under the process. I trust they will be given favourable consideration or will be able to compete with privatised firms. I do not think that is the way it will happen but maybe I am wrong or will be proved to be wrong. I would be delighted if the Minister were to prove me wrong.

If she has a contrary view, I would be delighted to hear it.

Deputy Regina Doherty

I hope I have been here long enough to prove the Deputy wrong. Last Thursday, I met representatives from the Irish Local Development Network, ILDN, jobs clubs and CV clubs, which are in all counties and provide invaluable services that Intreo offices and JobPath cannot provide. No two jobseekers have the same barriers to employment so the services the State offers need to recognise that and complement each other. The services that might be suitable for Deputy Pringle might not be suitable for the Deputy sitting beside him, or for me. We need to ensure the complexity of issues facing people who still cannot find work is addressed in the next generation of activation and that employment opportunities, supports and training are available.

The Deputy asked if I would ensure certain people apply for the tender. Nobody is stopping them from applying for the tender but I will make sure they get the support they need to ensure they have the capacity to apply for the tender. No tender has been decided yet and there may not just be one tender, on account of the fact that, as I said, one size does not fit all. We see these services, which we have relied upon since their establishment 35 years ago, very much continuing into the future.

Deputy Thomas Pringle

I am glad to hear the tendering process will be fair and that the people to whom I referred can compete for them. I am interested in the Minister's comments to the effect that no two jobseekers are the same. It is a pity she does not tell JobPath that, because JobPath behaves in a way that suits its own needs. The local employment schemes are very successful and very important, especially as regards the local model they use. The Indecon report showed them to be financially viable and more viable than JobPath, with a cost of €2,544 per placement and a referral rate of 28.8%, compared with a cost per placement at JobPath of €3,718 and a referral rate of 18%. The local schemes provided more employment for €1,200 less and that is vitally important.

Deputy Regina Doherty

I do not know what the obsession is with trying to make everybody be the same.

Deputy Thomas Pringle

The Minister should tell JobPath that.

Deputy Regina Doherty

I am talking about the Deputy's comparison of local employment schemes with jobs clubs, Intreo and JobPath. We have a range of services because we have a range of people with different barriers to getting employment. It is for this reason that we have back to education allowances, job incentive schemes, training opportunities, employment opportunities, youth employment support schemes, over-55s clubs, etc. There are different barriers for different age groups and different geographical areas. We cannot compare apples and oranges and expect to get the same results. The people we send to JobPath are the long-term unemployed who have different barriers to employment from those we send to local employment schemes or CV clubs.

In the near future, I want to see a rationalisation and the finalisation of our offerings in the form of activation services for the next generation and there will be a place for all our services in that.