Dáil Éireann Debate, Thursday - 24 June 2021
96. Deputy Violet-Anne Wynne asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs the extent to which he will engage with Hungarian elected representatives in the wake of the legislation that was passed by the Hungarian Parliament on 15 June 2021 that is contrary to the LGBTQI+ policy advanced in the remainder of EU; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [33838/21]
View answer112. Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs the efforts of his Department to counter anti-LGBT laws such as those recently passed in Hungary and Poland; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [33875/21]
View answer141. Deputy John Brady asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs his views on and response to the recent passing of laws repressing LGBTQ rights in Hungary; the efforts he will take through the European Union as a consequence of this; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [33776/21]
View answer155. Deputy Bríd Smith asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs the actions the State will take as a result of the recent actions by the Hungarian Government in relation to LGBT rights; if he will express the solidarity of the State with the LGBT community in Hungary; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [33807/21]
View answer160. Deputy Mick Barry asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs the contacts he has with the Government of Hungary in relation to its recent passing of homophobic laws in that state; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [33876/21]
View answerWill the Minister outline the Government's response to the recent passing of laws that repress LGBTQ rights in Hungary? What efforts does the Government propose to take through the EU as a consequence of these measures?
I propose to take Questions Nos. 96, 112, 141, 155 and 160 together.
I hope the Acting Chairman will give a me a bit longer to answer this group of questions. I wish to address the five questions and I have quite a detailed answer, which I would like to put on the record, if that is okay.
Yes, we can give additional time.
Thank you. The rights of LGBTQI+ people are essential human rights and Ireland strongly advocates for their promotion and protection throughout the world, including in our relations with Hungary and Poland.
On 15 June, the Hungarian National Assembly passed a bill with the official title "Stricter measures against paedophile criminals and on amending legislation related to the protection of children". While ostensibly a child protection law, amendments added to the bill’s original text mean this proposed legislation provides for measures with disquieting and far-reaching negative implications for Hungary's LGBTQI+ community. The new law provides for restrictions on LGBTQI+ representation in media. There is also a de facto prohibition on talks on LGBTQI+ issues in schools and educational programmes. This means that only organisations approved by the minister of education will be able to provide such talks and school principals and teachers would need to secure special permission to undertake such lessons.
Such legislation has no place in the EU. It will lead to further marginalisation and stigmatisation of the LGBTQI+ community. Under Article 2 of the Treaty on European Union, the EU is founded on shared values, including human dignity, freedom, equality and respect for human rights, including the rights of persons belonging to minorities. This law is fundamentally at odds with these values and I urge the Hungarian Government to reconsider the decision to introduce this bill. At my meeting last month with the Hungarian foreign minister, I highlighted the importance of the EU demonstrating tolerance.
The Government has publicly expressed its deep concerns regarding the anti-LGBTQI+ aspects of this new law. At the most recent meeting of the General Affairs Council on 22 June, there was an Article 7 hearing on Hungary’s adherence to the EU values enshrined in Article 2 of the Treaty on European Union. Ireland actively participated in this hearing and the Minister of State, Deputy Byrne, firmly articulated Ireland's views on this issue as well as on issues related to the rule of law in Hungary. Ireland also supported a joint statement at the Council by the Benelux foreign ministers, which expressed grave concern at the law and its capacity to further stigmatise and endanger the safety of the LGBTQI+ community in Hungary.
The embassy of Ireland in Hungary has actively supported statements of concern made locally by like-minded partners and has registered deep concern about this law and its implications for equality and human rights. The embassy is also co-ordinating this year’s statement by embassies in Hungary supporting the Budapest Pride parade, which takes place on 24 July.
We also regularly raise our concerns on this issue with the Polish authorities. In particular, I have written to my Polish counterpart to set out the concerns that have been expressed by Irish people and by the large Polish community living in Ireland. I also underlined the shared commitments of Ireland and Poland to equality and non-discrimination as EU member states.
The embassy of Ireland in Warsaw undertakes a number of initiatives to demonstrate support for the LGBTQI+ community in Poland, including participating in the Warsaw Pride parade and actively engaging with civil society groups in Poland supporting the community. The ambassador also signs an annual open letter of support for efforts to raise public awareness of the issues affecting the LGBTQI+ community in Poland.
As I said at the outset, the rights of LGBTQI+ people are human rights. It is imperative that all member states continue to respect the values to which we have all signed up. Ireland will continue to work with our EU partners and others to constructively engage with Hungary and Poland on these important issues.
The swing towards the right in eastern Europe is worrying and we can all agree on this. We are moving towards the unfortunate re-imposition of repressive regimes of the past. Recently, Amnesty International described the new laws as an attempt by the Hungarian Government to spread hatred and we can also agree on this. The organisation has also claimed the Orbán Government is putting the lives of innocent people at risk of cruel political campaigns. The Orbán regime, which has ruled Hungary since 2010, has enacted a socially conservative policy agenda, shaping the EU member state into what he calls a bastion against liberal ideologies.
This legislation should not be taken in isolation. Last December, the Hungarian Parliament adopted a package of measures enshrining what is seen as the traditional family, effectively banning adoption by same-sex couples. In May 2020, a ban on legally changing one's gender came into force, with rights groups warning this would expose transgender Hungarians to discrimination. In 2018, a Government decree effectively banned universities from teaching courses on gender studies. This legislation should not be taken in isolation. We need to stand up to it but we also need to take serious measures to stop the spread of far right hatred, particularly in eastern European countries.
I welcome the statement of the Minister. It was robust. People Before Profit express our solidarity with the LGBT community not only in Hungary but across the world and in Ireland. Given that it is Pride week, it is very relevant. At one stage, people not only in Ireland were hounded, marginalised and put in situations where it was extremely difficult for them. In our organisation we hold solidarity against these particularly draconian laws, which are the anti-gay laws, in Hungary.
Orbán has history in this. He has introduced laws against immigrants and against workers to cause division. This is not in isolation. The far right in this country have tried to do the same to malign people of different sexual orientation. This should never be accepted and we stand shoulder to shoulder with the LGBT community in Hungary at this time.
I add my voice to the condemnation of what has been happening in Hungary and Poland recently. I encourage the Minister to keep up his work on highlighting our outrage at what has been happening. Last night, as I arrived back in Leinster House from here, the Pride flag was being shone on our Parliament Buildings. This is the position we need to maintain. We need to be a beacon for the rest of Europe and the rest of the world, that we stand in solidarity with those people who feel so marginalised by what has happened in Hungary and Poland.
I call out UEFA on its actions this week. It bottled it when it could have stood up and made its voice heard. It was a terrible shame it did not do so when it had the eyes of the world upon it and had an opportunity to support the LGBTQI+ community and did not do so. It should be reminded of this.
I join others in condemning where Hungary has gone on this. It is archaic and totally out of date. It goes against the grain of where western democracy has gone. I was born in 1982 and went through primary and secondary school in the 1990s. The standard back pocket slagging in the schoolyard was to throw a homophobic jibe at someone. How far we have come now with marriage equality and the openness of our society, and this has been embraced in most other European nations. This is where people have gone and, rightly, where society, the body politic and everyone has gone. We should do everything we can diplomatically to condemn the decisions Hungary is taking. As the previous speaker said with regard to UEFA, we need to stand with other nations in condemning this. We are all about embracing inclusivity. It is wonderful to see the Pride flags flying high in Dublin and elsewhere throughout the country this week.
I am really pleased to hear a united front in the Parliament on this issue but this is not about left and right. It is not about conservative views versus liberal views. It is about human rights. That is what this is about. This is why I agree with Deputy Griffin that UEFA showed cowardice on this issue.
It has done great work in terms of trying to stamp out racism in football, as indeed have many other sporting organisations. It is a natural extension of that to also be vocal around the need to protect and respect diversity and minorities in the context of sexual preferences and the LGBTQI+ community.
It was unfortunate. There was an opportunity for sport, while it was under the international spotlight, to make a clear statement on the need to protect minorities and express a concern about an EU country moving in a different direction. It decided not to do that because it regarded it as a political statement which should not be part of sport. Protecting people's human rights is not a political statement per se. It is what we are about in the European Union. It is the core of our value system. It is the foundation on which we have built this incredible peace, economic and environmental project, and all of the other things that the EU does together. It is what it is about.
There are certain core principles that we agree together to protect and enhance, not just within Europe but in other parts of the world. When one country is passing legislation that the rest of us feel is counter to that, we call it out. It does not mean that we do not have a good relationship with Hungary. It is part of a shared Union with us. We believe it is not acting in a way that is consistent with EU values on this issue, and we need to call it out.
As Members said, when we walk through Dublin during Pride month, we will see Pride flags everywhere. Buildings have promotional rainbow branding all over the place. Schools, businesses and Parliament buildings have flags because it is now part of who we are in terms of wanting to express nationally and internationally that we value minorities. We do not discriminate or isolate them in the way that they would have experienced in the past. We are public about that, and that is very much part of what the European Union should be about.
I welcome the comments. We will continue, in the appropriate way, to highlight our concerns and do what we can to try to force a rethink in the Hungarian Government in terms of its approach to this issue and from a Polish perspective also.
Do any of the Deputies want to come back in?
I welcome the Minister's strong comments in calling out UEFA and stating that it was cowardice on its behalf to fudge this issue and declare it as an issue of politics when, fundamentally, this is an issue of equality and human rights. I share the commentary with the Minister. It was cowardice. UEFA has missed an opportunity and has abdicated responsibility on this issue.
To get back to the issue in terms of Hungary and where we started with this conversation, there needs to be consequences for the draconian powers and legislation which the Hungarian Government has enacted. The European Commissioner for Equality, Ms Helena Dalli, said that the EU could impose funding restrictions on Hungary over this legislation. Can the Minister state whether that is something we would support? Could he expand on that? While the imposition of sanctions or financial restrictions on Hungary are important, that is only part of what needs to be done because the hate stoked up by politicians like Orbán needs to be tackled. We must do it by showing solidarity in this Parliament and standing together to face this down wherever it arises.
I commend Damien Duff and Richie Sadlier on their critique of UEFA's decision regarding the football match in Munich. We have all enjoyed football over the past seven days, but UEFA's decision was unforgivable and spineless in terms of standing up for human rights, as the Minister said. At this particular juncture, when people are coming together in football terms, it has shown a lack of solidarity for people who are trying to get basic human rights in Hungary.
Did Deputy Crowe want to come back in?
Alongside all of the rainbow flags we have seen over the past few weeks, there have also been some fabulous and inclusive slogans throughout Ireland. Two of them are "Love is Love" and "The Future is Equal". Imagine using the laws of a state to also hurt, criminalise and harangue those who seek to love someone of the same sex. By any metric, that is wrong and everything that can be done diplomatically to call it out should be done.
While we are on the issue of equality, it is reprehensible that there is a party in the North that would to try to prevent the equality of language in Northern Ireland. It is wrong. The DUP also tried to subvert and stop marriage equality in its jurisdiction. It is wrong and archaic, and is the politics of the past. The whole world has moved on and I thank the Minister for all of his positive statements in this regard.
I welcome what the Minister said about universal agreement across the House, which we rarely get. On this issue it is very encouraging to see. I also wish to acknowledge the Houses of the Oireachtas authorities for their work at this time. Members of the LGBTQI+ community have seen the Pride flag flying in the Parliament, and it will be in place over the weekend. It means an awful lot to people. In the context of the current situation in some countries in Europe, for us to that do that in our Parliament is very important and its importance cannot be overstated. I want to acknowledge the authorities of the House for doing that and being so progressive.
We have a shared view on this issue. It is strong. Over the past decade, in particular, Ireland has in many ways opened up a debate and discussion that has been inclusive, generous and progressive. We have an obligation to try to ensure that kind of inclusive discussion also happens in other parts of the world and, if necessary, other parts of the European Union so that people's concerns, anxieties and perspectives can change and they can get the reassurance they need to change their approach on this issue.
We need to talk to other EU countries and institutions around how the EU responds to the legislation that has been passed in Hungary. We also have to work to try to build a conversation of tolerance in countries that feel the need to pass legislation like this. In many ways, through our history we have managed to move to a much more generous and modern, tolerant and inclusive space and the country is the better for it. We should be encouraging a similar pathway for other countries that have yet to make that journey.
