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Arts Policy

Dáil Éireann Debate, Tuesday - 5 October 2021

Tuesday, 5 October 2021

Questions (8, 49, 63)

Dara Calleary

Question:

8. Deputy Dara Calleary asked the Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media the status of the basic income guarantee pilot scheme for the arts; when the scheme will commence; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [47919/21]

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Gary Gannon

Question:

49. Deputy Gary Gannon asked the Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media the status of the pilot project for universal basic income for artists; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [47954/21]

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Catherine Connolly

Question:

63. Deputy Catherine Connolly asked the Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media the status of the basic income pilot for artists; the timeline for when the details of the pilot scheme will be finalised; the number of times the oversight group tasked with examining the manner in which the pilot scheme will be delivered has met to date; the membership of the oversight group; if the oversight group has produced any interim reports to date; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [48012/21]

View answer

Oral answers (10 contributions)

There is always a follow-up. There is no such thing as a free compliment, as the Minister will discover.

The Minister has somewhat covered this question in one of her previous answers. I am asking it on behalf of my colleague, Deputy Calleary, but it is a subject close to me and to many Deputies and especially my constituents in Dublin South-West. It concerns the basic income guarantee pilot scheme for arts and when it will commence. Will the Minister make a statement on that?

I propose to take Questions Nos. 8, 49 and 63 together.

I am critically aware of the devastating impact Covid-19 has had on all areas of the arts and cultural sector and have endeavoured to make sure the concerns of those in this sector have been understood and addressed. I have met with numerous representative organisations and officials in my Department have continued contact with these organisations and others on a regular basis, throughout the pandemic, to confirm I had the most up-to-date information to ensure appropriate supports were delivered for the sector. This includes stakeholder forums in August and September where I spoke directly to a wide range of stakeholders and heard their concerns.

With regard to the basic income guarantee pilot, the arts and culture recovery task force report, Life Worth Living, was published in November 2020 and made ten recommendations for the sector. These recommendations included a proposal to pilot a basic income scheme for a three-year period in the arts, culture, audio-visual and live performance and events sectors. The delivery of this pilot will be key to underpinning the recovery in the arts and culture sector and will provide much-needed certainty to the artists and creatives who choose to avail of the pilot scheme.

The Life Worth Living report describes a basic income as an unconditional State payment each citizen receives - in this instance, for the arts and cultural sector. The introduction of such a basic income pilot would create a more stable social protection mechanism to allow artists and workers to sustain themselves during the pandemic. It should keep the sector intact, minimising the loss of skills and contributing to its gradual regrowth, with ongoing social and economic, local and national benefits.

I fully agree the arts sector represents a very appropriate area for a basic income guarantee scheme for many reasons, including that it is often being characterised by low and precarious income; it includes a broad mix of employment types; and it has been chosen for basic income pilots in other jurisdictions, allowing for international comparisons to be drawn.

I was delighted that as part of the national economic recovery plan, I secured a commitment from Government to prioritise the development of a basic income guarantee pilot scheme for the arts and cultural sector.

As Minister with responsibility for arts and culture, I am conscious of the value this sector brings to all citizens, which was especially evident during the pandemic. The importance of Irish culture, Irish art and Irish productions as a whole cannot be understated in its impact both internationally and at home. The Government recognises that bold steps are necessary for our much-treasured arts, events and cultural community to come back stronger than ever before.

I established the oversight group in June to appraise the recommendations in the Life Worth Living report. Although the remit of the oversight group included the examination of all recommendations in the report, I asked they prioritise the consideration of the recommendation of a basic income guarantee pilot scheme for artists and arts workers. The oversight group is chaired by my Department and joined by representatives of the Departments of Finance; Social Protection; Housing, Local Government and Heritage; Public Expenditure and Reform; and Enterprise, Trade and Employment. The directors of the Arts Council and Screen Ireland are also members, alongside a representative of the County and City Management Association.

The oversight group has met eight times over the past four months to discuss the basic income recommendation, alongside the other nine recommendations. To assist in these discussions, the oversight group established a subcommittee to focus solely on the progression of the recommendation for the basic income pilot scheme. This subcommittee met nine times over the summer months to develop a number of options that could fulfil the requirements of a pilot scheme as set out in the Life Worth Living report. The oversight group, with the research carried out by this subcommittee, has provided me with a preliminary report on the different options for a three-year pilot scheme, which I am currently considering.

A number of organisations have given presentations to the oversight committee to inform its considerations. These include the National Campaign for the Arts; Social Justice Ireland; Praxis, the artists' union; Dr. Stephen Kinsella, economist in University Limerick; and Dr. Niamh NicGhabhann and Dr. Annmarie Ryan, who have done research in the area of artist basic income. In addition, Equity, the actors' union is due to present to the group next week.

The objectives of the pilot scheme will include: minimising the ongoing loss of skills in the arts sector with regard both to artists and arts workers; contributing to the sector's post-pandemic recovery with ongoing social, economic, local and national benefits; and enabling artists to focus on their practice without having to enter into employment in other sectors to sustain themselves.

It is particularly important for this pilot scheme to also address the well-being of those in the arts and cultural sector, and to stimulate the arts sector’s recovery post-pandemic. I will be providing further detail on how this pilot scheme will operate in the near future as part of the discussions around budget 2022. Significant stakeholder engagement will take place in the coming weeks between my Department and those in the sector to ensure this pilot meets the needs of the sector alongside the objectives agreed by the oversight group. I envision that this pilot should launch in early 2022 and I believe it will bring new life and support to the arts and cultural sector, after the difficult circumstances it has endured over the last year and a half.

As far as I am concerned, the Minister has left few questions to be asked. The fact that a number of us submitted questions gave her ample time to give us that answer. I am taken with the Minister's response. I completely trust her on this issue. She has touched on every possible point there, from stakeholder involvement, to various different models of pay that might be considered, to the need that she recognises for a universal basic income. This is what motivated Deputy Calleary to ask the question. The Minister has demonstrated a sensitivity and an empathy in her answer. Anybody who seeks to be able to take advantage of a universal basic income, UBI, when it emerges, can know that it is in safe, capable and, as I said, empathic hands. The Minister clearly wants to deliver this.

The Minister mentioned 2022. When might we see an artist, or anybody involved in this walk of life, being able to draw down such a basic income?

Similarly, I am taken with the Minister’s response. I appreciate the work she has done in this area. This would be an extraordinarily welcome development. A basic income scheme for our artists will allow them to be just that - artists. They will be able to be creative. The basic income will be an investment into the work they will produce, and all that will bring with it.

The Minister mentioned early 2022. Should we assume that the date will be in January? I would be interested to know the types of figures we are talking about and what artist would be paid by way of the basic payment. I appreciate the work the Minister has done to bring it to this point. It is a Rubicon that we will cross in terms of appreciating our artists. It will be a legacy that will long surpass the Government and I congratulate the Minister.

I, too, appreciate the Minister’s comprehensive answer and that she acknowledged that the arts sector represents an appropriate area for a basic income guarantee, because of the precariousness of the employment, that it includes a broad range of employment types and that the basic income has been successful in Finland, Germany, Canada, and France.

The Minister has answered some of my questions, such as how many meetings have been held, and so on. However, I am troubled about what was published. The Pathways to Work Strategy 2021-2025 was published in July 2021. It proposes a working age payment and a basic income guarantee in the arts sector, which is good. However, as proposed, it is along the lines of the working family payment, which is means tested and is not universal. Could the Minister tell me what contact she has had with the Department of Social Protection? I know the Department is on the oversight board. However, the Minister and the Department seem to be going down two different paths, but maybe I am wrong. Could the Minister clarify that?

I believe that with this pilot and this commitment and by delivering the number one recommendation, we as a country have an opportunity to lead. In earlier questions I mentioned how we really value and the arts. I see this opportunity, so I am grabbing it. That is why we had so many meetings over the summer. The pilot scheme we are working on relates to the commitment in the National Economic Recovery Plan 2021. That is what I am committed to. There may have been confusion in the wording in the Pathways to Work Strategy 2021-2025. As the Deputy said, the Department of Social Protection is on the oversight group. I am working on what was sought in its task force report last year.

On the timeframe, I said early 2022. If I could have done it yesterday, I would have done it, but it will take time. I am aiming for 1 January 2022, but I do not know if it will be that date. However, it will be as early as possible. I am committed to that. As soon as it can be done, we will do it. We are doing something different and unprecedented, so I want to make sure that we do it properly.

The thought that comes to mind is that Fianna Fáil has a proud tradition in this area, of which the Minister will be aware. Charles Haughey was remembered for the tax exemptions for artists. These kinds of measures do not even happen once in a generation. These kinds of measures skip generations from time to time. The Minister now has a heavy burden on her shoulders. I do not think that we are bigging this up. We have a sense of what we hope that she will be able to deliver. The Minister will be making an impact and a statement, in particular about how Ireland views its artists. Artists can be a vulnerable community of people, whether they are writers, painters or musicians. It can be a vulnerable craft. Artists were particularly vulnerable during Covid-19. I wish the Minister well in this regard. I hope that she keeps the House updated. We look forward to the matter coming to a conclusion.

Again, I acknowledge the Minister’s work and commitment to this issue. In addition to being the Social Democrats' spokesperson on the arts, I am also its spokesperson on social protection. I do not necessarily share the Minister's the same level of regard for the way that Department has operated. The scheme will be innovative and new. I hope it will be operated on the basis of trust. I hope we give the payment to the artist without subjecting them to the type of scrutiny that, for example, one-parent families currently receive from the Department of Social Protection. Let us make this initiative one that demonstrates trust in our systems, by paying our artists. For me, that would be the most important thing about how the initiative will operate.

I do not think I heard the date in January that the scheme would begin. Maybe I missed that. I am going back again to my earlier question. I am concerned, but I am not confused. I do not know where the confusion is, but there is confusion. The Pathways to Work Strategy 2021-2025, which was published in July 2021, proposed a pilot with a working age-based payment, or basic income guarantee in the arts sector, which would be modelled on the working family payment, WFP. The Minister mentioned that Social Justice Ireland, among other organisations, made a presentation to her. Social Justice Ireland points out that the working family payment model has utterly failed to reach its objectives. The WFP is also limited in time. While I am delighted with the answer the Minister has given, I am a little concerned by the confusion within Government and, certainly, within the Department of Social Protection. Can the Minister confirm that she will not use the WFP model and that the Department of Social Protection is exploring that model in parallel? Is that right, or is it not right? I am quoting verbatim from the strategy.

I can confirm that I am looking at the recommendation in the task force report from last year. The oversight group presented a number of options to me. I will make my decision based on the option that I think is best for the arts sector. I cannot give any more detail than that. The Deputy will appreciate that this information is sensitive. It is also part of the budget negotiations. With the greatest of respect, I ask the Deputy to give me some time. It is at a crucial stage.

On the Deputy's question on the date, I did not give a specific date, because I cannot give one. All I can say is that the desire is there for it to be as early as possible in the new year. However, I must have everything over the line with the budget negotiations. I need to consult with the sector to make sure that it is happy with the decision I take on the options the oversight group has presented to me. To me, engagement is key here. It is how I operate as a Minister. Therefore, I will not just decide, but I will go back to the sector to engage with it.

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