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Taoiseach's Meetings and Engagements

Dáil Éireann Debate, Tuesday - 22 October 2019

Tuesday, 22 October 2019

Questions (1, 2, 3)

Michael Moynihan

Question:

1. Deputy Michael Moynihan asked the Taoiseach if he has met the UUP or Alliance Party leaders recently. [39949/19]

View answer

Michael Moynihan

Question:

2. Deputy Michael Moynihan asked the Taoiseach if he has met or spoken to the leader of the DUP or the leader of Sinn Féin in Northern Ireland recently. [42305/19]

View answer

Michael Moynihan

Question:

3. Deputy Michael Moynihan asked the Taoiseach if he spoke to Ms Arlene Foster on 17 October 2019 before the EU Council meeting. [43558/19]

View answer

Oral answers (21 contributions)

I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 3 together.

I have had several recent engagements with the Northern Ireland political parties. Most recently, on 8 October, I spoke by telephone to Ms Naomi Long, leader of the Alliance Party. I also met with Ms Arlene Foster, MLA, leader of the DUP, in Government Buildings on Wednesday, 18 September. Previously, I met Ms Long, Mr. Doug Beattie of the Ulster Unionist Party and Deputy McDonald when I took part in the leaders' debate in Belfast on 6 August. The DUP and SDLP also participated. I last met Ms Michelle O'Neill in Dublin in June with the leader of Sinn Féin, Deputy McDonald. However, we spoke on the telephone last week. At each of the engagements, we discussed Brexit developments, the political situation in Northern Ireland and ongoing efforts to restore the power-sharing institutions. I emphasised the Government's full commitment to all aspects of the Good Friday Agreement. The Government wants to see an agreement in place to secure the operation of the devolved institutions and we will continue to engage with the British Government and the political parties in Northern Ireland, as the Tánaiste in particular has done regularly, to seek urgent progress in the period immediately ahead.

I do not believe anyone could question the fact that the political settlement in Northern Ireland is in a deep and sustained crisis. The failure to intervene to stop the various breakdowns and the decision not to intensify attempts to have the institutions restored in the past three years have caused immense damage. I have said time and again that the decision to collapse the Assembly and Executive was unforgivable. It betrayed the people of Northern Ireland and did not give them a voice at a critical time when there was an incredible threat to the future of the economic and social well-being of Northern Ireland. That, of course, was Brexit, which has added to the situation immeasurably. I hope the Taoiseach will join me in calling on people to tone down the rhetoric and examine the potential benefits to Northern Ireland in the context of Brexit and the arrangement being made of having access to the customs territories of both the European Union and the United Kingdom. In this context, will the Taoiseach detail what economic impact assessment has been carried out on the new arrangements for Northern Ireland and the new harder Brexit for Britain? Can we assume the Taoiseach has checked the economic projections of the move away from Ms Theresa May's deal? It needs to be said that the deal arrived at last week is worse than the withdrawal agreement of Ms May in terms of the relationship between the United Kingdom and the Republic. This is because it implies a harder Brexit in terms of the Tory Party and Mr. Boris Johnson wanting to take Britain out of the customs union and Single Market. All the independent economic analysis is suggesting this will cause significant medium- to longer-term damage to the Irish economy. There are many doubts and there is much detail yet to be worked out regarding how the arrangements for Northern Ireland will work out on the ground and in concrete reality. There was a real sense from Brussels last week that Europe was at the end of its tether. The European Union was happy to do the deal on the basis that it wanted to move on to other issues and avoid having no deal. What was arrived at last week is welcome from the point of view of avoiding no deal but there are very serious questions arising over the nature of it in terms of the harder Brexit that is now in store for us as a result of Mr. Johnson's intentions to take Britain out of the customs union.

Yesterday, two members of the British Government informed the House of Commons that measures for the imposition of direct rule in Northern Ireland had been prepared. This is again in the context of the proposed deal not being ratified by 31 October but it also appears to relate to the new Stormont restoration deadline, in late January. Can the Taoiseach indicate what discussions he has had with the British Government in the past two weeks on this matter? Has he made it clear that this kind of unilateral action on the part of the British represents a clear breach of its commitments to us and Northern Ireland in the overall peace settlement?

Regardless of the continuing political machinations in Westminster, Mr. Boris Johnson and the EU leaders have agreed on one fundamental principle, namely, that there can be no veto for unionists. While there is no such thing as a good Brexit — we have debated that here on many occasions and have collectively come to the same conclusion — and while the deal that was agreed last week between Britain and the European Union is not perfect, it does protect the island and its people from all the unimaginable consequences of a hard border. It respects the Good Friday Agreement and recognises the unique needs of the North economically and in terms of protecting peace.

With regard to the political institutions in the North, I want to be very clear. I will say this slowly for the benefit of people who really do need to hear it: Sinn Féin stands ready to govern; we simply need a willing partner in unionism. We have, as the Taoiseach will know, continually stated in public and private that the outstanding issues are resolvable but they do require intensive engagement on behalf of the DUP. I urge those who give out advice with regard to rhetoric to heed their own words.

As with everything in politics, where there is a will there is a way. Let no one in this Chamber be in any doubt that Sinn Féin has the will to get the political institutions back up and running. If the Members of this House were in any doubt that Sinn Féin is alone in the challenges it faces, I am sure their doubts were allayed when listening to the Alliance Party's rationale for not taking part in yesterday's faux sitting of the Assembly. Similarly, I am sure they also noted the SDLP Members entered the Assembly Chamber and very quickly walked back out. It was evidence, in itself, of why there can be no countenancing of a veto power for unionists on the Irish protocol, now or in the future.

We should take the opportunity to celebrate a major victory for women's rights and the LGBT community in the North.

It was the result of the decriminalisation of abortion and the changes that vindicated the right to marriage equality, which took place despite the bizarre attempts to block them by the dinosaurs - there is no other way of describing them - of the DUP and elements of unionism. That is a tribute to years and years of campaigning by people across the sectarian divide - Catholic, Protestant and people of no religion - fighting against a political establishment that has not sought to vindicate those rights. It is a demonstration of what real unity on this island can achieve. The move was significantly inspired by the repeal and the marriage equality movements in the South.

The DUP, which does not seek to restore the Assembly to deal with social welfare cuts, poverty or the housing crisis, has made a bizarre attempt to restore the Assembly in order to block equality for women and the LGBT community. We should celebrate what was a tremendous and historic victory despite the best efforts of the DUP. It has demonstrated what an odd bunch the DUP is and how out of touch it is with the new Ireland, North and South, Catholic and Protestant, that is emerging. This is something from which we should take hope and inspiration.

I thank the Deputies for their questions. Over the past two years, there have been several intense attempts to re-establish the institutions of the Good Friday Agreement; the Northern Ireland Assembly, the Northern Ireland Executive and, of course, the North-South Ministerial Council. The North-South bodies continue to operate, as with the British-Irish Council meeting regularly. It will meet again in Dublin; I will be hosting it in Dublin next month. The British-Irish Intergovernmental Council, BIIGC, has been operating periodically as well. However, those strand one and strand two bodies - the Assembly, the Executive and the North-South Ministerial Council - have not operated now for about 1,000 days. There have been several intense attempts to get them going again. The Tánaiste has been particularly engaged in that work. Indeed, he will be in Northern Ireland tomorrow again, having been there, I think, probably every week for the past two years. Obviously, I have done it at Head of Government level as well both with Prime Minister May and Prime Minister Johnson.

Ultimately, the way strand one works is that, to have the Assembly and Executive functioning, one needs the largest party of unionism and the largest party of nationalism on board at the same time. That, regrettably, has not been possible to date. We have come very close on occasion and were particularly close in February of this year. We are not going to give up. It is complicated by, first of all, Brexit and, second, the possibility of elections in Westminster, which may happen in the next couple of months, but we will keep at it.

Deputy Micheál Martin asked about the nature of the future relationship between the UK and the EU, including Ireland, and its impact on east-west trade. There are lots of different published projections as to what things would look like in different scenarios, but they are only-----

There are ESRI ones as well.

They are all consistent.

Yes, they are consistent, but they are only projections. What I would say is that, if this current agreement gets through, we will have certainty about North-South trade, in that there will not be any tariff on trade North-South and there will be no checks on trade North-South. However, it does not give us certainty on east-west trade. That is really important for our economy, particularly the agrifood sector. Even beyond that, trade between Ireland and Britain is really important to our economy and really important to jobs. I think the nature of that trading relationship between the UK and the European Union is still to play for.

There is a difference in stated policy between former Prime Minister May and Prime Minister Johnson. Former Prime Minister May used to talk about having a trading relationship between the EU and the UK that was as close as possible. Prime Minister Johnson talks more about divergence, talks more about a Canada-type arrangement.

It is worse than the withdrawal agreement.

Not exactly because-----

For east-west trade.

-----the withdrawal agreement that we had with former Prime Minister May provided for a temporary backstop as a bridge to a future relationship, but it did not provide for a future relationship.

It was a UK-wide customs union for a long time.

No. Only in the backstop, which was to be temporary, never to be used and to be an insurance policy. There was a single customs territory. It is not the case that the UK Government argued for, sought or had in the Theresa May agreement a customs union. That is not correct.

In her Chequers speech-----

She actively opposed a customs union, in fact. However, we do have a new joint political declaration on the future relationship. That was agreed last week. Hopefully, it will be agreed by the House of Commons when it is ready to do so. In that new revised political declaration, we talk about having tariff-free and quota-free trade between the EU, including Ireland, and the UK. We also talk about there being a level playing field. From my own conversations with Prime Minister Johnson, he is very much a free trader. He does want to have tariff-free and quota-free trade-----

Is that why he is pulling the UK out of the largest free trade agreement in the world?

-----between Britain and Ireland and between the UK and the EU. I think that, if we can get past this current phase, which is the withdrawal agreement phase, the future relationship in trading terms and economic terms between the EU, including Ireland, and the UK is all to play for. One of the things that, if I have the privilege to continue to hold this office, I want to negotiate in the next couple of years is that FTA, with Commissioner Hogan and Commission President von der Leyen. That future economic partnership, as they call it, FTA or whatever one wants to call it, would provide for tariff-free and quota-free trade between the UK and the European Union, with a level playing field on standards when it came to the environment, health and safety and labour rights. I think that is an objective that actually is achievable. That would be my objective if we got through this phase of Brexit.

One of the people who really put Brexit into perspective for me was Deputy Noonan. I remember him saying to me a week or two after the referendum that some people saw Brexit as a severe weather event, a storm that we needed to weather and get through. He said Brexit was not a storm or a severe weather event, but a permanent change in the relationship-----

We all said that.

-----between the UK and the EU and, therefore, between Ireland and the UK. It will never end.

This is just a phase. This phase is the withdrawal agreement phase, in which we want to protect citizens' rights, ensure a financial settlement that is fair and make sure that we do not have a hard border between North and South. I believe that we will have achieved that if the House of Commons and the European Parliament ratify this agreement, but then we will go on to the next phase, that is negotiating the future economic relationship, that FTA, with the UK. It will be my objective, if I am negotiating it, to try to secure tariff-free and quota-free trade with a level playing field. That is exactly the right thing for Irish business, for Irish jobs and also for workers, health and safety standards and environmental standards.

Just to finish up on these questions, we have had no - at least I have had no - discussions with the UK Government in the past two weeks on a direct rule, but the Government's position on that is as it always has been.

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