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Defence Forces Personnel

Dáil Éireann Debate, Thursday - 11 April 2019

Thursday, 11 April 2019

Questions (1)

Jack Chambers

Question:

1. Deputy Jack Chambers asked the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence his views on whether the 8.1% turnover or churn in the Defence Forces is crippling the service; if the Defence Forces are struggling to fill command positions for a rotation of troops attached to the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [17125/19]

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Oral answers (6 contributions)

Those may be famous last words from the Acting Chairman.

I ask the Minister of State with responsibility for defence if he agrees that the current 8.1% turnover or churn in the Defence Forces is crippling the service, as was stated by the Chief of Staff, Vice Admiral Mark Mellett. Is it the case that the Defence Forces are struggling to fill command positions for rotation of troops attached to the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon and will he make a statement on these matters?

I thought the Acting Chairman would be a little more lenient than the Ceann Comhairle or the Leas-Cheann Comhairle, particularly on this morning which seems as if we are in the sunny south east.

The military authorities have advised that there is no issue with regard to filling command positions for a rotation of troops attached to the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon. The 114th Infantry Battalion is due to replace the 113th Infantry Battalion in the area of operations shortly and, with the exception of one junior officer post, which recently became vacant due to unforeseen circumstances, all officer command positions are now filled. A process is under way to fill the junior officer post and this is expected to conclude shortly. 

As the Deputy has pointed out, the overarching turnover of personnel in the Permanent Defence Force was 8.1% in 2018. This rate must be viewed against an overall average departure rate of 6.3% since 2002 with a peak rate of 8.58% in 2012.

Of the 731 personnel who exited the Defence Forces during 2018, the military authorities have advised that 139, or 19%, did so before completing their initial training. The number of trainees within the overarching turnover figure can be significant and in 2017, 742 personnel departed of whom 209, or 28%, were trainees.

A total of 592 trained personnel departed during 2018 and 533 trained personnel departed in 2017. The long-run average is 500. However, the number of trained personnel departing can fluctuate significantly year on year and in recent years, this has ranged from a high of 677 in 2012 to a low of 356 in 2014.

The issue of turnover in an organisation with the unique structures, functional areas and particular skill sets of the Defence Forces is complex.  As the rate of turnover can differ across functional areas, the impact of turnover can vary accordingly. Headline turnover figures do not reflect this complexity.

The Minister of State said that military authorities have advised there is no difficulty but Vice Admiral Mellett said, "There are gaps." He also said:

You are always going to have a churn and a churn is healthy, but I would rather it be down about 5% rather than the 8.1% it is at present. It is that extra per cent that is crippling us at present.

I know from speaking to people who have been deployed overseas that there has been a process of de facto mandatory selection, where personnel have been bounced and semi-threatened into overseas deployment. Some of those people might have familial or personal circumstances which do not suit deployment overseas but attempts have been made to put guns to these people's heads, without necessarily pulling the trigger, and bouncing them into overseas deployment.

A survey of the Representative Association of Commissioned Officers, RACO, shows that domestic and personal commitments are one of the reasons people are leaving the Defence Forces. I welcome deployment overseas but we need to look at the serious nature of what is happening within the Defence Forces. Morale is worsening and people are being bounced into situations. That is confirmed by what Vice Admiral Mellett has had to say. Furthermore, it is concerning that implicit threats have been made to members of the Defence Forces.

As the Deputy knows, Finnish personnel pulled out of the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon, UNIFIL, at the end of 2018. Our military management proposed to me that they would fill that gap for a period of 12 months. We have increased our personnel in that force by approximately 106 or 110 for a period of 12 months from the end of 2018. I was assured by military management at the time that they would be able to fill that gap. I would not have allowed it to happen if we were not able to fill that gap.

I do not believe a gun is put to anybody's head to make them go on overseas service. To judge from the people I have spoken to, a significant number of people want to serve overseas. I am happy to say that the Polish and Hungarians will join us in Lebanon at the end of this year, which will decrease the number of people going overseas next year.

The Minister of State has to agree there were difficulties.

The Minister of State visited the United Nations in New York and was showing a force of strength with the Defence Forces. It is a bit like the emperor with no clothes because the words the Minister of State uses abroad do not match the reality of the morale and retention issues at home. The facts and figures in the RACO climate survey carried out by Amárach bear that out.

People want to go overseas but it does not suit certain people at a particular time. It is because of the gaps and the retention crisis, and because the Minister of State's Department has stopped the acting-up rank being facilitated because of the computer logic of some of the mandarins in his Department that we have this image of a fighting force overseas while Rome burns at home. The Minister of State should be more honest when he is over at the United Nations about the difficulties the Defence Forces are facing. The focus should be less on the Minister of State making a pitch to successfully get a seat on the United Nations Security Council, which I would welcome, and more on supporting our troops. That is the important context.

We have nine different overseas missions currently.

If Defence Forces management tells me it is unable to fulfil any of the commitments, I will listen and take it very much into account. Any overseas mission in which we partake is with the imprimatur and agreement of military management. The Chief of Staff has responsibility to make sure we have the capability and capacity to fulfil our roles overseas. It is up to the Chief of Staff to advise me if there is a situation where the Defence Forces are unable to fulfil that commitment. The commitments we made at the recent UN peacekeeping conference in New York were with the agreement of the military and the Chief of Staff. He was there with me. Any commitments I made were on behalf of the organisation. We had the full support of military management in making any pledges of support.

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