Dáil Éireann Debate, Thursday - 10 December 2020
77. Deputy David Cullinane asked the Minister for Health further to Parliamentary Question No. 84 of 3 November 2020, if an update will be provided on his plans for paying student nurses and midwives; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [42289/20]
View answerI am sure the Minister is aware that there is a strong campaign under way by student nurses and midwives for fair pay in respect of the work they do. I have heard the Minister state that he is committed to resolving this issue, but student nurses and midwives need more than words now; they need action. I have also heard the Minister say he is committed to a review. It must be ensured that this issue is not, as has been the case in the past, buried in reviews but that it is actually dealt with by the Minister. Will he outline what action he intends to take on this issue in the days and weeks to come in order to resolve it?
It is vital that student nurses and midwives complete their essential clinical placements in a safe environment and our senior nurses have gone to great lengths to ensure this is the case. I also recognise the potential hardship that might arise for students on placement due to Covid-19. Student nurses and midwives are not paid salaries for clinical placements in years 1 to 3, when they are supernumerary or additional to the existing workforce. This is the same across Europe in countries that have degree programmes for nursing and midwifery.
Student nurses and midwives do receive allowances, including an accommodation allowance up to €50.79 per week and a refund of travel expenses. They are the only clinical students who receive the allowance. Students are paid salaries of €21,729 or €22,229 in year 4 of their studies. Last week I wrote to nursing unions and advised of the supports made available in 2020 for student nurses and student midwives. These include access to the pandemic unemployment payment, PUP, for those student nurses and midwives who may have lost part-time employment due to Covid-19. This now includes nurses and students who had to give up their part-time jobs in nursing homes, for example, while on placement, in order to limit the potential for cross-contamination of Covid-19. As the jobs still existed, they could not previously access the PUP, but they now can. This is a specific exemption for nurses and midwives, for which I have secured Government approval and which is not available to anyone else.
I have also asked for a short, independent examination of the current travel and accommodation allowance in the context of Covid-19. I also believe a longer-term review of allowances and the fourth-year student salary is necessary and I have committed to that. My Department is engaging with the representative organisations on this matter, and if they give their agreement for the review, my intention is that any recommended increase in allowances related to Covid-19 would be in place in January, as requested by the representative bodies.
I spoke to the Irish Nurses and Midwives Organisation, INMO, yesterday. It is very concerned that what the Minister is considering is a short-term response. If something can be done in the context of Covid-19, that would be of some help. The Minister, however, can also resolve the issue in the medium to long term immediately as well. When the INMO hears about further reviews, it will hear the can being firmly kicked down the road.
In a response last week, the Minister's party, after voting against a motion in the Dáil, stated, "Student nurses in their final or pre-registration year are paid because they are different and do real work on wards that would not be done were it not for them". It is not just fourth years who do real work, however, so too do first-, second- and third-year student nurses. I received hundreds of emails from those people. I cannot read out all of them out in the short time I have, but I hope to read one out in the next round. The Minister must understand, however, that this is not just an emotive issue, this is an issue of justice and one which the Minister can resolve and which he should resolve. Rather than just commit to reviews, I ask that he please deal with this issue for these workers, because they deserve it and I think the Minister knows that.
Every Teachta deserves his or her time, so I ask that the time limit of one minute be observed.
Regarding the short-term review, we are conducting it because that is what the representative bodies asked for. We are finalising that review now. We are also looking at a longer-term review of student placements generally, but the representative bodies asked for very quick action. They asked that any Covid-19-related allowances, if there is to be an increase, would be in place by January. That is what they have asked for, and therefore that is what is being done.
On the payment of a wage, I will refer to what some educators have said. They are concerned about what looks like a push to turn a successful graduate degree profession into an apprenticeship model, which is the case in Germany and some other places around the world. Some comments included references to the fact that if student nurses and midwives are paid and treated as workers, they will not be exposed to the learning they need. It was also stated that they will be doing lower-skilled tasks and that this is not a degree education. It was further stated that it is important that people understand that placement of student nurses is the same as placement for any other clinical student or healthcare student and that what is being suggested by calls to pay student nurses will set the profession back 50 years. Very serious allegations regarding what is happening on the placements have been made. I assure the Deputy and the House that I am taking these deadly seriously. I have instigated a full review and I am meeting the directors of nursing this evening regarding this issue.
I think the Minister's response is disingenuous. We got a similar response from the Taoiseach in recent days. Let me be very clear that my party is certainly not looking for a return to the past or an apprenticeship programme. We are supporting the call from the INMO for fourth-year students to be paid the equivalent rate of a healthcare assistant and that there be a fair allowance for first-, second- and third-year students. One student who wrote to me commented that she was infuriated to read the statement from the Minister's party, which she referred to as an ignorant statement. She told me that since her initial placement as a student nurse in first year, she has provided care to many patients and that she knows for a fact that the wards would not function without the help of student nurses, regardless of what year they are in. There are hundreds of those student nurses, so I ask the Minister to not be disingenuous in responding to genuine concerns raised by my party and the INMO. We are not calling for a return to the past and we are not looking to go backwards. We are seeking fairness and a generous and fair allowance for those first-, second- and third-year student nurses.
It is a matter of record that a member of Deputy Cullinane's party asked me directly in a committee about the apprenticeship model and repeated analogies have been made to what apprentices are paid. The example of Australia has been raised in this House, which runs both an apprenticeship model and a degree programme. I assure Deputy Cullinane, therefore, that we are taking this issue very seriously. Two separate issues are being raised and we are addressing both.
The first falls primarily within my remit, and relates to whether students are being asked to do inappropriate practices while on placement. I take that deadly seriously. Neither I nor anyone in the Department has had any contact from the colleges regarding this in the past. I have checked.
I have instigated a formal review. If serious breaches are found, they will be dealt with because students are under the care of the HSE when on placement. We are taking this matter deadly seriously.
With regard to the allowance, if I understood the Deputy correctly, Sinn Féin is not looking for a wage for first, second and third years but it is looking for an appropriate allowance. I welcome and agree with that. To that end, we are doing two things. We are carrying out a short review at the request of the representative bodies to get the allowance in place in January at a time of Covid and we are considering a second review that would deal with the time after Covid.
