Dáil Éireann Debate, Wednesday - 23 October 2019
45. Deputy John Curran asked the Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection if she will review the means test qualifying criteria for carer’s allowance to include such costs as rent, mortgage payments and childcare costs; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [43421/19]
View answerThe system of social assistance supports administered by my Department, with the exception of children's allowance, provide payments based on income need. That is just how it has always been. That is not to say that should be applicable to people who are caring and that is why we need to have a proper conversation in the context of cross-party support and recognition of the valuable work done by carers. However, the premise of the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection is helping people who have an income deficit. The means test plays a critical role in determining whether an income need arises as a consequence of a particular contingency such as disability, unemployment or caring. This ensures that the recipient has a verifiable income need and that resources are targeted to those who need them most. These are increasing significantly and cannot continue to grow as they are year-on-year, which will lead to a financing problem. We must target payments to those who are most in need.
By its nature, the means test takes account of the income a person or couple has in terms of cash, property, other than the family home, and capital. It does not take account of a person’s expenditure. In line with most social assistance payments, deductions permitted for carer's allowance include PRSI, union dues, superannuation or pension contributions and travel expenses. Uniquely in the system, an income disregard of €332.50 per week or €665 for a couple applies to carer's allowance. That is much higher than any other means tests or disregards across the system.
Including costs such as housing and childcare would have significant budgetary implications and would give rise to inconsistencies in how means tests are applied across schemes. We were just not in a position to do it this year.
I did not ask the Minister to make the payment. I made the point that as practising public representatives, we regularly meet people who do not qualify for carer's allowance. This is often the case with women and one reason is that the husband is out working. The Minister referred to an income disregard and an income deficit. What is missing from the equation, which is a particularly significant issue for Dublin, is the cost of accommodation, whether it is a mortgage or rent. People are not able to give up the second job and live a normal life to do the caring. It is a massive burden. I did not ask the Minister to make the payment. All I am saying is that we recognise that there is a problem for some people accessing carer's allowance. The people I meet would traditionally have worked. Perhaps they might have qualified for carer's benefit had they been in work long enough. However, that payment runs out, after which they do not go onto carer's allowance. People are living longer, and that has consequences where someone is caring for an elderly relative. I seek a radical review of this system so that the carer's allowance does not only recognise an income deficit but also takes account of the expenses people have. People cannot turn on or off their mortgage or rent.
I realise I sound like a broken record. The disregards are set based on budgetary parameters. The means test is probably one of the most generous in our social welfare system and one of the most generous in the European Union. What if I do a review and tell the House it will cost €1.6 billion to ensure carers have no means test?
There is not a person in this room who has a magic wand to enable them to do that, even over successive Governments or budgets. We need to have a collective conversation on the matter and the Citizens' Assembly, which starts at the end of next month, is the perfect opportunity for that. It will enable us to stand up collectively with carers, whom we all speak to on a daily basis. I know a particular group of parents of incapacitated children who get absolutely nothing from my Department and that is not fair. These women will never even qualify for a pension unless I make changes and that is not fair either. There is a whole load of unfairness in this system that needs to be ironed out. We need to recognise and care for carers in the future but it needs to be done collectively, as a society. Whatever recommendations come out of the Citizens' Assembly need to be implemented by whoever is in government after the next election.
I hear the Minister's reply relating to the Citizens' Assembly but given the resources of the Department, I feel the Minister should be the one to conduct the analytical review that is required. There is an anomaly because the cost of living in Dublin, particularly around housing, for people who are renting or have a mortgage, and childcare is significantly higher. I meet constituents on a regular basis who do not qualify for carer's allowance, even though their circumstances are quite difficult and challenging. The husband may have a substantial income, but the mortgage they have was based on two people working and now they are on a single income and will not be able to continue the caring they do when the benefit runs out. I suggest that, without waiting for the Citizens' Assembly, the Department and the Minister conduct a review into widening the means test to take some account of the cost of living in Dublin.
I can probably ask the Department to come up with the metrics to tell us how much it would cost if we did this or that, and we could feed this information into the work of Catherine Day and the Citizens' Assembly as it would be very valuable for them to have it. We all have an enormous appetite to change the way we care for our carers, but it will come at a cost and the costs will have to be taken into consideration.
