Labour Employer Economic Forum

Dáil Éireann Debate, Tuesday - 21 July 2020

Tuesday, 21 July 2020

Questions (22)

Matt Shanahan

Question:

22. Deputy Matt Shanahan asked the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform if he will consider implementing a policy to allow an organisation (details supplied) to have a seat on the Labour Employer Economic Forum, LEEF; the steps he can take to remedy the lack of access for small and medium enterprises, SMEs, to Department of Finance officials in view of recent statements by representatives of SMEs at the Oireachtas Special Committee on Covid-19 Response in the future; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [15821/20]

Oral answers (4 contributions)

Deputy Matt Shanahan

Will the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform consider implementing a policy to allow the organisation, details of which have been supplied, to have a seat on the Labour Employer Economic Forum, LEEF, and the steps he can take to remedy the lack of access by small and medium-sized enterprise, SME, representatives to Department of Finance officials in view of recent statements by those representatives at the Oireachtas Special Committee on Covid-19 Response?

Deputy Patrick O'Donovan

I thank the Deputy. As he is aware, the Labour Employer Economic Forum, LEEF, was established to bring together representatives of employers and trade unions with Ministers to exchange views on economic and employment issues as they affect the labour market and which are of mutual concern.

The Government has not been prescriptive about what organisations have a seat at the LEEF but has left the decision to the lead representative bodies in the respective areas. The labour delegation is organised by the Irish Congress of Trade Unions and generally contains representatives from the Irish Congress of Trade Unions, Fórsa and the Nevin Economic Institute. The employer delegation is organised by IBEC and generally contains representatives from IBEC, Chambers Ireland and the Construction Industry Federation.

The Minister notes the strong programme for Government commitments to the broader question of social dialogue. As a Government, we are interested in new models of sectoral engagement and will utilise public consultations and citizens' assemblies, while strengthening existing mechanisms such as the national economic dialogue and the LEEF.

I will address the second part of the question, which relates to access for SMEs to Department of Finance officials. I have inquired with the Department of Finance and I am informed that officials engage with business representative bodies on an ongoing basis and have attended various events in this regard over the years. The most recent of these engagements was a meeting of the SME and State bodies group that was jointly chaired by the Tánaiste and the Minister for Finance on 10 July 2020, which was also attended by all the business representative groups as well as officials. This is a programme for Government commitment and is focusing on the challenges facing our SMEs as the economy reopens.

In addition, the Department of Finance conducts a survey of more than 1,500 SMEs, the largest of its kind in the country, on a biannual basis to understand issues facing SMEs, especially relating to access to credit and related matters. Finally, the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform also indicates that representatives of ISME have been invited to and attend the national economic dialogue every year since it started in 2015. All organisations are welcome to make pre-budget submissions to be considered as part of the budgetary process.

Deputy Matt Shanahan

I thank the Minister of State. He mentioned an engagement on 10 July but I spoke about a lack of engagement that has gone on for many months, and even longer than that. ISME represents approximately 700,000 employees, which is quite a large portion of our smaller employers. That group finds it very difficult to get any access and I referenced the unavailability of senior departmental officials to ISME representatives and hence smaller businesses. I point out that IBEC is a far larger grouping and a large number of its members would be considered larger employers with 40, 50 or more employees.

The people operating small businesses in this country need to have a voice on the LEEF. Some of the prescriptive arrangements to come from the LEEF, particularly with regard to employment law, taxation, etc., are forced on to smaller SMEs. They are entitled to have a voice and I hope the Government will facilitate that in the near future.

Deputy Patrick O'Donovan

I thank the Deputy. I will communicate his point to the Minister, Deputy Michael McGrath. I know it is a commitment by this Government, as it was with the previous Government, that SMEs would have access. I know the former Minister with responsibility for enterprise, Deputy Heather Humphreys, facilitated access and the current Tánaiste is doing so as well. My old role which involved dealing with procurement has been taken over by the Minister of State, Deputy Ossian Smyth, and I wish him well in his portfolio. Representatives of ISME had regular access both to me and senior officials in the Office of Government Procurement. A particular matter can be communicated either through my office or directly to the Minister, Deputy Michael McGrath. As I stated at the outset, both the labour and employer delegations were laid out by the Irish Congress of Trade Unions and IBEC, respectively. My understanding is that this is the normal practice. If there is a particular problem that Deputy Shanahan wants to raise but does not want to do it in the Dáil, I have no difficulty in referring it back to the Minister.