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Proposed Legislation

Dáil Éireann Debate, Thursday - 1 July 2021

Thursday, 1 July 2021

Questions (111)

Joan Collins

Question:

111. Deputy Joan Collins asked the Minister for Social Protection if her Department has, in conjunction with the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, initiated the drawing up of anti-victimisation and blacklisting legislation within six months in line with the recommendation in the report of the Joint Committee on Social Protection, Community and Rural Development and the Islands entitled, Examination of Bogus Self-Employment, published on 16 June 2021; and if so, when this legislation will be published. [35331/21]

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Oral answers (6 contributions)

Has the Minister's Department, in conjunction with the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, initiated the drawing up of anti-victimisation and blacklisting legislation within six months in line with the recommendation in the report of the Joint Committee on Social Protection, Community and Rural Development and the Islands entitled, Examination of Bogus Self-Employment, published on 16 June 2021? If it has, when will this legislation be published?

I thank the Deputy for raising this important issue. I share the concern that employees should be correctly classified for social insurance, taxation and employment rights purposes and that they should be entitled to protection against victimisation if they challenge how an employer classifies them. While this latter question is primarily one for the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, I draw the Deputy's attention to the fact it is a criminal offence under section 252 of the Social Welfare Acts for an employer to knowingly and falsely classify a person as self-employed, subject to a penalty on conviction of up to three years imprisonment.

I note the publication of the June 2021 report on this issue of the Joint Committee on Social Protection, Community and Rural Development and the Islands. I am sure the Deputy knows that my officials provided information and assistance to both the previous and the current committees in their deliberations on this matter and that my Department's response to the committee's draft report is appended to its final report.

From the material provided, the Deputy will know that my Department takes the issue of false self-employment very seriously indeed. That is why it has established a dedicated investigation team, called the employment status investigation unit, to investigate employment arrangements across all sectors.

With regard to the committee's recommendations, they will require detailed and careful analysis and, as they issued just two weeks ago, it will take some time to form a view, to receive legal advice on their implications and, in addition, to consult affected stakeholders. I note the specific recommendation referred to by the Deputy crosses my Department and the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment. Any legislation arising will then need to be drafted and accommodated within what is already a busy legislative agenda.

The reason the committee put forward that the legislation should be brought in within six months is that, in December 2019, at the Joint Committee on Employment Affairs and Social Protection, Mr. Tim Duggan, assistant secretary of the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection said:

[L]egislative provisions are being developed to encourage workers to apply to scope section for clarity about their employment status. These are anti-victimisation measures that will allow workers to make a complaint to the WRC if they are victimised by employers because they sought a determination from scope section.

When he was pressed, he said:

There are some small difficulties with it, as the Senator highlighted earlier, but we are seeking to address them. That is definitively on the roadmap to progress that early in the new year.

Therefore, we were told by the assistant secretary in December 2019 that this was being progressed and was to come to the Dáil in 2020. I am asking for clarification. What is the current position?

I thank the Deputy. I intend to publish a code of practice on employment status. The purpose of the code of practice on determining employment status is to explain, in as clear and as user-friendly a way as possible, what the courts have decided constitutes an employment relationship. It is an explanatory guide and it sets out and explains the legal obligations that already exist. Workers and employers are entirely bound by these legal obligations and, even if the code did not exist, they would be bound by these legal obligations because they have been set down by the courts through case law.

The code is an important awareness-raising tool in the effort to combat false self-employment in the economy. It was first drafted in 2001 and revised in 2007. However, as the labour market and relevant case law have developed since then, a revision is now needed. The work of revising the code was undertaken by my Department, Revenue and the Workplace Relations Commission, so there are three players in this. The Deputy referred to a meeting of the joint committee. Putting this into legislation is tricky and is not as straightforward as it might appear.

That was made clear by Mr. Duggan in December 2019, when he indicated clearly that the process had started, that there were a few small issues to be addressed and that it would be published in 2020. It is now June 2021. The reason we put a period of six months in the report was to give a bit of impetus to the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment and, we hoped, the Department of Social Protection. We know from the committee, where we heard from various employee representatives and groups, that many workers fear engaging with the scope section for fear they will be blacklisted and denied work in their respective industries in the future. I know from people in the film industry that they have been blacklisted because they have challenged the way they work in the context of bogus self-employment. Can the Minister confirm that we will get legislation in the next six months?

I thank the Deputy. False self-employment is a problem that the Department of Social Protection takes very seriously. We want to make sure that employees receive their proper PRSI contributions so they get their entitlements, and that is our focused role. Revenue looks at it from a tax perspective and the Workplace Relations Commission looks at it in terms of workers’ rights.

The scale of false self-employment is probably exaggerated by some commentators. Research and statistics over the past 20 years indicate that levels of self-employment in the State have remained more or less constant and are not rising. We have an inspection unit which goes on-site and we have had a number of inspections. In fact, it is my plan to increase the resources of the inspection unit so we see what is happening on the ground. If it is taking place, we want it to stop. There are fines in place and we will implement them.

With regard to legislation or the suggestions that came from the committee, we will certainly look at those. However, bringing legislation into this space could actually create more problems than it solves. I am treading cautiously, to be honest with the Deputy.

Question No. 112 replied to with Written Answers.
Question No. 113 answered with Question No. 108.
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